Training and music



jogger wrote:
>
> Tom Phillips wrote:
> >
> > I've never heard a runner grunt. What is it your doing
> > when running to make yourself grunt?
>
> 'twas only meant as an illustration of how "exciting" <not!> I find
> listening to myself during most exercise. Although I maybe do really
> grunt skating up steep long hills. And sometimes I "grrrrr" when
> running and I'm getting annoyed with myself, hope that's OK.
> ;)


The problem I see is with other people who hear not
your music but your guttural, primeval utterances. If I
clear my throat too loudly when running people look
at me like I'm conversing with a schizophrenic alter
ego :)

Of course I suppose the catchy tunes reverberating in
one's brain make oblivious the bystander's rubbernecked
gawkings at a bizzare phenomenon trotting down the road ;)
 
Lanceandrew wrote:

>it's not comforting to view behavior through the context
> of "conditioning"...and our motivation to alter our natural state...

Why is it "not comforting"? Even running in it's own right is an attempt
to alter our natural state. (Just ask yourself if you know people
addicted to running to see that this is true.) There was a study that
found that an hour of running released chemicals in the brain very
similar to those acquired by smoking pot.

When one becomes a Tantric adept, one can live this life in one's
natural state, but until then illusion will cloud one's view most of the time.

carry on,
-J
 
Tom Phillips wrote:
>
> The problem I see is with other people who hear not
> your music but your guttural, primeval utterances. If I
> clear my throat too loudly when running people look
> at me like I'm conversing with a schizophrenic alter
> ego :)
>
> Of course I suppose the catchy tunes reverberating in
> one's brain make oblivious the bystander's rubbernecked
> gawkings at a bizzare phenomenon trotting down the road ;)

Hey, you may have something. Now that I think about it, people always
smile at me when I'm running- even those normally surly city bus
drivers. Finally, I know why! I look and sound funny. I had wondered,
you know...

lol,
-J
 
jogger wrote:
>
> Lanceandrew wrote:
>
> >it's not comforting to view behavior through the context
> > of "conditioning"...and our motivation to alter our natural state...
>
> Why is it "not comforting"? Even running in it's own right is an attempt
> to alter our natural state. (Just ask yourself if you know people
> addicted to running to see that this is true.)

Disagreement here. Zen Buddhist runners may imagine running
as an altered state of being. But in fact running in my view
is the natural human state, whereas what people typically do
(sit and engage in the modern phenomenon of keystroke activity)
is highly physically unnatural.

>There was a study that
> found that an hour of running released chemicals in the brain very
> similar to those acquired by smoking pot.

I don't think running produces THC (tetrahydrocannabinol)
which binds to certain protein receptors in the brain and
causes that old familiar high amongst current or former pot
heads :)


> When one becomes a Tantric adept, one can live this life in one's
> natural state, but until then illusion will cloud one's view most of the time.

hmmm... didn't running as a sport (the "marathon," etc.)
originate with the greeks, not hindu/buddhist metaphysical
musings? Seems to me greek religion was never about achieving
self enlightened karma or altered states of spiritual being.
Rather about as much self indugent vulgar passion as possible :)

> carry on,
> -J
 
Tom Phillips wrote:
>

> Disagreement here. Zen Buddhist runners may imagine running
> as an altered state of being. But in fact running in my view
> is the natural human state, whereas what people typically do
> (sit and engage in the modern phenomenon of keystroke activity)
> is highly physically unnatural.

OK, but listening to music is also a natural state of being, although in
the past music was much more "simple" and wasn't delivered through
portable headphones, I agree. I think people shouldn't run while
listening to music because running is just a distraction from the
natural state of music listening!

> I don't think running produces THC (tetrahydrocannabinol)
> which binds to certain protein receptors in the brain and
> causes that old familiar high amongst current or former pot
> heads :)

Well, I don't know much about it, I just read it here
http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/01/11/marijuana.exercise.reut/index.html

Maybe it's bunk, but it amuses me.

