Trainer time vs. Road time

[EoinC]

Originally posted by edd
and..... get a metronome cheapest training aid around

Is that the City-version of the little plaster bloke who sits in gardens with a fishing rod??? Ha, Ha.

 

[EoinC]

But, a 1:2 ratio seems like it may be a bit optimistic. [/B]

Here is a purely psychological take on this. I keep a journal on my riding. I currently have a 1.0/1.5 Road/Trainer ratio locked in (based on an ignorant guess).
Contributing factors:
I start work at 05:30 to 06:00 and finish about 18:30 to 19:30 therefore my road riding is usually in the dark. I live in Kual Lumpur with atrocious traffic (suicide drivers and major lock-up traffic jams) and smokey buses. These factors should make riding on the trainer appealing.
Findings:
At the ratio of 1.0/1.5, I still find it much, much easier to gain points (minutes x average speed) by riding on the road. This I put down entirely to the distraction factor. No video or music can grab my attention the way 2 tons of hi-speed lane-changer can. On the road I don't notice the time slipping by - on the trainer I certainly do. I'm going to have to adjust the ratio if I'm to get back onto the trainer.
As I said, this is purely the psychological side of it and does not reflect on the physical benefits of the two methods of training.

Eoin

 

[EoinC]

Originally posted by scottmoroschan
Plus, the controlled environment of riding indoors has a temendous potential to be a very specific training tool that can bring about safe, and effective training stresses

I wish you'd told me that when I was 15 and had just bought my first set of rollers. Trying to do a stand-up sprint in top gear in my mother's bathroom (the only place I found a bench at the right height to hold onto starting off) saw me come off the safe and effective training tool and go flying through a startling array of perfume and shampoo bottles. You want to know about training stresses? You should have met my mother after the roller debut!

Eoin

 

[edd]

Originally posted by EoinC
Is that the City-version of the little plaster bloke who sits in gardens with a fishing rod??? Ha, Ha.

yeah... and he goes ta, ta, ta.. and waves his finger.

 

[edd]

Originally posted by Aztec
I think Charmichael goes with something like 85-90% trainer to road time.

I'm a nobody and I see the value in spending two thirds plus of my training time on an indoor trainer... because of the quality of the sessions, absolutely... no argument.. worth twice the training time spent on the road...nuh can't agree

.....the time on the road is just as valuable for a whole host of reasons, there is more to it then just aerobic conditioning

Oh yeah, another thing...we ride hills, big bloody hills.

 

[EoinC]

Originally posted by edd
Oh yeah, another thing...we ride hills, big bloody hills.

I used to do hills with my trainer....but then I found it was easier to take the trainer off and carry the bike over them on its own. Some of those trainers are bloody heavy.

 

[EoinC]

Trainer? Is that what that Mag-turbo thing is? I thought a Parking Inspector had put a Wheel Clamp on my bike!

 

[edd]

Originally posted by EoinC
I used to do hills with my trainer....but then I found it was easier to take the trainer off and carry the bike over them on its own. Some of those trainers are bloody heavy.

And bloody agumentitive to boot... I told mine he had to buy himself his own bike, I wasn't doubling him no more !

 

[Doctor Morbius]

Personally, I like trainer time. For me though, it is done on a stationary bike as I don't yet have a trainer. I don't know enough about them to know which type/kind to get and it is almost nice enough outside to ride outdoors now anyway.

I find training indoors is a great way to get in all of that 65% - 70% MaxHR training time. For me that is only 120 - 130 BPM. If I get on one of my bikes and ride outside it is a real struggle to keep my HR that low. I'd have to ride at 8 MPH!

I watch the Sci-Fi Channel while logging in my 90 minute sessions. Nothing like working out to The Legendary Journeys of Hercules! Sometimes I'll break them up into four 20-ish minute sessions and do a few supersets of weights or calisthenics in between as kind of an interval training session. Seems to work well for me.

 

[EoinC]

Originally posted by EoinC
As I said, this is purely the psychological side of it and does not reflect on the physical benefits of the two methods of training.

I should also point out that my road work is on a fixed-wheel so I don't get the same coasting rest times as a freewheel, and the traffic lights give me all the interval work I could ask for (often a bloody sight more than I asked for). My "bike time" is from the computer and so, as soon as I get down to zero kph, the clock stops moving forward. Since I do bike-stands at the lights, I don't think I get much rest time at all when I'm on the road.
The trainer gives me the chance to spin for an extended period (without running up someone's clacker), but it doesn't provide me with the same mental stimulation as overtaking a driver who just cut me off. Damn, that must be the aggressive side of my passive/aggressive personality coming out again.
Pour moi -> Trainer = Sweat; Road = Sweat + Fun.

Eoin

 

[chuck luck]

Since I started doing 2 hour blocks of 70% MHR uninterupted, constant, no variation, just quality modest load work on the trainer... improvement has gone through the roof.

stop start is a mistake....

stop start with threshold work only !

and and and..... get a metronome cheapest training aid around

WOW!!! Never even thought of using my metronome for cadence checks. What a good idea.

