"train your weaknesses" during the off-season

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Raptor, Feb 13, 2003.

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  1. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness
    is climbing?

    I have been doing a little lifting but sense that my muscles are getting bigger, which is something
    I don't want. I'm a beefy, sprinter type and can max out the leg press machine at the gym.

    I have snowshoes, hiking boots, a gym membership and nearby mountains. I'm dabbling with skating
    with the intent of learning to speed skate. Spinning classes seem to be helping my aerobic capacity,
    but of course it's not the same as riding up a canyon road.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
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  2. "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
    > climbing?

    Go on a diet and lose weight.

    Climbing ability is dictated by the power/weight ratio. Increasing power isn't easy, but losing
    weight is.

    It's not a popular answer since it involves discipline (giving up your Big Macs) in a way that isn't
    the most fun, however, it is the most effective.
     
  3. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
    > climbing?
    >
    > I have been doing a little lifting but sense that my muscles are getting bigger, which is
    > something I don't want. I'm a beefy, sprinter type and can max out the leg press machine at
    > the gym.
    >
    > I have snowshoes, hiking boots, a gym membership and nearby mountains. I'm dabbling with skating
    > with the intent of learning to speed skate. Spinning classes seem to be helping my aerobic
    > capacity, but of course it's not the same as riding up a canyon road.
    >
    I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding. I KNOW that I'm never going to be a skinny
    little climber, so I'd rather concentrate on the things that are going to win me the most races:
    sprints, intervals, and mileage. The upside to this is that you're going to be a hammer in crits and
    flatter rides. The downside is that you're not going to climb as fast as the climbers. Because
    you've been working on your power and stamina, you'll be able to hang longer just 'cause.

    This isn't to say I always avoid hills. Sometimes they're a necessary part of a training plan. My
    hill riding is usually a specific power-oriented repeat type ride, rather than going out and
    indiscriminately riding in the hills.

    I have memories (I was going to say fond, but that's the wrong word for it!) of trainer sessions in
    the winters in VA with friends. I actually LOST fitness in the spring when I started riding outside.

    "Dr." Mike's recommendation: be the best sprinter/rouleur (sp?) that you can be and let the little
    climbers suffer on your wheel on the flats. Go win crits grasshopper!

    > --
    > Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    > could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
    > in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  4. "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.

    I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
    right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

    The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it relative
    to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and win more races. It's far more
    satisfying, IMO, to win a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It means
    that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends merely emphasizing one's
    natural talent.

    A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter to Classics God and Vuelta
    winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics God), Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to winning TdF
    stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider to TdF winner)
    and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI
    #1 ranking).
     
  5. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
    > > climbing?
    >
    >
    >
    > Go on a diet and lose weight.
    >
    > Climbing ability is dictated by the power/weight ratio. Increasing power isn't easy, but losing
    > weight is.

    How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17% to 7%?

    -WG
     
  6. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
    > right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.
    >
    > The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it relative
    > to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and win more races. It's far more
    > satisfying, IMO, to win a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It
    > means that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends merely emphasizing one's
    > natural talent.
    >
    > A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter to Classics God and
    > Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics God), Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to
    > winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider
    > to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT
    > champion, UCI #1 ranking).

    Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to
    be Kurgan.

    -WG
     
  7. "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:130220031846161654%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in
    > > sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.
    > >
    > > The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it
    > > relative to your peers. The upside is that you become
    a
    > > much better rider and win more races. It's far more satisfying, IMO, to
    win
    > > a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It
    means
    > > that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends
    merely
    > > emphasizing one's natural talent.
    > >
    > > A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter
    to
    > > Classics God and Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics
    God),
    > > Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance
    > > Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta
    > > winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI #1 ranking).
    >
    > Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to
    > be Kurgan.

    my guess is either steve taylor or tom kunich. those guys know everything about bike racing.

    heather
     
  8. In article <130220031849202738%[email protected]>, warren <[email protected]> wrote:

    > How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17% to 7%?
    >
    > -WG

    Warren,

    If you are new to cycling, increasing your power at LT by 10% is something that can be done I would
    think, pretty easily.

