"train your weaknesses" during the off-season

[Bruce Johnston]

You don't have to diet. Just go on one of those 6 hour starvation rides with you favorite sports
drink on board. I just finished a six hour ride today in the mountains. No breakfast or lunch. The
pain of climbing is greater then the pain of hunger. I don't hit the wall if I use my sports drinks.
I feel hunger but it goes away because the pain of climbing is greater. After doing a bunch of long
rides without breakfast or lunch, the weight will melt off fast. This is dieting on auto pilot. You
don't have to be tempted by food because you don't have any on the bike and can't have any until the
ride is over. I can easily lost weight this way and it's second nature to me. I don't tolerate food
that well on rides anyway. Even today cytomax was giving me a cranky stomach so I just didn't drink
all of it. Still make it without any problems. I have a friend who claims to be hypoglycemic, and he
says if he doesn't eat he will get sick. He eats like a pig constantly. Glad I don't have that
problem but this guy is overweight too.

Bruce

----------------------
"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
> >>climbing?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Go on a diet and lose weight.
> >
> > Climbing ability is dictated by the power/weight ratio. Increasing power isn't easy, but losing
> > weight is.
> >
> > It's not a popular answer since it involves discipline (giving up your
Big
> > Macs) in a way that isn't the most fun, however, it is the most
effective.
> >
> >
>
> Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I never know what to expect when I post to rbr.
>
> I can diet, I think. But my biggest problem is worrying about continuing to train/workout. Having
> been athletic for my whole life, I think of food mainly as fuel for activity. (Not entirely true -
> I like good food like anyone else.) What to say to myself when I worry about running out of
> energy, leading to shorter workouts or worse, injury either minor or severe?
>
> Looking forward to warm weather when my natural desire to ride leads to that nice skinny waist.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Stewart Fleming]

Bruce Johnston wrote:

> You don't have to diet. Just go on one of those 6 hour starvation rides with you favorite sports
> drink on board. I just finished a six hour ride today in

I tested this just by accident today. Weight after waking: 73.5kg (I am 188cm tall) Breakfast: 4
Weetbix + muesli, milk, sugar

Ride to pool: 8km hilly, 0:20 Swim: 2km workout, 1:10 Ride back: 8km hilly, 0:20 Ride to watch local
race and back: 3hrs 15 hilly, 100km. 1 bottle sports drink.

After getting back, eat: 1 litre ice-cream. 1 cup rice and 200g chicken, mixed veg, spaghetti and
cheese. 2 litres sports drink, 2 litres water. 1 carbo gel. 4 pieces of chocolate mud cake. 1 large
hot chocolate with whipped cream.

Weight at end of day: 71.5kg. Probably mostly fluid loss. STF

 

[Bruce Johnston]

I been livng in the mountains, [not hills] for 30 years and the one amazing thing I have always been
aware of is that you never see any casual riders or fat guys out riding. They are all [hard days]
here. There are no easy days. It is pretty much a [do or die] thing. You have to have a certain
level of fitness to climb unlike in the flatlands of the city where you see all kinds of fat guys
out on their bikes. The only ones I ever see here out climbing are local racers and other serious
riders or tourists doing long distance passing through. I can assure you there is no fat on them.
Anyone who rides where I live will lose weight fast if they are consistent. The big climbs are
brutal and they do take the pounds off. I live at the bottom of a very long climb, 6000 ft. of
climbing in just 18 miles. Try doing that several times a week and watch the pounds drop off. I
think climbing is a great and fun way to lose the pounds especially when you are dropping weight and
climbing faster. If you are doing a six hour starvation ride, you burn fat as fuel by supplementing
with sports drinks, IE- Cytomax, Accelerade, etc. For me climbing is my passion, and if I had to go
live in the city where it is all flats, I would probably quit cycling.

