touring gears : more questions

[Walter Mitty]

I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of matching gears,cranks, index
shifting, non index shifting etc etc.

Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!

(1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?

(2) Campag ergopower levers only work with index shifting?

(3) Campag 10 sp ergopower can work with 9sp too?

(4) Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current product
range (I found nothing on their web site).

(5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since it's the lever that
does the work?

(6) A long cage 9sp campag chorus is a great choice for a rear mech?

(7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive front
rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously on a 7sp
shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?

(8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?

thanks for your continued patience and time

regards,

r.

 

[B]

>Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current product
>range (I found nothing on their web site).

no B

(remove clothes to reply)

 

[Raymo853]

"Walter Mitty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded
tourer?

If you mean 9 speed shimano the answer is no. 8 speed Shimano will preform much better in the mud
and ice than Shimano 9 speed. I have no personal experience with Campy, but I know my cross friends
riding Campy always use the old 8 speed Campy stuff and steer clear of 9 or 10 speed,

> (5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since
it's
> the lever that does the work?

The cable pull amount is not always the same so not all of them work with all shifters. Most do,
just not all.

> (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes
prompted
> by (7) are done?
>

Depends on what size rings you will put on the RSX crank.

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

walter-<< (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?

Most common cogset number 'out there' if ya need one from BFE bike store.

<< (2) Campag ergopower levers only work with index shifting?

Correct, like STI...shimano bar end shifters have an friction option, a good thing for touring.

< (3) Campag 10 sp ergopower can work with 9sp too?

Not correct, you can convert a 10s lever to 9s, but if 10s if shifts 10s spoacing, with any
Campagnolop rear der tho.

<< (4) Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current
product range (I found nothing on their web site).

No-click shifting only.

<< (5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since it's the lever that
does the work?

generally correct.

<< (6) A long cage 9sp campag chorus is a great choice for a rear mech?

Yep can handle 34t cogs-

<< (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive
front rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously on a 7sp
shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?

No-

<< (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?

Probably, depends on if you use STI, vs Campagnolo and the ring size you choose. If Campagnolo or
friction, no problem unless the front rings are really small.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Walter Mitty]

Walter Mitty <[email protected]> brightened my day with his incisive wit when in
news:[email protected] he conjectured that:

>
> (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?
>

Correction : derailleur not shifter.

 

[Walter Mitty]

So Campag bar end shifters are *only* index shifters? So not good for touring?

But I could use my shimano bar ends in friction mode in order to drive a campag chorus long cage
rear derailleur?

 

[Whitfit]

Walter Mitty <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of matching gears,cranks, index
> shifting, non index shifting etc etc.
>

I know the feeling- I did the same dance last spring. I went with Shimano bar end shifters,
pulling an XT rear mech and an old sachs mtb front mech. The only reason to go Campag is for the
Ergo levers, which work with a wider variety of front setups. I didn't have the time, patience, or
money to buy Ergo levers and experiment with different setups, so I just bought the Shimano 9 spd.
bar end levers and have been very happy. That being said, brifters are nice to have. If that's the
way you want to go, I hear the sweet setup for touring is Ergo with Campag rear mech and Shimano
rear hub, while your present front end should do you okay as the Ergo levers have more clicks up
front to trim.

Whitfit.

> Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!
>
> (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?
>
Not necessary, but nice for the range.

> (2) Campag ergopower levers only work with index shifting?
>
> (3) Campag 10 sp ergopower can work with 9sp too?

Replace the shifting cog

>
> (4) Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current product
> range (I found nothing on their web site).
>
> (5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since it's the lever that does the
> work?
>

Yep

> (6) A long cage 9sp campag chorus is a great choice for a rear mech?
>
> (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive front
> rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously on a 7sp
> shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?

Pins and ramps are nice, but not required.

>
> (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?
>

Sure.

>
> thanks for your continued patience and time
>
> regards,
>
> r.

 

[Michael Pearlma]

Walter Mitty <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of matching gears,cranks, index
> shifting, non index shifting etc etc.
>
> Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!
>
> (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?
>
> (2) Campag ergopower levers only work with index shifting?
>
> (3) Campag 10 sp ergopower can work with 9sp too?
>
> (4) Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current product
> range (I found nothing on their web site).
>
> (5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since it's the lever that does the
> work?
>
> (6) A long cage 9sp campag chorus is a great choice for a rear mech?
>
> (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive front
> rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously on a 7sp
> shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?
>
> (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?
>
>
> thanks for your continued patience and time
>
> regards,
>
> r.

If you have a XT rear hub forget Campy and put on Shimano cassette. Match it with Shimano bar end
shifters and live happily ever after.