> Seems to me greek religion was never about achieving
> self enlightened karma or altered states of spiritual being.
> Rather about as much self indugent vulgar passion as possible :)

Oh, come. One of the most famous Greek sayings is "Know thyself".

Now I must go off and indulge in my legal acquisition of cannabinoids (jogging),
-J
 
On 2004-12-11, jogger <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I think people shouldn't run while
> listening to music because running is just a distraction from the
> natural state of music listening!

I know you intend this partly in jest, but it does not contradict the
idea that you shouldn't distract yourself with music while running. The idea
of mindfullness in buddhist philosophy basically involves doing one thing at
a time, focusing on the here-and-now, and not being distracted. Eating is
OK, listening to music is OK, running is OK, having a phone conversation is
also just fine -- but attempting to do all of these things at the same time
is not recommended!

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
On 2004-12-10, Lanceandrew <[email protected]> wrote:
> experiencing or engaging in anything...is more redeeming & rewarding when you
> take that and those moments "in"...100% in full/total with no foreign
> distraction.

Who says music can't be part of the experience ? Haile Gebreselassie apparently
likes to have "scatman" playing so that he can try to maintain his (somewhat
rapid) turnover rate in time with the music.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
>There was a study that
>found that an hour of running released chemicals in the brain very
>similar to those acquired by smoking pot.

You moron. It was similar to morphine, not pot.
 
>OK, but listening to music is also a natural state of being,

You really are an idiot, aren't you? Please show us where music occurs
naturally in nature?
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> I know you intend this partly in jest, but it does not contradict the
> idea that you shouldn't distract yourself with music while running.

Yep, I agree, it doesn't work as an argument against it. But I was
hoping to point out that running itself can be a "crutch". (And I know
nobody has said that it couldn't, never fear :)

Personally- stress that word :) -over the past 6 years I've gone through
stretches of no music, followed by stretches of music and then repeat. I
haven't noticed a big difference between either, except in the no music
stage I'm less motivated to go hard and tend to "float" more. I don't
really focus more on what I'm doing though- my brain will make it's own
distractions if I don't provide it with one. Guess I'll never make a
good buddhist...

-J
 
jogger wrote:
>
> Tom Phillips wrote:
> >
>
> > Disagreement here. Zen Buddhist runners may imagine running
> > as an altered state of being. But in fact running in my view
> > is the natural human state, whereas what people typically do
> > (sit and engage in the modern phenomenon of keystroke activity)
> > is highly physically unnatural.
>
> OK, but listening to music is also a natural state of being, although in
> the past music was much more "simple" and wasn't delivered through
> portable headphones, I agree. I think people shouldn't run while
> listening to music because running is just a distraction from the
> natural state of music listening!

Ah, but as you say headset delivered music isn't natural!
Nor is any amplified electronic music. It's technology :)

> > I don't think running produces THC (tetrahydrocannabinol)
> > which binds to certain protein receptors in the brain and
> > causes that old familiar high amongst current or former pot
> > heads :)
>
> Well, I don't know much about it, I just read it here
> http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/01/11/marijuana.exercise.reut/index.html
>
> Maybe it's bunk, but it amuses me.

Reporting silly studies left and right is a favorite
CNN ploy to lengthen viewer's attention spans. It's
intended to entertain. But I note it also reports "Some
scientists, however, say the concept is a myth."

> > Seems to me greek religion was never about achieving
> > self enlightened karma or altered states of spiritual being.
> > Rather about as much self indugent vulgar passion as possible :)
>
> Oh, come. One of the most famous Greek sayings is "Know thyself".

I think that was Socrates' philosophy, And we all
know what the greeks did to Socrates ;)

There was also the Epicurean "Eat, drink, for tomorrow we
die." The greeks were a warrior civilization. Sparta was
more influential than Athens in the overall culture.
Spartans (and Athens wouldn't have survived and flourished
without the Spartans) took their children away from thier
families and subjected them to all sorts of physical and
homosexual abuse in order to make the into hardened unified,
codependent warrior societies that could conquer the world.
The "gods" they worshiped were based on human passions (sex,
violence, intrigue, etc.)


