Tour de France 2011 route

[Andrija]

On Tuesday the route will be announced.
Next year is centenary of the Alps in the race. Galibier should take Tourmalet's role next year and Alpe d' Huez is expected to feature twice.
A middle-length team time trial and two long individual time trials are format which dominated during Armstrong's rule, and could make next year's Tour very exciting if (as is expected) Contador doesn't start the race.

Inside Cycling with John Wilcockson: Two times up the Alpe in the 2011 Tour de France? - VeloNews

I'm sure this prediction won't be 100% accurate, and hope for some surprising stages in shape of uphill TT or something similar to stage 3 of this year's Tour (only in Brittany), but it looks pretty sensible.

 

[Andrija]

The VeloNews prediction was pretty accurate in general.

http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/us/le_parcours.html

My first impression is that with Contador this edition would be more exciting than without him.
Although it looks tailor made for Schleck, other climbers will be satisfied too.
Even without Contador, Schleck could have hard task.

TTT will definitely bring some advantage to stronger teams, but not so huge that would eliminate opponents for GC in weaker teams.
Brittany stages could start the process of GC sorting with windy conditions and Mûr-de-Bretagne.
Then, if Massif Central doesn't eliminate anyone it will tire some legs before decisive mountains.
Four very hard mountain-top finishes, combined with climbs preceding them, are definitely climbers' route.
I'm not sure if the last time trial will effect the GC.

I think the audience can be satisfied with the route.

 

[swampy1970]

The Massif Central will be tough. Super-Besse will be an early indication of who has the legs for the real mountains that follow - it'll weed out the weaker contenders rather than cause a big split amongst those on form and gunning for the overall.

The Pyrenees. Two big mountain top finishes after a good hard route. Shame than the mid-stage of this section is a bit weak.

The Alps. While the Galibier mountain top stage may surpass the Col du Grannon as the highest finish in Tour history it's not all that hard from the Col de Lautret side. The Grannon is an absolute beast and I was hopeful that they'd included it when the stage finish was listed as Sierre Chevalier. The last few kms of the Galibier are a bit tough but nothing out of the ordinary. The last Alpine stage, which is nothing more than a 100km 'sprint' up the Galibier from the much harder side and up Alpe D'Huez could well be a firecracker - it could be that someone digs deep at the start on the Telegraphe or turns the Telegraphe and Galibier into a war of attrition. Maybe someone has a "pair" the size of watermelons and descends like an idiot through the tunnels on the Lauteret on the way to the Alpe or the final selection could come on the Alpe itself.

This Tour has Schleck written all over it - but don't count out something silly like the charges against Contador being dropped. Andy and Alberto were so far above everyone else at the last Tour it was just silly. The only other guy that I think could get close is Rassmuchicken if he gets on team that'll get a Tour entry - there's enough hard climbing at the end of stages that stickman could do really well even if not on top form. Basso/Nibali could be in with a chance if they skip the Giro but I can't see that happening. Pelezotti - his case probably won't be resolved by then, so the only place he'll be riding is down to the local women's salon for a new perm.

 

[Andrija]

I like composition of Galibier - Alpe d' Huez - Grenoble tt stages.
It's brutal, all day long ride to Galibier, then there's sprint, as you said, to Alpe d' Huez which will start later, giving opportunity for recovery and fast, intense, racing right from the start of the stage, and there's tt which will start at about the same time as the previous stage demanding same racing intensity. Rider tuned for that rhythm will get most out of these stages.
The stage to Alpe d' Huez should be ideal for broadcast. It will start at around 3 PM (CET), last less than 3 hours, with nothing but action and beautiful scenery.

I'm not sure if I want to see Contador next year in the race. No doubt it would be more exciting with him, and it looks like the course is designed with Contador - Schleck battle idea, but he made mistake and should rest for a year at least.
I hope Basso, Gesink, Van den Broeck, Sanchez and others can make up Contador's absence.
Basso or Nibali will target the Tour, and biggest threat to Schleck should come from Liquigas. Basso from 2010 (and 2006) Giro could beat Schleck on this kind of route, or at least give him hard time. Nibali is strong option too, and I'd like to see him (targeting the Tour) rather than Basso. It's time for this generation of riders to completely take over the stage. The scene for coming decade has to be set.

