training advice for HRM?

[ric_stern/RST]

I think solar means a PMC with ATL/CTL/TSB using a weighted average TSS-like number generated from HR data, not power data. Mind you I think you're simply better off estimating a TSS rather than trying to interpret HR data that way (I would very much doubt CP would bother to develop such a tool).

missing power data. i think you're best off estimating it rather than using HR to work it out.

ric

 

[SolarEnergy]

I think solar means a PMC with ATL/CTL/TSB using a weighted average TSS-like number generated from HR data, not power data. Mind you I think you're simply better off estimating a TSS rather than trying to interpret HR data that way (I would very much doubt CP would bother to develop such a tool).

That would be a fairly logical development given that Training Peaks group claim to be well adapted to triathletes.

TRIMP is still the way to go in this field in my opinion. Especially here up north, where at least 1 third of the (elite) triathlete pool also train and compete in cross country ski (sorry for this non-scientific survey).

I can't understand why estimating TSS out of HR would be more accurate than generating PMC out of HR without going through the extra step of converting it to TSS first.

One way or the other, you're still using HR.

 

[amartinez]

As a triathlete I also have several years of training data logged with a Polar HRM in Polar Precision Performance Software and 8 months of PT data in WKO+.

I´ve run a linear regression between the PPP Exertion Count (TRIMPs like value) and WKO+ Tss with more than 100 data points and R^2>0.86.

Even when this is "n=1 experiment" , I think that Exertion Count could be a nice input to PMC (or a PMC-like spreadsheet) if you don't have power data (actual values of CTL/ATL will not be Tss/d but Exertion Count/d).

Even when you have power data, the linear eq. (with your own data) can be used to estimate TSS for no-PM rides (in my case MTB rides or when using race wheels).

 

[jbvcoaching]

missing power data. i think you're best off estimating it rather than using HR to work it out.

Even considering the original poster has never used a PM, andhas no ideawhat an IF is? How would you go about calibrating his PE to match up with any kind of training load?

I'm not being rhetorical, I'm really curious.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Even considering the original poster has never used a PM, andhas no ideawhat an IF is? How would you go about calibrating his PE to match up with any kind of training load?

I'm not being rhetorical, I'm really curious.

good point. i hadn't read the thread in entirety. i was just saying what i do. my bad.

ric

 

[jbvcoaching]

Power Meters are still ridiculously expensive at this point in time so i would suggest investing your money in something else that will improve your performance. As you are about to enter the U19 cat. you might want to look at a good set of race wheels. Remember that apart fron the engine, the wheels are the most important part of the bike.

I can't disagree with this strongly enough. Wheels won't make him a better bike racer, a coach and/or a powermeter can. Consider them gifts that keep on giving.

Have you seen Dr. Jeukendrup's table as it applies to where to focus first on improvements for athletes?

I'm sure you will definately reach the goals you have set out to achieve in the future. You are keen, enthusiastic and hungry.
That's what i like to see.

Well, that sentiment I can agree with.

 

[dm69]

Thanks for the opinions. I still think adding a bit of muscle is a good idea and a bit of variety wont hurt either (swimming). The guys I will be racing against would have to be 70-80kg's on average and I am only 59kg's so an extra 3-5kg's in my legs wont hurt.

One way or another I will be training my **** off and I doubt not having a power meter will hold me back too much. Thats not to say a new set of wheels will doing anything either!

I am going to guess that my best approach is to go flat out during intervals and use my HR as a "guide" and hope that I can keep up the intensity throughout the whole Interval? Thats pretty much what I do now but it would be nice to have a PM to take the guesswork out of it.

I will keep you all updated on how I go in my training/ racing with a HRM...hopefully I will have the cash soon to get a PM.

PS: I do have a coach of sorts. I ride with a guy around here who is very knowledgeable and gives me advice every week on what I should be doing in training. I do have the option of letting this guy coach me full time. IE having him set a daily-weekly-monthly-yearly plan where he gives me workouts to do each day and I just do what I am told. I had a go at this a few months a go but I didn't like it and gave it up after a few bad results. I know train to my own plan and use his words of wisdom and advice to construct a personal programme.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

PS: I do have a coach of sorts. I ride with a guy around here who is very knowledgeable and gives me advice every week on what I should be doing in training. I do have the option of letting this guy coach me full time. IE having him set a daily-weekly-monthly-yearly plan where he gives me workouts to do each day and I just do what I am told. I had a go at this a few months a go but I didn't like it and gave it up after a few bad results. I know train to my own plan and use his words of wisdom and advice to construct a personal programme.

I can't tell if the last sentence is referring to your current advisor/coach? If it is, try another coach, and if it isn't this current coach could be much better than his predecessor

ric

 

[dm69]

I can't tell if the last sentence is referring to your current advisor/coach? If it is, try another coach, and if it isn't this current coach could be much better than his predecessor

ric

nah its the same guy thats "advising" me know who was coaching me before if that makes sense . I think the mistake he made was training me like he would train himself. He seems to get good results by breaking up the training into different segments ie. 4 weeks base, 3 weeks se, 3 weeks TT work, 1 week intervals/ spinning, 1 week recovery then the "big race". When I got to the "big race" I was terrible and I know why but he seems to be stubborn on this point.