> Now I must go off and indulge in my legal acquisition of cannabinoids (jogging),

If true, may give new insight into ultra motivations :)
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> Eating is OK, listening to music is OK...having a phone conversation
> is also just fine -- but attempting to do all of these things at the
> same time is not recommended!

The typical American does all these while at the same
time steering a 2000-pound SUV down the road.

Runners beware and take those silly headsets off! :)
 
FabulustRunner wrote:
>
> >OK, but listening to music is also a natural state of being,
>
> You really are an idiot, aren't you? Please show us where music occurs
> naturally in nature?

Whistling and singing. Song birds, etc.
 
>Whistling and singing. Song birds, etc.

Doesn't sound at all like "Killing in the name of" by Rage against the machine,
nor does it sound like "A pocket full of shells", or like "big tymers, big
cars". So your full of ****.
 
FabulustRunner wrote:
>
> >Whistling and singing. Song birds, etc.
>
> Doesn't sound at all like "Killing in the name of" by Rage against the machine,
> nor does it sound like "A pocket full of shells", or like "big tymers, big
> cars". So your full of ****.

And I bet you go pick your running shoes off of your Asics bush growing
in your yard when you are in need of a new pair, right?

-J
 
Tom Phillips wrote:

> Reporting silly studies left and right is a favorite
> CNN ploy to lengthen viewer's attention spans. It's
> intended to entertain. But I note it also reports "Some
> scientists, however, say the concept is a myth."

Well, the full quote is
"The "runner's high" theory emerged in the United States during the
running craze of
the 1970s, when researchers discovered the brain's opiate receptors,
which are
proteins located on the surface of nerve cells. Some scientists,
however, say the concept is a myth. "

I don't think they are saying that they don't believe that higb levels
of anandamide were found in the test subjects.

> There was also the Epicurean "Eat, drink, for tomorrow we
> die."

If you truly believe (and I actually think you just enjoy b.s'ing about
this stuff the way I also do) that we should base our attitude towards
running on the Greek outlook of "Eat, drink, for tomorrow we die"
because they started the sport of running, then it seems to me that you
should be in favor of people listening to music while running if it
increases their enjoyment (for tomorrow they may die).

I mostly enjoy just rambling on about this stuff, have enjoyed this
thread, but I'll almost always argue sincerely against someone telling
others that they aren't doing things "right" (even if perhaps they have
a valid point).

-J
"There was once an illiterate cowherd who did not know how to pray, so
instead he would say to God: "Master of the Universe, you know that if
you had cows and you gave them to me to look after I would do it for
nothing, even though I take wages from everyone else. I would do it for
you for nothing because I love you." A certain sage chanced upon the
cowherd and heard him praying in this manner. The sage said to him, "you
fool, you must not pray like that." The cowherd asked him how he should
pray, and the sage set about teaching him the order of prayers as they
are found in the prayerbook. After the sage went away the cowherd soon
forgot what he had been taught and so he did not pray at all. He was
afraid to say his usual prayer about God's cows because the sage had
told him that it was wrong to say such things, on the other hand he
could not say what the sage had told him because it was all jumbled up
in his mind. That night the sage was reprimanded in a dream and told
that unless the cowherd returned to his spontaneous prayer great harm
would befall the sage, for he had stolen something very precious away
from God." (Teachings of the Jewish Mystics)
 
<< Well, the full quote is
"The "runner's high" theory emerged in the United States during the
running craze of
the 1970s, when researchers discovered the brain's opiate receptors,
which are
proteins located on the surface of nerve cells. Some scientists.....etc.>

Or see: Ms.
Pina Kolata. Also see her
Obit, Ms.
Dolly, too ~
That sassy, classy Ms.
Sheep!

