Track bike help

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by [email protected], Mar 19, 2006.

  1. Paul Hobson

    Paul Hobson Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Paul Hobson wrote:
    >
    >
    >>1) There was a thread a while ago about setting up fixies. On poster
    >>chimed in that had a buddy who rode sans lockring and could lock up the
    >>pedals but keep the weight on the rear wheel such that the lockring
    >>would on thread. According to the poster, his buddy would then have to
    >>spin really fast to thread the cog back on. Here's that thread (post 14
    >>by Tom Nakashima) <http://tinyurl.com/grreg>
    >>
    >>Secondly: Also, I think you're experiment is a little flawed in that you
    >>putting dramatic, but short forces on one pedal at a time (right?).
    >>Truth be told, I get most of my stopping power by pulling up as my front
    >>foot travels downward. And obviously, when I slow down sans brakes, I'm
    >>applying that pressure over a range of motion (time) that is much long
    >>than your body slams.
    >>
    >>c) Whenever I've set up the few fixie wheels that I own, I thread on the
    >>cog as tight as I can, get the lockring on as tight as a I can, then
    >>ride up the steep high just outside my house to get it tighter. Then I
    >>have to walk down or else I'll unthread the cog back to where it was
    >>before I've a chance to tighten the lockring further. I've never had to
    >>do this more than once and I've haven't felt my cogs slip back even the
    >>slightest bit.
    >>
    >>but that's just my personal experience.

    >
    >
    > Thank you for posting that.
    >
    > Begs a couple of questions:
    > How much you can tighten the LR after your trip up the hill?


    Not much at all. Maybe 1/8 of a turn at the *very* most.

    > Have you ever loosened a cog, LR or no, on a fixer, in "normal road
    > use"?


    I've only loosened cog until the lockring caught it. This happened
    before I used the technique I outlined above and while it felt funny,
    wasn't really an issue. Though it became annoying as it happened every
    time I stopped since it would retighten when I took off again.

    > IOW, have you found this extra tightening to be needed to prevent
    > loosenings experienced without the trip up the hill? What size gear are
    > you using, in inches?


    Yes. I should clarify: I don't use a chain whip. I just thread it on
    by hand until it hurts. Mount the wheel, ride up the hill. Typically,
    I feel the cog tighten (a weird experience) by the second or third
    revolution of my right foot, but still mash up the hill as much as
    possible. Once I get the lock ring dialed into the cog's new and
    slightly snugger position, I haven't had a perceivable
    loosening/tightening cycle since.

    The beater is 42x16 on 32 mm tires = 70.9 gear inches
    The nice one is 48x18 & 17 w/ 25 mm tires = 70.3 & 74.5 gear inches.

    I'm a spinner and a lightweight, so those combo's work great for me --
    dropped a couple of squids in my day. ;)

    > Paul, you could save yourself a walk down the hill if you carried your
    > LR wrench with you on the
    > ride up <g>.


    I did that the very first time and I left my lockring spanner on a
    neighbor's mailbox over night (put it down to grab the 15 mm wrench for
    the nutted axles). Luckily, I guess it looks weird enough that even a
    crackhead won't take it.

    > I'm a retired repair/remodel plumber, and "gave it my best shot" to get
    > that cog off with the pedal (the right one), in light of that
    > experience. A carefully applied blast of torque, IMS, is what pops
    > parts loose. Your muscles get tired pretty fast, so your first effort
    > needs to be a good one. I do think my technique improved on the third
    > or fourth (fifth, sixth, whatever it was) slam and I finally nailed it
    > hard enough to spin the cog backwards. I blocked the wheel because
    > (Sheldon Brown writes about this) traction is so limited on the rear
    > wheel when in motion, riding, that it is very easy to lock it up with a
    > caliper brake (weak stopping power), at which point your feet can
    > (will) stop pedaling as you slide the rear tire. IOW, I didn't want to
    > leave an easy way for my cog- unscrewing efforts' energy to be lost in
    > slippage. I think it was a pretty good setup; the bike couldn't move
    > much at all, and I had balance and control much better than I think
    > could be done while rolling, testimony of those who say they can
    > unscrew tight cogs notwithstanding. "I'd like to see them do it", as
    > the saying goes. Still open. --D-y