 

[slovakguy]

just one more year and the puy de dom should be back. just one more year.

 

[Andrija]

Originally Posted by slovakguy .

just one more year and the puy de dom should be back. just one more year.

Do you think it will be passable for TDF caravan?
It would be great addition to the race with it's position, difficulty and scenery, but I doubt.
It's good news for all cyclists, though.

 

[Yojimbo_]

Does the route really matter that much? We all know what's going to happen.

Flat stages will be a bunch sprint unless the break away is misjudged.

Nothing will happen in the mountain stages until the last maybe 20 minutes of the race at which point the real contenders will pick up the pace a little and drop the other 5 or 10 guys they've been riding with. None of the contenders will do anything on the earlier climbs.

 

[Andrija]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo_ .

Does the route really matter that much? We all know what's going to happen.

Flat stages will be a bunch sprint unless the break away is misjudged.

Nothing will happen in the mountain stages until the last maybe 20 minutes of the race at which point the real contenders will pick up the pace a little and drop the other 5 or 10 guys they've been riding with. None of the contenders will do anything on the earlier climbs.

Well... Then you don't need to follow cycling at all.
In addition I can tell you that in classics, winning breakaway forms in last 50 kilometers, and from that point two outcomes are possible - bunch sprint or successful solo attack.

What's the matter with you? Who took the jam out of your doughnut?
You really are a hedgehog.

 

[slovakguy]

Originally Posted by Andrija .




Do you think it will be passable for TDF caravan?
It would be great addition to the race with it's position, difficulty and scenery, but I doubt.
It's good news for all cyclists, though.

to tell the truth, i'm not really concerned if carrefour can toss souvies to the crowd on the way to the top. with the tour doing the centenary tributes to the mountains and the puy's road work exclusion from the tour, i have my fingers crossed that prudhomme includes it as soon as it is available for those very cycling fans to whom you refer. as a side note, prudhomme has done a good job of getting the logistics of a mountaintop finish sorted out which satisfy the racing fan, the broadcasters and tour sponsors.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by slovakguy .

just one more year and the puy de dom should be back. just one more year.

Nah.

The Puy de Dome is at the mercy of the local tightwad town. The last few times it's been a bit of a let down in the Tour. The last really newsworthy event that happened on that hill was Merckx being smashed in his kidneys... unless you call LeMond finally gapping Hinault in the 86 Tour newsworthy.

Probably the most famous of shenanigans on the Puy: Dualing elbows - The Enternal Second and Anquetil

 

[Yojimbo_]

Originally Posted by Andrija .



Well... Then you don't need to follow cycling at all.
In addition I can tell you that in classics, winning breakaway forms in last 50 kilometers, and from that point two outcomes are possible - bunch sprint or successful solo attack.

What's the matter with you? Who took the jam out of your doughnut?
You really are a hedgehog.

I've been watching this race for years and it's the same every year regardless of the route - there is very little excitement. That's why I think the route doesn't matter at all.

But I do enjoy watching it and I'll continue to do so.

 

[Scotttri]

Hopefully it's a close race and Schleck doesn't have it all his way. There's some really interesting stages there. Should be good viewing

 

[slovakguy]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .



Nah.

The Puy de Dome is at the mercy of the local tightwad town. The last few times it's been a bit of a let down in the Tour. The last really newsworthy event that happened on that hill was Merckx being smashed in his kidneys... unless you call LeMond finally gapping Hinault in the 86 Tour newsworthy.

not to put too fine a point on it, but were we to exclude climbs because they have been more a damp squib than the fireworks we hoped, then the tourmalet and the ventoux from two years ago would have warranted exclusion for this year's and future editions. what i have to trust is that prudhomme has learnt his lesson about how to showcase the climb/stage with a mountaintop finish (as with mende) or, hopefully, a nice week two itt up the puy (although what a thought to have them do an itt down the slopes just to **** an eyebrow and show how poor some riders are at descending--a. schleck & rasmussen do come to mind--[this position is in jest. i say again, i jest with this idea.]) to give the peloton a bit of work for week three.

given what prudhomme has done, i have to think he's refined his practice of placing a jewel on each of the three weeks to keep the race of interest even if he gets no co-operation from the hyperstrategy from the ds's and their attempts at not losing a race instead of their actually trying to win the race.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by slovakguy .