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
 
<< -J
"There was once an illiterate cowherd who did not know how to pray, so
instead he would say to God: "Master of the Universe, you know that if
you had cows and you gave them to me to look after I would do it for
nothing, even though I take wages from everyone else. I would do it for
you for nothing because I love you." A certain sage chanced upon the
cowherd and heard him praying in this manner. The sage said to him, "you
fool, you must not pray like that." The cowherd asked him how he should
pray, and the sage set about teaching him the order of prayers as they
are found in the prayerbook. After the sage went away the cowherd soon
forgot what he had been taught and so he did not pray at all. He was
afraid to say his usual prayer about God's cows because the sage had
told him that it was wrong to say such things, on the other hand he
could not say what the sage had told him because it was all jumbled up
in his mind. That night the sage was reprimanded in a dream and told
that unless the cowherd returned to his spontaneous prayer great harm
would befall the sage, for he had stolen something very precious away
from God." (Teachings of the Jewish Mystics) >>

Very nice, thanks for sharing.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>
 
>And I bet you go pick your running shoes off of your Asics bush growing
>in your yard when you are in need of a new pair, right?

No, I f**k bush, I go to the shoe store for shoes.
 
jogger wrote:
>
> Tom Phillips wrote:
>
> > Reporting silly studies left and right is a favorite
> > CNN ploy to lengthen viewer's attention spans. It's
> > intended to entertain. But I note it also reports "Some
> > scientists, however, say the concept is a myth."
>
> Well, the full quote is
> "The "runner's high" theory emerged in the United States during the
> running craze of
> the 1970s, when researchers discovered the brain's opiate receptors,
> which are
> proteins located on the surface of nerve cells. Some scientists,
> however, say the concept is a myth. "
>
> I don't think they are saying that they don't believe that higb levels
> of anandamide were found in the test subjects.

All I know is I lived the 60's. Running just doesn't
produce the same sort of "highs." :) If it did I probably
would have joined the track team in '68. But as it was
I never had a jock come up to me and say "why don't ya
try running instead, pot head?"

Actually, the common derisive term for us Heads was
"freak!" Running round the track with a pony tail
and a joint was sure way to get assaulted...


> > There was also the Epicurean "Eat, drink, for tomorrow we
> > die."
>
> If you truly believe (and I actually think you just enjoy b.s'ing about
> this stuff the way I also do) that we should base our attitude towards
> running on the Greek outlook of "Eat, drink, for tomorrow we die"
> because they started the sport of running, then it seems to me that you
> should be in favor of people listening to music while running if it
> increases their enjoyment (for tomorrow they may die).

I didn't say I was for or against it. I just said I
didn't and those headsets would drive me nuts. I'm
just pointing out not everyone runs for a zen-like
experience and I don't think running is rooted in
anything other than sport and/or natural human
social activity. In fact, modern running probably is
rooted (just speculating) in the ancient necessity for
communication on the battlefield.

> I mostly enjoy just rambling on about this stuff, have enjoyed this
> thread, but I'll almost always argue sincerely against someone telling
> others that they aren't doing things "right" (even if perhaps they have
> a valid point).

Again, I never said listening to music was right or wrong.
But I don't think many serious runners do it.

> -J
> "There was once an illiterate cowherd who did not know how to pray, so
> instead he would say to God: "Master of the Universe, you know that if
> you had cows and you gave them to me to look after I would do it for
> nothing, even though I take wages from everyone else. I would do it for
> you for nothing because I love you." A certain sage chanced upon the
> cowherd and heard him praying in this manner. The sage said to him, "you
> fool, you must not pray like that." The cowherd asked him how he should
> pray, and the sage set about teaching him the order of prayers as they
> are found in the prayerbook. After the sage went away the cowherd soon
> forgot what he had been taught and so he did not pray at all. He was
> afraid to say his usual prayer about God's cows because the sage had
> told him that it was wrong to say such things, on the other hand he
> could not say what the sage had told him because it was all jumbled up
> in his mind. That night the sage was reprimanded in a dream and told
> that unless the cowherd returned to his spontaneous prayer great harm
> would befall the sage, for he had stolen something very precious away
> from God." (Teachings of the Jewish Mystics)

From the history of Jewish running? ;)
 
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