    If however, you've been training at a high level for a while, I think gaining 10% power at LT would
    be hard. Harder than dropping from 17% to 10% or so.
     
  9. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, chiefhiawatha
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <130220031849202738%[email protected]>, warren <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17% to 7%?
    > >
    > > -WG
    >
    > Warren,
    >
    > If you are new to cycling, increasing your power at LT by 10% is something that can be done I
    > would think, pretty easily.
    >
    > If however, you've been training at a high level for a while, I think gaining 10% power at LT
    > would be hard. Harder than dropping from 17% to 10% or so.

    I've done about 650 races. I have a power sensor on my bike. Mine was a rhetorical question
    for Henry.

    -Warren
     
  10. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
    > right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.
    >
    > The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it relative
    > to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and win more races. It's far more
    > satisfying, IMO, to
    win
    > a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It
    means
    > that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends merely emphasizing one's
    > natural talent.
    >
    > A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter
    to
    > Classics God and Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics God), Djamolodine Abdujaporov
    > (sprinter to winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance Armstrong (power
    > climber/one-day rider to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta winner, stage race
    > GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI #1 ranking).
    >
    >
    Yeah, but if you're a 4, or even a 3 you're better off training strengths. When you're a pro/1/2
    then I'd say you really have to start worrying about things like that.

    I don't want to have cancer, lose most of my muscle mass, and one of my testicles to win climbing
    races. That's pretty much what it'd take for
    me... Even in college when I weighed 155 I couldn't climb for shit.

    Mike
     
  11. "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > Yeah, but if you're a 4, or even a 3 you're better off training strengths. When you're a pro/1/2
    > then I'd say you really have to start worrying about things like that.

    That's precisely why you're a 4 or a 3.
     
  12. "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:130220032202087448%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, chiefhiawatha
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <130220031849202738%[email protected]>, warren
    <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17%
    > > > to 7%?
    > > >
    > > > -WG
    > >
    > > Warren,
    > >
    > > If you are new to cycling, increasing your power at LT by 10% is
    something
    > > that can be done I would think, pretty easily.
    > >
    > > If however, you've been training at a high level for a while, I think gaining 10% power at LT
    > > would be hard. Harder than dropping from 17% to 10% or so.
    >
    > I've done about 650 races. I have a power sensor on my bike. Mine was a rhetorical question
    > for Henry.
    >
    > -Warren

    I've already written that it's easier to lose weight.

    You don't have to train more. You don't need a specialized training program. You don't need to buy
    EPO. All you have to do is eat a lot less. It takes no extra time, therefore there is no valid
    excuse for not doing it except for not having enough desire. Not having enough desire is the most
    valid rationalization of all, however, most people's egos prevent them from acknowledging it.

    I digress. In a way, getting light is harder because you have to overcome a primordial urge. Humans,
    like any other animal, instinctively desire to consume more than they need so they can build up fat
    stores to withstand periods of drought and famine. That's a problem now because there is plenty of
    food in America and drought and the accompanying famine have been overcome by irrigation. Modern
    society has evolved many times faster than the human body, hence our health problems due to
    overconsumption.

    BTW, I was a Fattie Racer (and rationalized it) for 9 years. It wasn't until the last 2 years that I
    tried to race at a light weight and discovered how effective it is.
     
  13. "Maxwell Laycock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in
    > > sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.
    >
    > Lets get this straight mister "Rode my track bike once". You were just better than the other lame
    > local riders.
    >
    > Max

    I raced my track bike for 5+ years.

    And yes, I was just better than most of the other lamos.
     
  14. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Maxwell Laycock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast
    as
    > > > almost anyone in sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a
    plateau
    > > > until I started emphasizing weaknesses.
    > >
    > > Lets get this straight mister "Rode my track bike once". You were just better than the other
    > > lame local riders.
    > >
    > > Max
    >
    >
    >
    > I raced my track bike for 5+ years.
    >
    > And yes, I was just better than most of the other lamos.
    >
    He was faster than I was at the time. Now that ole Henry ain't training, I'd bet that the freds on
    the coast could whup his ass.

    I'd still like to see him and a few other riders c'mon down to the track like they did a few years
    ago. MUCH better racing then!
     
  15. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in sprints
    > right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.

    Lets get this straight mister "Rode my track bike once". You were just better than the other lame
    local riders.

    Max
     
  16. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    ...and happy that I don't HAVE to spend 4-8 hours/day on my bike like the pro/1/2s to be
    competitive!

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > Yeah, but if you're a 4, or even a 3 you're better off training
    strengths.
    > > When you're a pro/1/2 then I'd say you really have to start worrying
    about
    > > things like that.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That's precisely why you're a 4 or a 3.
     
  17. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
    > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
    >>climbing?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Go on a diet and lose weight.
    >
    > Climbing ability is dictated by the power/weight ratio. Increasing power isn't easy, but losing
    > weight is.
    >
    > It's not a popular answer since it involves discipline (giving up your Big Macs) in a way that
    > isn't the most fun, however, it is the most effective.
    >
    >

    Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I never know what to expect when I post to rbr. :)

    I can diet, I think. But my biggest problem is worrying about continuing to train/workout. Having
    been athletic for my whole life, I think of food mainly as fuel for activity. (Not entirely true - I
    like good food like anyone else.) What to say to myself when I worry about running out of energy,
    leading to shorter workouts or worse, injury either minor or severe?

    Looking forward to warm weather when my natural desire to ride leads to that nice skinny waist.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  18. Top Sirloin

    Top Sirloin Guest

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:54:04 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >BTW, I was a Fattie Racer (and rationalized it) for 9 years. It wasn't until the last 2 years that
    >I tried to race at a light weight and discovered how effective it is.

    Are there any studies showing a decreased development rate of the aerobic energy system in a
    hypocaloric state?

    In other words will dieting slow my training progress down (excepting muscle loss)?

    --
    Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
    top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
     
  19. Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
    : aren't good at it relative to your peers. The upside is that you become a much better rider and
    : win more races. It's far more satisfying, IMO, to win a race using a part of your repertoire that
    : used to be a weakness. It means that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment
    : transcends merely emphasizing one's natural talent.

    Yup this can be very satisfying. You can find a really new side in yourself. I think most things I
    do in sports is for the joy of overcoming past weakness. I'm the kind of geeky person who spends the
    time with books and computers, and at school I was rather poor in any sport that requires motor
    skills. So I didn't consider myself very sporty, until I took up snowboarding...

    You can always learn to enjoy new things. I didn't think weight lifting is for me, but some 4 months
    ago I took up resistance training, in a quest to become a faster cyclist :) It gives a new feeling
    to my body! I have come to suspect that many people overemphasize their genetic limitations...

    Funnily enough I've gained weight, which has never happened before. Before I started resistance
    training, I was 61-64 kg, now 66-70 kg. Though it probably has more to do with cycling books'
    motherly advice to "fuel for training and recovery" and eat extra desserts for ample energy supply.

    I'm not worried about excess muscle mass - it helps uphill too! Then again, I mostly do flats, and
    my cycling is not primarily race-oriented.

    --
    Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
     
  20. Chris M

    Chris M Guest

    I think it is a friend of Steve. It is very obvious.

    "heather locklearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:130220031846161654%[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast
    as
    > > > almost anyone in sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a
    plateau
    > > > until I started emphasizing weaknesses.
    > > >
    > > > The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because
    you
    > > > aren't good at it relative to your peers. The upside is that you
    become
    > a
    > > > much better rider and win more races. It's far more satisfying, IMO,
    to
    > win
    > > > a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It
    > means
    > > > that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends
    > merely
    > > > emphasizing one's natural talent.
    > > >
    > > > A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly
    (sprinter
    > to
    > > > Classics God and Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics
    > God),
    > > > Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance
    > > > Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta
    > > > winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI #1 ranking).
    > >
    > > Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to be
    > > Kurgan.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > my guess is either steve taylor or tom kunich. those guys know everything about bike racing.
    >
    >
    >
    > heather
     
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