Tour Tech



On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:18:29 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>But remember that the riders themselves need radios and chalkboards
>held up by motorcycle passengers to know what's going on.


That's very normal in a bike race with 150 guys. It's normal in
almost any bike race -- even with just 50 guys.

After almost any mass start race -- even local events of hobby racers
-- if you ask several different participants what happened in the
event and you'll get profoundly different answers. That's the nature
of the sport -- it's inherently complex due to consisting of multipe
participants on many sides (and not just two opponents or two teams).

JT


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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:18:29 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Despite the bombast, the boasting, and the keen sense of well-informed
>appreciation, few posters would watch even 4 straight hours of the
>Tour with the sound turned off, much less 80+ hours.


Perhaps. But I prefer to judge sport on the experience as a
participant, and I'd be very happy to participate in an event of that
nature if I was capable of it.

And for sure I'm in local races all the time that aren't particularly
interesting to most observers but are very satisfying or exciting to
be in. A lot of people who race feel that way.

The spectator/TV aspect is just a bonus.

Here is a page on a website in my town that every weekend has
participants re-cap their own experience in the races:
http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=903

We find it very interesting. We were there. It also does some
commentary on big pro races that I never read myself but think other
people do.

JT


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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:18:29 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>> "The Giro seemed endless, and yet it is over. ... It was
>>a difficult Giro d'Italia: it gave us some days of boredom;
>>other days, it is undeniable, of profound dejection; but
>>there were also moments of unforgettable emotion;
>>and even we, who are hardened by professional routine,
>>experienced hours of elation, almost as great as that
>>of the fans on the Pordoi, Abetone and Ghisallo. Many
>>times we cried out for it to end, but now that it has ended,
>>we're sorry that it's over; now that it's gone, we miss it.
>> "How many kilometers in tomorrow's stage? There is
>>no stage tomorrow. A real shame!"
>>
>>(from Dino Buzzati, "The Giro d'Italia: Coppi vs Bartali at
>>the 1949 Tour of Italy")

>
>Dear Ben,
>
>Enjoy the spectacle.
>
>Revel in the details from the television, newspaper, and internet.
>
>But remember that the riders themselves need radios and chalkboards
>held up by motorcycle passengers to know what's going on.
>
>For non-competitors, the further away we are from the Tour, the more
>we think we know about it.


Distance does lend perspective. As your next example makes clear.

>If you were just standing at the finish line on Day 9, watching half
>the Tour flash past in a pack tight enough to receive the same time,
>what could you really say was happening without referring to radio,
>tv, loudspeakers, or notes?
>
>Day 9: first 84 of 170 riders awarded same finishing time:
>http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10331.0.html


But they arent' the same riders that had the same finishing time the day before
and they aren't the same as will finish together tomorrow. It is a subtle game,
but no more difficult to follow than NASCAR, which it resembles more than many
fans would want to admit.

>Many of us enjoy the Tour, but it's fair to say that a great deal of
>what we enjoy is what we're told we're seeing by commentators, not
>what we see.


Hmmmm. Maybe this is important.

The TdF was created for and presented by written word in a newspaper. For
generations fans knew only what was written and what was written was often
brilliant. Literature with a capital "L," even. It begs to be described. It
demands and inspires comment.

Over In RBR (and even in venues not populated by dumbasses) people write and
read over and over in detail what was seen and what was done, even when all have
watched it themselves in whatever detail modern sports television can provide.
There is more to it than can be seen. And much of it that can be related with so
few words. It's no harder to follow the tour in print than it is for a baseball
fan to recreate a game from the box score. Neither has the precision of chess
notation, but it tells enough to let the mind fill in the rest.


>The commentators, of course, are often viciously criticized and
>dismissed as incompetent idiots here on RBT and on RBR. Snarling at
>the commentators makes some people feel superior. Since the
>commentators are paid for their work and ignore newsgroups, I suppose
>it's harmless, but I often think that it would be fun to have the
>critics try to provide 4 hours of unrehearsed coverage.


That would be cruel. Deserved and just, but cruel.

>Despite the bombast, the boasting, and the keen sense of well-informed
>appreciation, few posters would watch even 4 straight hours of the
>Tour with the sound turned off, much less 80+ hours. The typical
>action consists chiefly of hour after hour of a hundred or more
>closely packed bicycles in a rolling traffic jam.


That's like saying a baseball game is just guys standing around for hours
briefly scurrying once in awhile. Accurate but unfair to the point of becoming
untrue.

Ron
 
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:53:11 GMT, RonSonic <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:18:29 -0600, [email protected] wrote:


[snip]

>>Day 9: first 84 of 170 riders awarded same finishing time:
>>http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10331.0.html

>
>But they arent' the same riders that had the same finishing time the day before
>and they aren't the same as will finish together tomorrow.


[snip]

Dear Ron,

Er, here are the first 6 days . . . to a first approximation, they're
the same riders in the same place. Without bonuses, one rider might
have been ahead by 5 seconds, with about 47 riders tied for second
place, and a roughly 90-way tie for third place.

Day 1: first 171 of 176 riders awarded same finishing time:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10213.0.html

Day 2: first 141 of 175 riders awarded same finishing time:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10224.0.html

Day 3: 47 of 172 riders finished 5 seconds after winner:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10241.0.html

Day 4: first 147 of 172 riders awarded same finishing time:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10250.0.html

Day 5: first 139 of 172 riders awarded same finishing time:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10259.0.html

Day 6: first 148 of 171 riders awarded same finishing time:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10271.0.html

Day 1: 171/176 = 97% of riders in first place

Day 2: 141/175 = 81% of riders in first place

Day 3: 42/172 = 24% of riders in 2nd place, 5 seconds behind winner
28/172 = 16% of riders in 4th place, 22 seconds behind winner

Day 4: 147/172 = 85% of riders in first place

Day 5: 139/172 = 81% of riders in first place

Day 6: 148/171 = 87% of riders in first place

Things do get more interesting in the prologue, the ITT, and the
mountains, but those first 6 days look like over 70% of the field
finishing in first place.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Lou Holtman <[email protected]> wrote:

> BTW Landis lost the TdF in todays stage. Fascinating stage. Oeps...


an other great statement. takes all its value when read after morzine...