    Still open indeed. I've never had to remove a cog. I've only installed
    three (1 on the rainy-day) and two on the nice bike + two for friends
    (they did the riding, I just had the tools). Since I don't have a chain
    whip, I'm going to hope your wrong and I can just pedal it off. :)
    [Strokes chin] Maybe I could remove the lockring and set it up left side
    drive...hmmm....

    --
    Paul M. Hobson
    Georgia Institute of Technology
    ..:change the f to ph to reply:.
     


  2. Paul Hobson

    Paul Hobson Guest

    Paul Hobson wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> Paul Hobson wrote:


    >> IOW, have you found this extra tightening to be needed to prevent
    >> loosenings experienced without the trip up the hill? What size gear are
    >> you using, in inches?


    > Yes. I should clarify: I don't use a chain whip. I just thread it on
    > by hand until it hurts. Mount the wheel, ride up the hill. Typically,
    > I feel the cog tighten (a weird experience) by the second or third
    > revolution of my right foot, but still mash up the hill as much as
    > possible. Once I get the lock ring dialed into the cog's new and
    > slightly snugger position, I haven't had a perceivable
    > loosening/tightening cycle since.


    A final clarification: The Honorable Mr. Brown advised to use this very
    technique in response to a post I made on r.b.tech sometime ago.
    \\paul
     
  3. Paul Hobson wrote:
    > Paul Hobson wrote:
    > > [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > >> Paul Hobson wrote:

    >
    > >> IOW, have you found this extra tightening to be needed to prevent
    > >> loosenings experienced without the trip up the hill? What size gear are
    > >> you using, in inches?

    >
    > > Yes. I should clarify: I don't use a chain whip. I just thread it on
    > > by hand until it hurts. Mount the wheel, ride up the hill. Typically,
    > > I feel the cog tighten (a weird experience) by the second or third
    > > revolution of my right foot, but still mash up the hill as much as
    > > possible. Once I get the lock ring dialed into the cog's new and
    > > slightly snugger position, I haven't had a perceivable
    > > loosening/tightening cycle since.

    >
    > A final clarification: The Honorable Mr. Brown advised to use this very
    > technique in response to a post I made on r.b.tech sometime ago.


    Works, too, doesn't it? <g> Thanks x2. --D-y
     
  4. Vee

    Vee Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > I'm a retired repair/remodel plumber, and "gave it my best shot" to get
    > that cog off with the pedal (the right one), in light of that
    > experience. A carefully applied blast of torque, IMS, is what pops
    > parts loose.


    I still say a panic stop through clipless pedals puts more torque on
    the wheel than the awkward procedure of jumping on the pedal while the
    bike is fixed against a wall.

    > Your muscles get tired pretty fast, so your first effort
    > needs to be a good one. I do think my technique improved on the third
    > or fourth (fifth, sixth, whatever it was) slam and I finally nailed it
    > hard enough to spin the cog backwards.


    I sometimes loosen my own cogs this way, and I agree that it's
    difficult to do. I weigh around 200lbs, and I usually have to leap on
    the pedal two or three times to break the cog loose. But jumping on
    the pedal this way is awkward because you have to focus on landing
    squarely on the pedal.

    <snip>
    > (Sheldon Brown writes about this) traction is so limited on the rear
    > wheel when in motion, riding, that it is very easy to lock it up with a
    > caliper brake (weak stopping power), at which point your feet can
    > (will) stop pedaling as you slide the rear tire.