I believe I needed WAY more variety. Yeah I made dramatic improvements in my endurance when I was doing base, Yeah I made great SE improvements when I was doing SE but I sucked at everything else! I came 2nd in a junior tour in my first ever junior race and was very proud of myself and thought I would have a big year. I decided to put myself in the hands of this more experienced rider and let him do his work. At the big race I was finishing 15 minutes per stage behind the guys who I pulverised in my first race. They improved and I went backwards! Now this dude is a wealth of knowledge and is very well respected by me and others around here but the way he trains doesn't work for me. I get a long very well with him and he gives me advice and a good chat for free once a week. The only other coach I have access to costs $100 a month which I can't afford and to be honest I doubt he is any better than my current "advisor".

I will look into your services RIC but I don't think its an option because I will lack the "personal touch" and as you would know I disagree with a lot of your theories on training . Step 1 for me is buying a powermeter and becoming as knowledgeable as I can on cycling training so I can do it myself. After that I need a bike and a proper coach. Hopefully this formula coupled with good studies at school and consistent after school work for $$$ will equal success and hopefully a profssional contract. This will take up to 5-10 years as I started fairly late (15yo.).

 

[ric_stern/RST]

nah its the same guy thats "advising" me know who was coaching me before if that makes sense . I think the mistake he made was training me like he would train himself. He seems to get good results by breaking up the training into different segments ie. 4 weeks base, 3 weeks se, 3 weeks TT work, 1 week intervals/ spinning, 1 week recovery then the "big race". When I got to the "big race" I was terrible and I know why but he seems to be stubborn on this point.

I believe I needed WAY more variety. Yeah I made dramatic improvements in my endurance when I was doing base, Yeah I made great SE improvements when I was doing SE but I sucked at everything else! I came 2nd in a junior tour in my first ever junior race and was very proud of myself and thought I would have a big year. I decided to put myself in the hands of this more experienced rider and let him do his work. At the big race I was finishing 15 minutes per stage behind the guys who I pulverised in my first race. They improved and I went backwards! Now this dude is a wealth of knowledge and is very well respected by me and others around here but the way he trains doesn't work for me. I get a long very well with him and he gives me advice and a good chat for free once a week. The only other coach I have access to costs $100 a month which I can't afford and to be honest I doubt he is any better than my current "advisor".

I will look into your services RIC but I don't think its an option because I will lack the "personal touch" and as you would know I disagree with a lot of your theories on training . Step 1 for me is buying a powermeter and becoming as knowledgeable as I can on cycling training so I can do it myself. After that I need a bike and a proper coach. Hopefully this formula coupled with good studies at school and consistent after school work for $$$ will equal success and hopefully a profssional contract. This will take up to 5-10 years as I started fairly late (15yo.).

I feel that people who 'coach' people in the way that they did well (as your advisor did) rather than using evidence based techniques isn't going to be a very good 'coach'.

I don't understand why you'd lose the personal touch with me (unless you mean actually physically being in the same area as me). Why would you disagree with them, when they're evidence based, and you're using techniques that don't work??

And, am i to take it you think i'm not a "proper coach"?

Ric

 

[dm69]

I feel that people who 'coach' people in the way that they did well (as your advisor did) rather than using evidence based techniques isn't going to be a very good 'coach'.

I don't understand why you'd lose the personal touch with me (unless you mean actually physically being in the same area as me). Why would you disagree with them, when they're evidence based, and you're using techniques that don't work??

And, am i to take it you think i'm not a "proper coach"?

Ric

I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about and are a very good coach. here are the theories that we could agree to disagree on: Weight Training & Some base training. Personally I believe a bit of strength training is a good idea and I must make it clear that I will be doing a bit sprinting/ trackwork this summer. I also think base training is a good idea before you get into intensity work. I am not talking cruising around at 17mph for a few months. Base for me is 600-700km's a week doing efforts in the hills, headwinds and sprints as I feel like it and racing on the weekends.

When you post on this forum I immediately take notice and respect your opinion more than anyone else around here. It just so happens I disagree with you on a few minor details.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about and are a very good coach. here are the theories that we could agree to disagree on: Weight Training & Some base training. Personally I believe a bit of strength training is a good idea and I must make it clear that I will be doing a bit sprinting/ trackwork this summer. I also think base training is a good idea before you get into intensity work. I am not talking cruising around at 17mph for a few months. Base for me is 600-700km's a week doing efforts in the hills, headwinds and sprints as I feel like it and racing on the weekends.

When you post on this forum I immediately take notice and respect your opinion more than anyone else around here. It just so happens I disagree with you on a few minor details.

for some people, your base would be similar to what i'd prescribe

ric

 

[dm69]

for some people, your base would be similar to what i'd prescribe

ric

Well we can tick that disagreement off the list. . I too can't stand people who aren't prepared to push themselves in training. You can't improve if you don't want to raise the bar.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Well we can tick that disagreement off the list. . I too can't stand people who aren't prepared to push themselves in training. You can't improve if you don't want to raise the bar.

by and large i include some moderate and high intensity training all year round. There's some obvious exceptions to this (e.g., i've just gotten over sinusitis, had a fortnight off, and all i can do is grovel at very low power outputs )