Bruce
--------------------------------------
"Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Bruce Johnston wrote:
>
> > You don't have to diet. Just go on one of those 6 hour starvation rides
with
> > you favorite sports drink on board. I just finished a six hour ride
today in
>
> I tested this just by accident today. Weight after waking: 73.5kg (I am 188cm tall) Breakfast: 4
> Weetbix + muesli, milk, sugar
>
> Ride to pool: 8km hilly, 0:20 Swim: 2km workout, 1:10 Ride back: 8km hilly, 0:20 Ride to watch
> local race and back: 3hrs 15 hilly, 100km. 1 bottle sports
drink.
>
> After getting back, eat: 1 litre ice-cream. 1 cup rice and 200g chicken, mixed veg, spaghetti and
> cheese. 2 litres sports drink, 2 litres water. 1 carbo gel. 4 pieces of chocolate mud cake. 1
> large hot chocolate with whipped cream.
>
> Weight at end of day: 71.5kg. Probably mostly fluid loss. STF

 

[Jeff Jones]

Stewart Fleming <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> I tested this just by accident today. Weight after waking: 73.5kg (I am 188cm tall) Breakfast: 4
> Weetbix + muesli, milk, sugar
>
> Ride to pool: 8km hilly, 0:20 Swim: 2km workout, 1:10 Ride back: 8km hilly, 0:20 Ride to watch
> local race and back: 3hrs 15 hilly, 100km. 1 bottle sports drink.
>
> After getting back, eat: 1 litre ice-cream. 1 cup rice and 200g chicken, mixed veg, spaghetti and
> cheese. 2 litres sports drink, 2 litres water. 1 carbo gel. 4 pieces of chocolate mud cake. 1
> large hot chocolate with whipped cream.
>
> Weight at end of day: 71.5kg. Probably mostly fluid loss. STF

Looks a lot like my diet, especially the ice cream part

Fluid loss can be quite deceptive when it comes to losing weight. I've done six hour rides where
I've lost 4-5 kg, despite taking on board 3 litres or so and feeling like it's enough. Until the
last hour that is, when I can't be bothered to stop and want to get home and demolish the freezer.

Within one or two days, it all comes back

Jeff

 

[Bruce Johnston]

"Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Stewart Fleming <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Within one or two days, it all comes back
>
> Jeff

-----------------------------------------------
Yeah, and then it's time to go for another ride and if you keep doing it, the weight stays off. I
agree in the short term it is mostly fluid loss. I remember going out on extremely hot days when I
tolerated the heat better on 8 hour mountain climbing marathrons and coming back home to find out I
lost 10 lbs. After I filled my camel humps with fluid and ate, most of the 10 lbs. came back but
there is fat reduction each time you go out and you can feel it and it shows. You guys are hearty
eaters. I don't eat that much after a big ride because you stomach shrinks after 8 hours with no
breakfast or lunch.. My body is in too much a state of shock. I wait a while and let my system
settle down before I terrorize the frig. I like bananas, the perfect food which I can eat to relieve
hunger before I take on a big meal.

Bruce

 

[Stewart Fleming]

Jeff Jones wrote:

> Looks a lot like my diet, especially the ice cream part
>
> Fluid loss can be quite deceptive when it comes to losing weight. I've done six hour rides where
> I've lost 4-5 kg, despite taking on board 3

The swim workout is what does it for me as far as activating the metabolism is concerned. 10 years
or so ago, after a 2km workout, I would often eat over a kilo of pasta rice and salad as a snack.

After a heat chamber test last month (1:10 at 30C/50% humidity), no fluid, again I lost 2.5kg. After
an 8 hour ride through the Pyrenees some years ago I took in 9 litres of fluid.

It's true what they say about the human thirst reflex - it's totally useless as a cue to drink. I
didn't start getting thirsty on yesterday's ride until 10km from home. Working out how much fluid
per hour you need and sticking to a replacement regime is definitely a good way to maintain
performance over a long session (racing or training). (I need between 1.5 and 2l per hour and in a
race it can get quite difficult to get that down; you also have to be careful with the carbohydrate
concentration so mixing sports drink from powder is usually the best way to go.) STF

 

[Bruce Johnston]