 

[Walter Mitty]

Walter Mitty <[email protected]> brightened my day with his incisive wit when in
news:[email protected] he conjectured that:

>
> I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of matching gears,cranks, index
> shifting, non index shifting etc etc.
>
> Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!
>
> (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?
>
> (2) Campag ergopower levers only work with index shifting?
>
> (3) Campag 10 sp ergopower can work with 9sp too?
>
> (4) Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current product
> range (I found nothing on their web site).
>
> (5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since it's the lever that does the
> work?
>
> (6) A long cage 9sp campag chorus is a great choice for a rear mech?
>
> (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive front
> rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously on a 7sp
> shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?
>
> (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?
>
>
> thanks for your continued patience and time
>
> regards,
>
> r.
>

Folks : thanks for the advice.

It doesn't seem to be possible to move to a chorus long cage 9 Spd (supply - did they even ever
exist?) : so I've been advised to go for a Campagnolo racer T rear derailleur instead - it looks
nice and has the capacity for the ratios I want to reach. I'll run it in friction mode from my
existing Shimano bar ends until such a time as I can afford to move to a full ergo power set up - I
found a godo resource explaining how to get ergopower shifters to handle 9 spd rear. Front
derailleur stays as Shimano rsx for the time being.

--
Walter Mitty.

 

[Mike S.]

> > I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of matching gears,cranks, index
> > shifting, non index shifting etc etc.
> >
> > Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!
> >
> > (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?
> >
> > (2) Campag ergopower levers only work with index shifting?
> >
> > (3) Campag 10 sp ergopower can work with 9sp too?
> >
> > (4) Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current
> > product range (I found nothing on their web site).
> >
> > (5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since it's the lever that does
> > the work?
> >
> > (6) A long cage 9sp campag chorus is a great choice for a rear mech?
> >
> > (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive
> > front rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously
> > on a 7sp shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?
> >
> > (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?
> >
> >
> > thanks for your continued patience and time
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > r.
> >
>
> Folks : thanks for the advice.
>
> It doesn't seem to be possible to move to a chorus long cage 9 Spd (supply - did they even ever
> exist?) : so I've been advised to go for a Campagnolo racer T rear derailleur instead - it looks
> nice and has the capacity for the ratios I want to reach. I'll run it in friction mode from my
> existing Shimano bar ends until such a time as I can afford to move to a full ergo power set up -
> I found a godo resource explaining how to get ergopower shifters to handle 9 spd rear. Front
> derailleur stays as Shimano rsx for the time being.
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Mitty.

Silly question: why the heck do you want to run Campy on a touring bike? At least here in the US,
Campy is going to be harder to find in outer BFE, more expensive when you do find it, and doesn't do
what you want it to.

If something goes wrong, and you don't mind sitting around for 24-48 hours while you overnight a
package from a mail order house, then by all means go Campy.

The easiest thing to do is run Shimano mtn components. Most every shop out there is going to have
parts in stock if you break something, they're going to be less expensive, and you have the friction
bail out option in the barcons.

My $.02...

Mike

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Walter Mitty wrote:
> I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of matching gears,cranks, index
> shifting, non index shifting etc etc.
>
> Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!
>
> (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?

Yes.

> (2) Campag ergopower levers only work with index shifting?

Rear is indexed, front is not.

> (3) Campag 10 sp ergopower can work with 9sp too?

No.

> (4) Do campag do a 9 sp bar end shifter that can also work in friction mode? Is it current product
> range (I found nothing on their web site).

No, that's a Shimano patent. It is, however, a basically useless feature, see my previous reply.

> (5) All rear derailleurs should work in friction or nidex mode since it's the lever that does the
> work?

Basically, yes.

> (6) A long cage 9sp campag chorus is a great choice for a rear mech?

If you're using Campagnolo shifters, yes.

> (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive front
> rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously on a 7sp
> shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?
>

There is a lot of confusion about the compatibility of narrow 9-speed chains with older cranksets.
Shimano says you should replace the inner chainring(s) with specially designated 9-speed ones, but
then they're all too eager to sell you stuff, whether you need it or not.

Shimano is also concerned about clueless users. The worst-case scenario is that you will be riding
along with the bike in its highest gear (large front, small rear) and then for some bizarre reason
shift down in front before downshifting in the back. (There is no shift pattern in which it is
reasonable to shift in this sequence.)

If you _do_ shift this way, there's a small chance that the chain might "skate" over the edges of
the teeth for maybe half a turn.

In practice this "problem" almost never materializes. Many, many cyclists are using 9-speed chains
with older cranksets and having no problems whatever.

> (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?

Yes.

Sheldon "Friction Rear Shifting Is Obsolete" Brown +------------------------------------+
| Experience is a hard teacher, | because she gives the test first, | the lesson after. --
| Vernon Law |
+------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772
FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Walter Mitty wrote:

> So Campag bar end shifters are *only* index shifters?

