mac magon said:
Components were another consideration. would it be worthe spending the extra £100 - 200 on the Centaur Alloy or the shimano Ultegra?
I think the "Centaur Alloy" designation is used for one of Campagnolo's current 2009 shifters ... I haven't ridden
on them, but several months ago I did take the time to go to one of the LBSes in my area &
grab the new hood shape ... AND, my immediate conclusion was that if I actually rode my MTB more then I would probably prefer the shape of the 2009 hoods over that of the previous style (which I like very much) because the larger hoods on the newer levers allow you to grab them as you would grab the bar ends you may have on your MTB handlebar.
If you have-and-use bar ends on your Flat Bars, then you will embrace the newer Campagnolo lever style.
If you don't have bar ends on our MTB-or-Hybrid, then let your aesthetic sensibilities & wallet be your guide ...
Regardless of the brand of shifters (Campagnolo, Shimano, SRAM) you will find that having your hands on the hoods is a very common position while you are riding since you can brake & shift when your hands are in that position.
I would opt for the (presumably) old-style Veloce shifters EVEN THOUGH they are based on the under-appreciated Xenon-mechansim (these can be readily identified by the 'QS' on the LEFT shifter) ... it's a good design which just isn't quite as good as the ERGO mechanism which was used on the majority of Campagnolo shifters for more than a dozen years.
You can readily retrofit the newest style of Campagnolo shifters on almost any recent, Campagnolo equipped bike for the cost of the apparent up-charge; particularly, after you take into consideration that you will probably be able to sell the older shifters for £60-or-more (depending on use & condition) ...
You can certainly buy a pair of the newer, 2009 Campagnolo shifters for under £160 on eBay; so, why pony up the money now if there is any reservation as to the advantage of the 2009-style shifters?
N.B. I think the Centaur chainrings may be cosmetically nicer than the Veloce chainrings ... there may be a slight weight difference between the Centaur & Veloce components -- but, the 2009 Centaur derailleurs seem to have been unchanged from the 2008 Centaur derailleurs which means they are essentially the same as the Veloce derailleurs. So, I can't say that there is any real difference between the "Centaur Alloy" & the Veloce other than the shifters + the weight-and-finish of the rest of the otherwise-the-same components.
BTW. A significant (to me) advantage of the pre-2007 (seemingly, much older) Campagnolo shifters is that they have the ERGO mechanism which is much more forgiving/flexible with regard to the shifting on the front derailleur AND any front derailleur can be used with the ERGO mechanism (I use Shimano derailleurs with my Campagnolo shifters), whereas the new (2009) mechanism is apparently limited to using specific Campagnolo derailleurs ... but, that may be just the chatter promulgated by the Campagnolo reps AND the actual limitation needs to be confirmed (by me, a some point in the future), and it may only be a matter of miscommunication/misinterpretation on my part of the info that has been generally made available.
The only (?) problem with the Ultegra is that any bike sold this calendar year with Shimano Ultegra components will be from the 6600 series. There is nothing seriously wrong with that, but the 6700 series has already been announced, and the price differential may-or-may-not be great.
I 'love' Shimano ... I even have a set of 6603 shifters & 6603 derailleurs in a box + a XT Rapid Rise that have been awaiting some road tests (to prove-or-disprove a hypothesis) for more than a year, but Campagnolo just works better & the Shimano
kluge configuration would be more to enhance my knowledge base (because no one else other than some guys in Osaka apparently care!).
The older/(pre-2009) 10-speed Campagnolo ERGO shifters are compatible with 8-speed/9-speed/(and, possibly 10-speed) Shimano drivetrains ... the disadvantage of buying a bike with an 8-speed Shimano drivetrain is the slightly lower quality (weight & finish -- the functionality is the same) of the derailleurs & crankset (and, possibly the wheels).