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ZeMascouflatte wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Lou Holtman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>BTW Landis lost the TdF in todays stage. Fascinating stage. Oeps...

>
>
> an other great statement. takes all its value when read after morzine...


Yep, he was amazing today. I have to take my words back. Chapeaux!
He proved that de TdF is a great race to watch.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Lou Holtman <[email protected]> wrote:

> He proved that de TdF is a great race to watch.


specially this year where it's really open. they managed to keep a real
interest to the end. the tt will be interesting.

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Lou Holtman wrote:
> ZeMascouflatte wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Lou Holtman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BTW Landis lost the TdF in todays stage. Fascinating stage. Oeps...

> >
> >
> > an other great statement. takes all its value when read after morzine...

>
> Yep, he was amazing today. I have to take my words back. Chapeaux!
> He proved that de TdF is a great race to watch.


Best not to write someone off until the horizontally challenged woman
has sung. Look for her to start her entrance after the ITT this
Saturday.

- rick
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Lou Holtman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> <snip>.
>
> > Despite the bombast, the boasting, and the keen sense of well-informed
> > appreciation, few posters would watch even 4 straight hours of the
> > Tour with the sound turned off, much less 80+ hours. The typical
> > action consists chiefly of hour after hour of a hundred or more
> > closely packed bicycles in a rolling traffic jam.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Carl Fogel

>
> You can say that about any sport I think. You see what you want to see. If
> you don't want to see it, it's boring. What about baseball? Are the
> outfielders not picking their noses and scratching their crotches 98% of the
> time and every pitch takes about 5 minutes with all the fuss around it? It's
> so boring that the people in the stadium have to be entertained by that
> stupid organ tunes, cheerleaders or whatever. Personally I rather watch a
> Tour stage for 4 straight hours than a baseball game dragging itself from
> commercial break to commercial break..ehh inning to inning.
> But that's me....


When watching baseball at the park watch the fielders
shift for each new batter. They often shift as the count
changes. Plenty going on. If you keep score at the park
your mind is never out of the game. What is the body
language of the pitcher as he gets the sign from the
catcher? There's no end to it.

Baseball at the park is a different game from TV, while TV
is the way to follow a bicycle race.

--
Michael Press
 
"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Lou Holtman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > <snip>.
> >
> > > Despite the bombast, the boasting, and the keen sense of well-informed
> > > appreciation, few posters would watch even 4 straight hours of the
> > > Tour with the sound turned off, much less 80+ hours. The typical
> > > action consists chiefly of hour after hour of a hundred or more
> > > closely packed bicycles in a rolling traffic jam.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Carl Fogel

> >
> > You can say that about any sport I think. You see what you want to see.

If
> > you don't want to see it, it's boring. What about baseball? Are the
> > outfielders not picking their noses and scratching their crotches 98% of

the
> > time and every pitch takes about 5 minutes with all the fuss around it?

It's
> > so boring that the people in the stadium have to be entertained by that
> > stupid organ tunes, cheerleaders or whatever. Personally I rather watch

a
> > Tour stage for 4 straight hours than a baseball game dragging itself

from
> > commercial break to commercial break..ehh inning to inning.
> > But that's me....

>
> When watching baseball at the park watch the fielders
> shift for each new batter. They often shift as the count
> changes. Plenty going on. If you keep score at the park
> your mind is never out of the game. What is the body
> language of the pitcher as he gets the sign from the
> catcher? There's no end to it.


That's exactly what I mean. If you don't want to see all that or don't know
where to look, it's boring. Same for watching the TdF. Saying that 175
riders came first, well you missing a lot.

> Baseball at the park is a different game from TV, while TV
> is the way to follow a bicycle race.


That's true, but is that bad? Did you ever watch a marathon, cross country
skiing, formula 1 race etc. etc.
I only watch a bicycle race live to sniff the atmosphere; at the start and
at the finish.

Lou
 
"Lou Holtman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>That's exactly what I mean. If you don't want to see all that or don't know
>where to look, it's boring. Same for watching the TdF. Saying that 175
>riders came first, well you missing a lot.
>
>> Baseball at the park is a different game from TV, while TV
>> is the way to follow a bicycle race.

>
>That's true, but is that bad? Did you ever watch a marathon, cross country
>skiing, formula 1 race etc. etc.
> I only watch a bicycle race live to sniff the atmosphere; at the start and
>at the finish.


Then you missed one heck of a stage yesterday. Wow.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
 
Mark Hickey wrote:
> "Lou Holtman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>That's exactly what I mean. If you don't want to see all that or don't know
>>where to look, it's boring. Same for watching the TdF. Saying that 175
>>riders came first, well you missing a lot.
>>
>>
>>>Baseball at the park is a different game from TV, while TV
>>>is the way to follow a bicycle race.

>>
>>That's true, but is that bad? Did you ever watch a marathon, cross country
>>skiing, formula 1 race etc. etc.
>>I only watch a bicycle race live to sniff the atmosphere; at the start and
>>at the finish.

>
>
> Then you missed one heck of a stage yesterday. Wow.



No, no yesterday I was glued to the TV. Indeed wow... I just watch it
live when I or the TdF are/is in de neighbourhood, like this years stage
to Valkenburg.

Lou
--
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