Right, but only the r.

> So not good for touring?

Indexed (rear) shifting is a Good Thing, for touring and all other applications.

> But I could use my shimano bar ends in friction mode in order to drive a campag chorus long cage
> rear derailleur?

You could, but it would be silly, because it won't index. If you've got Shimano bar ends, you should
use a Shimano rear derailer. These can be had for as little as $20.

Some people suffer under the mistaken impression that it is useful to be able to switch to friction
mode in the event of derailer damage.

In practice, this is not the case. If the derailer goes out of adjustment, the correct response is
to readjust it, not to disable the indexing.

Sheldon "Indexing Is Good" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------+
| Military conscription is the worst form of slavery. | A more enlightened age will consider it a
| War crime. |
+-------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Michel Gagnon]

Walter Mitty <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of matching gears,cranks, index
> shifting, non index shifting etc etc.
>
> Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!
>
> (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded tourer?

The 9-speed chain is "less durable" than the 7-8 speed one. But I don't stand on my pedals and I use
full fenders... and have done so far 7000 km with the same chain and NO stretch.

> (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive front
> rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously on a 7sp
> shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?
>
> (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?
>
>
> thanks for your continued patience and time
>
> regards,
>
> r.

What do you have right now?

In theory, there are different chainrings for Shimano 7/8 speed and 9-speed setups. However,
Sheldon has written a few times that in practice, 8-speed cranks and chainwheels can be used on a
9-speed bike.

BTW, I have changed my cassette from 8-speed to 9-speed. I replaced the chain for a 9-speed one, but
I haven't changed anything in front; I still have my XT cranskset with the original (to me) 8-speed
chainrings. No problems, no dropped chain, no sliding chain in-between gears, nothing whatsoever.

I have kept the original 8-speed bar-end shifters (Shimano) that I shift in friction mode. Had I
wanted to use indexed shifting, I would have needed to replace the shifters for 9-speed ones. The
right bar-end (or downtube) Shimano shifter has indexed and friction settings, and there is a spring
to make sure there is not too much tension in the handle. The left bar-end shifter works in friction
mode only, which means it work with any derailleur and any gearing combination.

Regards,

Michel Gagnon

 

[Mike S.]

"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Walter Mitty wrote:
>
> > So Campag bar end shifters are *only* index shifters?
>
> Right, but only the r.
>
> > So not good for touring?
>
> Indexed (rear) shifting is a Good Thing, for touring and all other applications.
>
> > But I could use my shimano bar ends in friction mode in order to drive a campag chorus long cage
> > rear derailleur?
>
> You could, but it would be silly, because it won't index. If you've got Shimano bar ends, you
> should use a Shimano rear derailer. These can be had for as little as $20.
>
> Some people suffer under the mistaken impression that it is useful to be able to switch to
> friction mode in the event of derailer damage.
>
> In practice, this is not the case. If the derailer goes out of adjustment, the correct response is
> to readjust it, not to disable the indexing.
>
I've gotten derailleurs and dropouts munched by rocks and sticks. Having the friction mode is a good
thing if you can't get things fixed 100% on the trail.

Mike

> Sheldon "Indexing Is Good" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------+
> | Military conscription is the worst form of slavery. | A more enlightened age will consider it a
> | War crime. |
> +-------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
> Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
> shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Mike S.]

"Michel Gagnon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Walter Mitty <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I'm almost stringing myself up due to the apparent complexity of
matching
> > gears,cranks, index shifting, non index shifting etc etc.
> >
> > Hopefully answers to these questions will help!!
> >
> > (1) Most would agree that 9sp is the way to go for a heavy loaded
tourer?
>
>
> The 9-speed chain is "less durable" than the 7-8 speed one. But I don't stand on my pedals and I
> use full fenders... and have done so far 7000 km with the same chain and NO stretch.
>
>
> > (7) My current shimano rsx crank on an XT hub is fine : I just need to change the hyperdrive
> > front rings to something like TA (they need changing anyway).This crank was used previously
> > on a 7sp shimano kitted bike. Is there different crank needed for a 9sp setup?
> >
> > (8) Will my RSX front shifter continue to do after the changes prompted by (7) are done?
> >
> >
> > thanks for your continued patience and time
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > r.
>
>
> What do you have right now?
>
> In theory, there are different chainrings for Shimano 7/8 speed and 9-speed setups. However,
> Sheldon has written a few times that in practice, 8-speed cranks and chainwheels can be used on a
> 9-speed bike.
>
> BTW, I have changed my cassette from 8-speed to 9-speed. I replaced the chain for a 9-speed one,
> but I haven't changed anything in front; I still have my XT cranskset with the original (to me)
> 8-speed chainrings. No problems, no dropped chain, no sliding chain in-between gears, nothing
> whatsoever.
>
> I have kept the original 8-speed bar-end shifters (Shimano) that I shift in friction mode. Had I
> wanted to use indexed shifting, I would have needed to replace the shifters for 9-speed ones. The
> right bar-end (or downtube) Shimano shifter has indexed and friction settings, and there is a
> spring to make sure there is not too much tension in the handle. The left bar-end shifter works in
> friction mode only, which means it work with any derailleur and any gearing combination.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michel Gagnon