not to put too fine a point on it, but were we to exclude climbs because they have been more a damp squib than the fireworks we hoped, then the tourmalet and the ventoux from two years ago would have warranted exclusion for this year's and future editions. what i have to trust is that prudhomme has learnt his lesson about how to showcase the climb/stage with a mountaintop finish (as with mende) or, hopefully, a nice week two itt up the puy (although what a thought to have them do an itt down the slopes just to **** an eyebrow and show how poor some riders are at descending--a. schleck & rasmussen do come to mind--[this position is in jest. i say again, i jest with this idea.]) to give the peloton a bit of work for week three.

given what prudhomme has done, i have to think he's refined his practice of placing a jewel on each of the three weeks to keep the race of interest even if he gets no co-operation from the hyperstrategy from the ds's and their attempts at not losing a race instead of their actually trying to win the race.

Way to miss the point, bucko.

It might have had a couple of special moments on the hill but it's surrounded by less than challenging countryside and nothing of note really close either. Back in the 60's and early 70's when the top guys would have a go at each other from 100 miles out maybe, these days... not gonna happen. There's only about 4km of hard stuff - you might see a minute split between some of the top guys but the Contador/Schleck/Ricco/Rassmuchicken crew are all gonna be in there at about the same time.

You could say the same thing about the Ventoux but the Ventoux is fecking huge but the last time it was used there were several easy days before hand. It really needed 3 days in the Alps or Pyrensees and one or two really really long days - say 260Km+ in the heat before that stage.

 

[pennstater]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .




Way to miss the point, bucko.

It might have had a couple of special moments on the hill but it's surrounded by less than challenging countryside and nothing of note really close either. Back in the 60's and early 70's when the top guys would have a go at each other from 100 miles out maybe, these days... not gonna happen. There's only about 4km of hard stuff - you might see a minute split between some of the top guys but the Contador/Schleck/Ricco/Rassmuchicken crew are all gonna be in there at about the same time.

You could say the same thing about the Ventoux but the Ventoux is fecking huge but the last time it was used there were several easy days before hand. It really needed 3 days in the Alps or Pyrensees and one or two really really long days - say 260Km+ in the heat before that stage.

Agreed, but I'm not saying fireworks can't happen 100k from the finish, and I certainly wish they will... Probably not....

The time trialing for the race is still designed for a climber ( 1 TT and a long ITT), I can see some Liquigas boys winning this TDF (pick either).

 

[slovakguy]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .




Way to miss the point, bucko.

It might have had a couple of special moments on the hill but it's surrounded by less than challenging countryside and nothing of note really close either. Back in the 60's and early 70's when the top guys would have a go at each other from 100 miles out maybe, these days... not gonna happen. There's only about 4km of hard stuff - you might see a minute split between some of the top guys but the Contador/Schleck/Ricco/Rassmuchicken crew are all gonna be in there at about the same time.

You could say the same thing about the Ventoux but the Ventoux is fecking huge but the last time it was used there were several easy days before hand. It really needed 3 days in the Alps or Pyrensees and one or two really really long days - say 260Km+ in the heat before that stage.

you realise you have only made these points in this point? in the post i replied to, you doubted the puy would feature because of a "tightwad" town and then mentioned two or three events which have made the puy's reputation. so you can understand why it was easy to have missed your real point for excluding the puy when you've only just made it.

but you do raise some interesting points. route, position of the stage in the tour as a whole, and, most importantly in my opinion, how the racers themselves behave on the the stage all factor in on the success of a stage. and one must admit prudhomme has been tinkering with stages that bring about gaps of seconds between the contenders at the top (contador, schleck, et.al you mentioned) and put minutes on those who will not have a real chance at victory. more to the point, prudhomme has shown that he understands the type of climbs suits different riders (evidenced this year with ramps which suited contador and those climbs which suited schleck).

as for your final point concerning ventoux, i really hope your tongue is in cheek or one would have to say you have little concern for the athletes' well being, subjecting them to multiple days in the southern heat, putting them over 260+ k's, and then making them have a go at ventoux all for the sake of having what? hour gaps between riders at the front and hearses for those at the rear? in all honesty, you are trying to incite some controversy between us because you don't think the puy worthy of inclusion on the route.