    It's incredibly hard to skid a fixed gear with your weight over the
    rear wheel. I'll do some more speculating and say that it's probably
    impossible to sustain a skid with your weight over the rear wheel on a
    70" setup on dry pavement. That's why it's possible to momentarily
    apply as much or more torque to the cog while actually riding the bike
    than while it's stationary.

    > IOW, I didn't want to
    > leave an easy way for my cog- unscrewing efforts' energy to be lost in
    > slippage. I think it was a pretty good setup; the bike couldn't move
    > much at all, and I had balance and control much better than I think
    > could be done while rolling, testimony of those who say they can
    > unscrew tight cogs notwithstanding. "I'd like to see them do it", as
    > the saying goes. Still open. --D-y


    Well, come to Madison, WI and watch me. To verify to myself that I'm
    not making all this up, a few minutes ago I backed off the lockring on
    one of my fixed gears and tried to stimulate what I'm describing as a
    panic skid. (Bike setup: cheap old Raleigh Gran Sport with Surly fixed
    hub and DA cog. 42x15 with 700x32 tires = 75.6 gear inches.) I
    tightened the cog by pushing down on a stout chainwhip with my foot.
    Since then, I have done a couple climbs. I easily broke the cog free,
    without even warming up first, with a single hop-skid at about 12mph.
    Essentially, I unweighted the rear, then abruptly weighted it while
    resisting the pedals. It was truly easy, much easier than jumping up
    and down on a pedal while the bike is stationary. The tire didn't
    noticeably skid; the cog just loosened. And you're just wrong.

    -Vee
     
  5. Vee

    Vee Guest

    Vee wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > > I'm a retired repair/remodel plumber, and "gave it my best shot" to get
    > > that cog off with the pedal (the right one), in light of that
    > > experience. A carefully applied blast of torque, IMS, is what pops
    > > parts loose.

    >
    > I still say a panic stop through clipless pedals puts more torque on
    > the wheel than the awkward procedure of jumping on the pedal while the
    > bike is fixed against a wall.
    >
    > > Your muscles get tired pretty fast, so your first effort
    > > needs to be a good one. I do think my technique improved on the third
    > > or fourth (fifth, sixth, whatever it was) slam and I finally nailed it
    > > hard enough to spin the cog backwards.

    >
    > I sometimes loosen my own cogs this way, and I agree that it's
    > difficult to do. I weigh around 200lbs, and I usually have to leap on
    > the pedal two or three times to break the cog loose. But jumping on
    > the pedal this way is awkward because you have to focus on landing
    > squarely on the pedal.
    >
    > <snip>
    > > (Sheldon Brown writes about this) traction is so limited on the rear
    > > wheel when in motion, riding, that it is very easy to lock it up with a
    > > caliper brake (weak stopping power), at which point your feet can
    > > (will) stop pedaling as you slide the rear tire.

    >
    > It's incredibly hard to skid a fixed gear with your weight over the
    > rear wheel. I'll do some more speculating and say that it's probably
    > impossible to sustain a skid with your weight over the rear wheel on a
    > 70" setup on dry pavement. That's why it's possible to momentarily
    > apply as much or more torque to the cog while actually riding the bike
    > than while it's stationary.
    >
    > > IOW, I didn't want to
    > > leave an easy way for my cog- unscrewing efforts' energy to be lost in
    > > slippage. I think it was a pretty good setup; the bike couldn't move
    > > much at all, and I had balance and control much better than I think
    > > could be done while rolling, testimony of those who say they can
    > > unscrew tight cogs notwithstanding. "I'd like to see them do it", as
    > > the saying goes. Still open. --D-y

    >
    > Well, come to Madison, WI and watch me. To verify to myself that I'm
    > not making all this up, a few minutes ago I backed off the lockring on
    > one of my fixed gears and tried to stimulate what I'm describing as a
    > panic skid. (Bike setup: cheap old Raleigh Gran Sport with Surly fixed
    > hub and DA cog. 42x15 with 700x32 tires = 75.6 gear inches.) I
    > tightened the cog by pushing down on a stout chainwhip with my foot.
    > Since then, I have done a couple climbs. I easily broke the cog free,
    > without even warming up first, with a single hop-skid at about 12mph.
    > Essentially, I unweighted the rear, then abruptly weighted it while
    > resisting the pedals. It was truly easy, much easier than jumping up
    > and down on a pedal while the bike is stationary. The tire didn't
    > noticeably skid; the cog just loosened. And you're just wrong.
    >
    > -Vee


    That last sentence was gratuitous... I apologize.