9 L- Remarkable!

Bruce
-------------------
"Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Jeff Jones wrote:
>
> > Looks a lot like my diet, especially the ice cream part
> >
> > Fluid loss can be quite deceptive when it comes to losing weight. I've done six hour rides where
> > I've lost 4-5 kg, despite taking on board 3
>
> The swim workout is what does it for me as far as activating the
metabolism is concerned. 10 years or so ago,
> after a 2km workout, I would often eat over a kilo of pasta rice and salad
as a snack.
>
> After a heat chamber test last month (1:10 at 30C/50% humidity), no fluid,
again I lost 2.5kg. After an 8 hour
> ride through the Pyrenees some years ago I took in 9 litres of fluid.
>
> It's true what they say about the human thirst reflex - it's totally
useless as a cue to drink. I didn't start
> getting thirsty on yesterday's ride until 10km from home. Working out how
much fluid per hour you need and
> sticking to a replacement regime is definitely a good way to maintain
performance over a long session (racing or
> training). (I need between 1.5 and 2l per hour and in a race it can get
quite difficult to get that down; you
> also have to be careful with the carbohydrate concentration so mixing
sports drink from powder is usually the best
> way to go.) STF

 

[Ha'Keedohn]

In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm a pansy when it comes to riding in cold weather, so what should I try if my weakness is
> climbing?
>
> I have been doing a little lifting but sense that my muscles are getting bigger, which is
> something I don't want. I'm a beefy, sprinter type and can max out the leg press machine at
> the gym.
>
> I have snowshoes, hiking boots, a gym membership and nearby mountains. I'm dabbling with skating
> with the intent of learning to speed skate. Spinning classes seem to be helping my aerobic
> capacity, but of course it's not the same as riding up a canyon road.

Lynn,

it's a crime that climbing is your weakness with the resources you have around you to make it a
strength...

I'd climb to Alta twice a week and throw in another climb up Big Cottonwood, all the way to
Guardsman, once a week. Do recovery rides on the flats out west of town on the other days. Use a HR
monitor and work at riding at LTHR for increasing lengths of time each week. Then throw in one climb
per week where you are working above LTHR. It won't hurt any less, but you'll start climbing better.

What?? it's not like you have to compete with any skiers going up the canyons this year!!
--
Ha'Keedohn

To finish the race requires a heart that won't quit when the body begs it to... ...Greg Lemond

 

[Danny Callen]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:130220031846161654%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > I prefer the "train your strengths" approach to riding.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I used to do that. Training for sprints was fun because I was as fast as almost anyone in
> > sprints right from the start. Thing is, I hit a plateau until I started emphasizing weaknesses.
> >
> > The downside of training weaknesses is that it's not as fun because you aren't good at it
> > relative to your peers. The upside is that you become
a
> > much better rider and win more races. It's far more satisfying, IMO, to
win
> > a race using a part of your repertoire that used to be a weakness. It
means
> > that you've transformed yourself and that accomplishment transcends
merely
> > emphasizing one's natural talent.
> >
> > A few professional riders who have managed this are Sean Kelly (sprinter
to
> > Classics God and Vuelta winner), Johan Museeuw (sprinter to Classics
God),
> > Djamolodine Abdujaporov (sprinter to winning TdF stage which ended on Category 3 climb), Lance
> > Armstrong (power climber/one-day rider to TdF winner) and Laurent Jalabert (sprinter to Vuelta
> > winner, stage race GC specialist, World TT champion, UCI #1 ranking).
>
> Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to
> be Kurgan.
>
> -WG

Too bad Henry can't just be himself. I don't get it and I don't really care, if he can make an
intelligent point, I'll bite. Cycling is an interesting sport in that if you don't train your
weaknesses, you may not make it over the hill (for example) to demonstrate your strength in
sprinting (for example) at the finish line. Other sports, track and field and swimming for example
it would be extremely rare for a pure sprinter to be competitive at the Marathon. Those sports (I
think) require you to focus on your strengths. It makes cycling unique by nature. However, in the
examples above, I can't help but think that you're looking at extrordinary atheletes that finally
just reached their real potential. All of the atheletes listed "had it in them", it was inate, it
just needed to "come out". In other words, was Abdu really a true blue sprinter or just a great all
arounder?? I wonder if Cipollini could make that transformation if he "trained" his weaknesses. I'm
not arguing against Henri's post, only wondering if it is possible that all the atheletes mentioned
above always had that natural ability and weren't just built for speed or climbing?