There's no "mystery click" on the 8sp barcons like there was on the 7sp thumbshifters? I'd try it
and see. Set the derailleur up like you would for normal 8sp shifting, the extra click should be
past the last click you have now on the big cog (physical size) end of the range.

If it works, you've saved yourself $$, if it doesn't, well, your derailleur's adjusted better...

Sheldon? Anyone? any experience with this?

Mike

 

[Jonathan V.D. S]

Walter Mitty <[email protected]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email protected]
>
> So Campag bar end shifters are *only* index shifters? So not good for touring?

Indexed shifters are not bad for touring; my experience with them is good (for the rear, that is).
There is, however, something else to consider. Ergo and STI levers are more sensitive to
accidentally shifting when your bike falls. The blows to these expensive components can be quite
hard if you have a lot of luggage. Although I don't have experience with it, I think the STI
shifters are most sensitive, since the brake levers can be moved sideways. The Ergo brake levers
should theoretically protect the shifter somewhat, but I still don't think they're ideal. Perhaps
this is the reason many experienced long-distance bikers prefer down tube shifters, because bar end
shifters aren't really immune to accidental shifting either.

Jonathan.

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Tue, 27 May 2003 13:14:20 -0400, Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

>Sheldon "Friction Rear Shifting Is Obsolete" Brown

Welllll... I had a bike with a 6 speed freewheel in rear, (MF-HG20) with an RD-TY20 derailler,
controlled by a bartop lever, and I have never, from day one, been able to make it index shift, so I
used it with the indexing turned off. Now that I've torn the bike down completely, it feels like the
bartop lever actually has *seven* clicks. Gee.. I wonder if that had something to do with it.

If I could get my hands on the asshole that installed a 6sp freewheel on a 7sp bike, and then sold
it off to be found by me, without any knowledge of things like that...

On the bright side, it cost me $50 5 years ago. $150 including the parts needed to get it on the
road again.

Jasper

 

[Whitfit]

Walter Mitty <[email protected]> wrote in message so I've been advised to go for a
> Campagnolo racer T rear derailleur instead - it looks nice and has the capacity for the ratios I
> want to reach.

Okay- I'm confused. Why the obsession with a Campag rear mech? If you have Shimano bar end shifting,
stick with an indexed rear Shimano rear mech. As I said, the only reason to use Campag derailer is
for the Ergo levers. Otherwise, you have more options in Shimano. More choices of capacity etc...
But, if you must have that Campag rear derailer...

Whitfit.

 

[Walter Mitty]

"Mike S." <[email protected]> brightened my day with his incisive wit when in
news:[email protected] he conjectured that:

>
> Silly question: why the heck do you want to run Campy on a touring bike? At least here in the US,
> Campy is going to be harder to find in outer BFE, more expensive when you do find it, and doesn't
> do what you want it to.
>
> If something goes wrong, and you don't mind sitting around for 24-48 hours while you overnight a
> package from a mail order house, then by all means go Campy.
>
> The easiest thing to do is run Shimano mtn components. Most every shop out there is going to have
> parts in stock if you break something, they're going to be less expensive, and you have the
> friction bail out option in the barcons.
>
> My $.02...
>
> Mike
>
>

A very good question : especially since one of my first "must" was to have a bike which was
maintainable miles from anywhere. But then I got to thinking : if it's a place thats got Shimano
then its a place that can either improvise a fix or get campy spares.

And, to be quite honest I simply don't like the look & feel of Shimano. It's an aesthetic thing :
and I believe the quality & look & feel of the Campy parts are superior.

I've been on bikes on & off (if yu'll excuse the pun) for 18 years and have yet to break a
derailleur, chain etc etc yet, so I think I can give myself a little more room in the
aesthetics space

Besides, I do want to move to ergopower shifters at the end of the day .. I tried a set recently and
fell in love.

--
Walter Mitty.

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

Walter-<< It doesn't seem to be possible to move to a chorus long cage 9 Spd (supply - did they even
ever exist?) :

Sure, easy to find...

<< so I've been advised to go for a Campagnolo racer T rear derailleur instead

That'll work also altho the Chorus 'long cage' has a longer cage. As does Centaur...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"