    -Vee, calming down now
     
  6. Paul Hobson

    Paul Hobson Guest

    > [email protected] wrote:
    >>I'm a retired repair/remodel plumber, and "gave it my best shot" to get
    >>that cog off with the pedal (the right one), in light of that
    >>experience. A carefully applied blast of torque, IMS, is what pops
    >>parts loose.


    Vee wrote:
    > Well, come to Madison, WI and watch me. To verify to myself that I'm
    > not making all this up, a few minutes ago I backed off the lockring on
    > one of my fixed gears and tried to stimulate what I'm describing as a
    > panic skid. (Bike setup: cheap old Raleigh Gran Sport with Surly fixed
    > hub and DA cog. 42x15 with 700x32 tires = 75.6 gear inches.) I
    > tightened the cog by pushing down on a stout chainwhip with my foot.
    > Since then, I have done a couple climbs. I easily broke the cog free,
    > without even warming up first, with a single hop-skid at about 12mph.
    > Essentially, I unweighted the rear, then abruptly weighted it while
    > resisting the pedals. It was truly easy, much easier than jumping up
    > and down on a pedal while the bike is stationary. The tire didn't
    > noticeably skid; the cog just loosened. And you're just wrong.


    Good to know I don't need to buy that chain whip after all ;)

    \\paul
     
  7. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > [email protected] wrote:
    >>IOW, I didn't want to
    >>leave an easy way for my cog- unscrewing efforts' energy to be lost in
    >>slippage. I think it was a pretty good setup; the bike couldn't move
    >>much at all, and I had balance and control much better than I think
    >>could be done while rolling, testimony of those who say they can
    >>unscrew tight cogs notwithstanding. "I'd like to see them do it", as
    >>the saying goes. Still open. --D-y


    Vee wrote:
    > Well, come to Madison, WI and watch me. To verify to myself that I'm
    > not making all this up, a few minutes ago I backed off the lockring on
    > one of my fixed gears and tried to stimulate what I'm describing as a
    > panic skid. (Bike setup: cheap old Raleigh Gran Sport with Surly fixed
    > hub and DA cog. 42x15 with 700x32 tires = 75.6 gear inches.) I
    > tightened the cog by pushing down on a stout chainwhip with my foot.
    > Since then, I have done a couple climbs. I easily broke the cog free,
    > without even warming up first, with a single hop-skid at about 12mph.
    > Essentially, I unweighted the rear, then abruptly weighted it while
    > resisting the pedals. It was truly easy, much easier than jumping up
    > and down on a pedal while the bike is stationary. The tire didn't
    > noticeably skid; the cog just loosened. And you're just wrong.



    Madison, Raleigh fixed. Hey, is this you?
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/FIXEDRAL.JPG

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  8. Vee

    Vee Guest

    A Muzi wrote:
    > > [email protected] wrote:
    > >>IOW, I didn't want to
    > >>leave an easy way for my cog- unscrewing efforts' energy to be lost in
    > >>slippage. I think it was a pretty good setup; the bike couldn't move
    > >>much at all, and I had balance and control much better than I think
    > >>could be done while rolling, testimony of those who say they can
    > >>unscrew tight cogs notwithstanding. "I'd like to see them do it", as
    > >>the saying goes. Still open. --D-y