Danny Callen

 

[Amit]

"Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<b2rs8j$to5
> >
> > Wow! An intelligent, thoughtful response to a question. Maybe this is somebody pretending to be
> > Kurgan.
> >
> > -WG
>
> Too bad Henry can't just be himself. I don't get it and I don't really care, if he can make an
> intelligent point, I'll bite.

I think Henry makes lots of intelligent points. People just don't want to face the reality in
his words.

-Amit

 

[Peter Rollason]

Throw this is in for what is worth:-

If you go out on an empty stomach your performance will suffer - so you work less hard. If you have
breakfast - you already have extra calaries, but can work harder so you burn off more - the net
result is the same.

My theory is that one diet doesn't fit all. Some people weight goes up and down with the slightest
change, others can starve themselves or bing, but remain mostly at the same weight.

Me - I lost a stone by going veggie, and totally giving up crisps !

Pete.

"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> 9 L- Remarkable!
>
> Bruce
> -------------------
> "Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Jeff Jones wrote:
> >
> > > Looks a lot like my diet, especially the ice cream part
> > >
> > > Fluid loss can be quite deceptive when it comes to losing weight. I've done six hour rides
> > > where I've lost 4-5 kg, despite taking on board 3
> >
> > The swim workout is what does it for me as far as activating the
> metabolism is concerned. 10 years or so ago,
> > after a 2km workout, I would often eat over a kilo of pasta rice and
salad
> as a snack.
> >
> > After a heat chamber test last month (1:10 at 30C/50% humidity), no
fluid,
> again I lost 2.5kg. After an 8 hour
> > ride through the Pyrenees some years ago I took in 9 litres of fluid.
> >
> > It's true what they say about the human thirst reflex - it's totally
> useless as a cue to drink. I didn't start
> > getting thirsty on yesterday's ride until 10km from home. Working out
how
> much fluid per hour you need and
> > sticking to a replacement regime is definitely a good way to maintain
> performance over a long session (racing or
> > training). (I need between 1.5 and 2l per hour and in a race it can get
> quite difficult to get that down; you
> > also have to be careful with the carbohydrate concentration so mixing
> sports drink from powder is usually the best
> > way to go.) STF
>

 

[Bruce Johnston]

"Peter Rollason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Throw this is in for what is worth:-
>
> If you go out on an empty stomach your performance will suffer - so you
work
> less hard. If you have breakfast - you already have extra calaries, but
can
> work harder so you burn off more - the net result is the same.

That's depends. I used to have breakfast, but it felt like carrying lead around in my stomach,
sometimes cramps and sometimes a sour stomach. I do much better on no breakfast. Last nights dinner
works just fine. I skip lunch too but use Cytomax and that gets me through the day. Nothing worse
then being a long ways from home with a sour stomach. I never ever have any trouble with my stomach,
because there is nothing in it except Cytomax. Snack bars used to bug my stomach too. It hasn't
affected my climbing. Like I said before, the pain of climbing is greater then the pain of hunger.
The evening meal tastes better then ever and I don't overeat because the stomach shrinks after no
food in it all day. If you do a six hour ride like this several times a week, you will lose weight.
I lost too much weight doing it this way, but since I do fewer six hour rides then I used to I
maintain my ideal weight. Also my genes are good. Both my Mom and Dad are thin and that helps me.

> My theory is that one diet doesn't fit all.

Yes, depending on age and many factors, check with your health care professional. I don't recommend
my routine for everyone. It's just something that might work for a lot of people. It's the age old
addage, exercise more and eat less. Lots of people in third world countries probably do exactly what
I do since they don't get enough to eat. I agree that Americans overeat.

Some people weight goes up and
> down with the slightest change, others can starve themselves or bing, but remain mostly at the
> same weight.