 

[edd]

WOW!!! Never even thought of using my metronome for cadence checks. What a good idea.

see this thread has got a new life...

Thing I noticed.. I can sustain a high work load for a longer time on the road. if you ride with some fit buggers you do what you have to do to keep up. Thing is, I could not do this every day of the week. Just too bloody hard.

Indoor trainer is good for the midweek stuff.. build or maintain the aerobic base conditioning and good for short very hard intervals. we do 2 hour blocks twice a week at 70% to 80% max heart rate. and 1 minute, 3 min, 6 min, or 12 min intervals once a week. Depending on what period we are in. And I'm sure all this really helps, but the 100 k weekend ride is ( I think ) what really gives us the appropriate training stimulus to improve.

 

[chuck luck]

see this thread has got a new life...

Thing I noticed.. I can sustain a high work load for a longer time on the road. if you ride with some fit buggers you do what you have to do to keep up. Thing is, I could not do this every day of the week. Just too bloody hard.

Indoor trainer is good for the midweek stuff.. build or maintain the aerobic base conditioning and good for short very hard intervals. we do 2 hour blocks twice a week at 70% to 80% max heart rate. and 1 minute, 3 min, 6 min, or 12 min intervals once a week. Depending on what period we are in. And I'm sure all this really helps, but the 100 k weekend ride is ( I think ) what really gives us the appropriate training stimulus to improve.

Sounds as if you have some people to ride with that motivate you to a new plateau. During the spring and summer I do alot of MTB group rides but fail to ride much in the winter. However,this fall I went and bought a mag trainer and would also like to join up with a group that rides road but I'm afraid I'll get scoffed at with my wanta-be road bike: my mountain bike with slicks. Training is going good and I just started a training log which has inspired me to stick with it but, yeah riding with a group makes you raise the bar on your fitness,especially if their as fit as you.
So how many trainer rides vs road rides do you accomplish during a week?
How many rest days in a week and what is the best day to take one? Do you ever take multiple days off?

 

[palewin]

Here's the answer to the original question from Carmichael's book:
"For the vast majority of athletes I recommend limiting your indoor training sessions to a maximum of 2.5 hours. And when converting any outdoor training ride to an indoor workout, reduce the total ride length by 20%. For rides of equal duration, you will generally expend more energy on an indoor trainer, compared with outdoors, due to the lack of stop signs, traffic lights, and descents. Your primary focus indoors should be to complete your specific workout tasks, rather than to complete the total workout time."

"Conversion of Outdoor to Indoor Ride Time
2.5 hours outdoor = 2 hours indoor (approx.)
2.0 hours outdoor = 1.5 hours indoor
1.5 hours outdoor = 1.25 hours indoor
1.0 hours outdoor = 45 minutes indoor"

 

[edd]

Sounds as if you have some people to ride with that motivate you to a new plateau. During the spring and summer I do alot of MTB group rides but fail to ride much in the winter. However,this fall I went and bought a mag trainer and would also like to join up with a group that rides road but I'm afraid I'll get scoffed at with my wanta-be road bike: my mountain bike with slicks. Training is going good and I just started a training log which has inspired me to stick with it but, yeah riding with a group makes you raise the bar on your fitness,especially if their as fit as you.
So how many trainer rides vs road rides do you accomplish during a week?
How many rest days in a week and what is the best day to take one? Do you ever take multiple days off?

I'm an old bugger, 56 this Jan, so I need more recovery then younger folk.
I, (we) do pretty much the same volume of training all year round, though we train in 4 week periods, the forth week being a recovery week where we will cut the intensity or length of our road ride down as well.

We'll start this year with 8 weeks of base work, both indoor and outdoor,
Then straight into interval work for the indoor stuff.

We do a road ride which is anything from 45k to 120k every weekend, maybe Sat maybe Sun, weather etc. Mondays 2 hours indoors
Tues rest day, Wed 2 hours indoors, Thurs 45 min indoors, hard intervals, Friday rest day,

Our road rides change a bit with the weather, June July is coldish in Sydney so we start late and often do hill repeats in a location with little road traffic.

We are not too serious about it all. But I'm going to start time trialing this comming yeah.

I think the road rides will help you as a MTBer, cause one of the bods who sometimes rides with us says the road work was longer and more sustained and this help is base fitness heaps. I'd get a cheap road bike about 9kg., a MTB with slicks won't keep up with the roadies.

Let em scoff, who give a **** what some big head thinks, just don't let em drop you

 

[wiredued]

I find monitoring my heart rate and trying to stay at 85% of max to be a great diversion from the indoor boredom it is a challenge for me to maintian that and the time flies by.

Is riding an indoor trainer equivilant to riding on the road, if the time and intensity are the same? I find that spending 90 minutes in Zone 2-3 on the road is much easier (in effort and comfort) than on the trainer.

Thanks.