    >
    > Vee wrote:
    > > Well, come to Madison, WI and watch me. To verify to myself that I'm
    > > not making all this up, a few minutes ago I backed off the lockring on
    > > one of my fixed gears and tried to stimulate what I'm describing as a
    > > panic skid. (Bike setup: cheap old Raleigh Gran Sport with Surly fixed
    > > hub and DA cog. 42x15 with 700x32 tires = 75.6 gear inches.) I
    > > tightened the cog by pushing down on a stout chainwhip with my foot.
    > > Since then, I have done a couple climbs. I easily broke the cog free,
    > > without even warming up first, with a single hop-skid at about 12mph.
    > > Essentially, I unweighted the rear, then abruptly weighted it while
    > > resisting the pedals. It was truly easy, much easier than jumping up
    > > and down on a pedal while the bike is stationary. The tire didn't
    > > noticeably skid; the cog just loosened. And you're just wrong.

    >
    >
    > Madison, Raleigh fixed. Hey, is this you?
    > http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/FIXEDRAL.JPG
    >
    > --
    > Andrew Muzi
    > www.yellowjersey.org
    > Open every day since 1 April, 1971


    No, that's not me. However, my frame apparently did come from the
    Yellow Jersey - it has your sticker on it. It's enormous (25.5"),
    blue, and (even as a fixie) breathtakingly heavy. Two years ago,
    somebody abandoned it in front of BBC's parts and service store, where
    I sometimes work. Stable handling and big tire clearance make it a
    great winter bike.

    -Vee
     
  9. Vee wrote:
    (I wrote):
    > > IOW, I didn't want to
    > > leave an easy way for my cog- unscrewing efforts' energy to be lost in
    > > slippage. I think it was a pretty good setup; the bike couldn't move
    > > much at all, and I had balance and control much better than I think
    > > could be done while rolling, testimony of those who say they can
    > > unscrew tight cogs notwithstanding. "I'd like to see them do it", as
    > > the saying goes. Still open.


    (Vee):
    > Well, come to Madison, WI and watch me. To verify to myself that I'm
    > not making all this up, a few minutes ago I backed off the lockring on
    > one of my fixed gears and tried to stimulate what I'm describing as a
    > panic skid. (Bike setup: cheap old Raleigh Gran Sport with Surly fixed
    > hub and DA cog. 42x15 with 700x32 tires = 75.6 gear inches.) I
    > tightened the cog by pushing down on a stout chainwhip with my foot.
    > Since then, I have done a couple climbs. I easily broke the cog free,
    > without even warming up first, with a single hop-skid at about 12mph.
    > Essentially, I unweighted the rear, then abruptly weighted it while
    > resisting the pedals. It was truly easy, much easier than jumping up
    > and down on a pedal while the bike is stationary. The tire didn't
    > noticeably skid; the cog just loosened. And you're just wrong.


    Your chronology is a little scrambled, but I can envision the
    technique. You're using a longer lever to bust the cog loose, is what
    it amounts to; and the cog loosens before the tire skids.

    Maybe you're the guy who can show me how a FG rider with no brakes can
    stop quicker than a rider with two caliper brakes on his road bike <g>
    (but, open).

    Well, I may be (or have been) "wrong", but at least I'm not out in
    traffic with no brakes. I bet you didn't go swimming, either.

    FWIW, even though a doubter, I put a lock ring on my front-brake-only,
    converted track bike used for a road fixer. Those little "IQ tests of
    life", they're everywhere...

    Maybe I should try a little of that skidding, myself, after all these
    years. Do the colored tires leave colored lines on the pavement? --D-y
     
  10. In article
    <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > Maybe I should try a little of that skidding, myself, after all these
    > years. Do the colored tires leave colored lines on the pavement? --D-y


    I read about skidding a road bicycle, but never did it; I
    did think about it and how folks described the technique.
    One fine day an oncoming car turned left (your other left
    in the UK) into my lane, and me at 30 kph. I put the
    bicycle sideways, avoided a collision, and collapsed the
    rear wheel.

    --
    Michael Press
     
Loading...
Loading...