I've been there, and that goes for those who struggle to gain weight. When I was younger I couldn't
gain any weight, no matter how much I pigged out. But I know from experience that you can train you
body to lose weight by cycling. It just takes a long time to get your body to accept it, but once it
does it is easy to keep the weight off by cycling. I find cycling to be one of the best ways to lose
weight because the legs can burn more calories then any other part of the body. You always hear
stories of guys losing 30 or 40 pounds by adopting a cycling regimen. Of course runners can say the
same. You can't lost that kind of weight just with your arms, lifting weights, etc. If you can it's
certainly much harder and takes longer. Cycling can take off the pounds fast.

>
> Me - I lost a stone by going veggie, and totally giving up crisps !

Veggie eaters usually don't have a problem because they don't eat meat or dairy products. If
anything they have trouble keeping the weight on.

Bruce
>
> Pete.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > 9 L- Remarkable!
> >
> > Bruce
> > -------------------
> > "Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > > Looks a lot like my diet, especially the ice cream part
> > > >
> > > > Fluid loss can be quite deceptive when it comes to losing weight.
I've
> > > > done six hour rides where I've lost 4-5 kg, despite taking on board
3
> > >
> > > The swim workout is what does it for me as far as activating the
> > metabolism is concerned. 10 years or so ago,
> > > after a 2km workout, I would often eat over a kilo of pasta rice and
> salad
> > as a snack.
> > >
> > > After a heat chamber test last month (1:10 at 30C/50% humidity), no
> fluid,
> > again I lost 2.5kg. After an 8 hour
> > > ride through the Pyrenees some years ago I took in 9 litres of fluid.
> > >
> > > It's true what they say about the human thirst reflex - it's totally
> > useless as a cue to drink. I didn't start
> > > getting thirsty on yesterday's ride until 10km from home. Working out
> how
> > much fluid per hour you need and
> > > sticking to a replacement regime is definitely a good way to maintain
> > performance over a long session (racing or
> > > training). (I need between 1.5 and 2l per hour and in a race it can
get
> > quite difficult to get that down; you
> > > also have to be careful with the carbohydrate concentration so mixing
> > sports drink from powder is usually the best
> > > way to go.) STF
> > >
> >
>

 

[Fstrnu]

Dumb ass.

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:130220032202087448%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, chiefhiawatha
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <130220031849202738%[email protected]>, warren
<[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > How hard would it be to increase power by 10% compared to reducing bodyfat from say, 17%
> > > to 7%?
> > >
> > > -WG
> >
> > Warren,
> >
> > If you are new to cycling, increasing your power at LT by 10% is
something
> > that can be done I would think, pretty easily.
> >
> > If however, you've been training at a high level for a while, I think gaining 10% power at LT
> > would be hard. Harder than dropping from 17% to 10% or so.
>
> I've done about 650 races. I have a power sensor on my bike. Mine was a rhetorical question
> for Henry.
>
> -Warren

 

[Risto Varanka]

Bruce Johnston <[email protected]> wrote:
: That's depends. I used to have breakfast, but it felt like carrying lead around in my stomach,
: sometimes cramps and sometimes a sour stomach. I do much better on no breakfast. Last nights
: dinner works just fine. I skip

Food is supposed to leave the stomach in a few hours, so maybe one could go riding after that. On
long rides I usually eat a light lunch or dinner too... eg. a pair of sandwiches. If I'm running,
eating is much more critical... if I've eaten anything for say 2 last hours and I run at an
anaerobic pace, I do get some stomach problems, ie. nausea. No problems when cycling. I attribute it
to the jumping up-down movement when running, makes even drinking a bit more difficult...

:> Me - I lost a stone by going veggie, and totally giving up crisps !

I lost 2 kg going veggie, but I was quite young at that time. Weight been pretty stable since that,
but could be because of cycling too Since last October, I've gained some 5 kg, though...

: Veggie eaters usually don't have a problem because they don't eat meat or dairy products. If
: anything they have trouble keeping the weight on.

Hmm dunno, I'd think one would be able to maintain an ideal weight with a sufficient, balanced diet.
You could be a veggie and still eat loads of ****, though veggies probably are quite
health-conscious in several aspects. Also don't confuse plain veggies with vegans.

: Bruce

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi