Training Bible and Workout Durations for Beginner



frost

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Oct 25, 2007
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Originally Posted by dominikk85 .
any time trialist on the road uses a 100 cadence (or 95 to 105:)) because this is just the best cadence I think (I can't explain why but noone is riding 30 mph with an 85 cadence). so getting comfortable with those cadences early when they can not be used efficiently already might be a good idea even if you are not really being efficient.
Ever heard of Bert Grabsch?
 

danfoz

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Apr 12, 2011
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Originally Posted by frost .


Ever heard of Bert Grabsch?
Or Tony Martin? Or Jan Ulrich who slogged over at about 80rpm's? Not discounting high cadence - my last TT had me at 104avg, but it doesn't work for everybody.
 

dominikk85

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Oct 29, 2012
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Originally Posted by danfoz .


Or Tony Martin? Or Jan Ulrich who slogged over at about 80rpm's? Not discounting high cadence - my last TT had me at 104avg, but it doesn't work for everybody.
ullrichs low cadence was only in the mountains. in a flat TT he did 100 like anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPu6ZYAQBM (at 2:45 to 2:55 I counted 102-not sure if my count (17 in 10) is correct though)
 

frost

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Oct 25, 2007
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Originally Posted by dominikk85 .

ullrichs low cadence was only in the mountains. in a flat TT he did 100 like anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPu6ZYAQBM (at 2:45 to 2:55 I counted 102-not sure if my count (17 in 10) is correct though)
You missed the whole point. People with different physiology and training status have different optimal cadences at different power outputs. There's no good in getting used to any specific cadence unless the race demands to produce high power outputs with limited cadence options (eg. fixed gear or examples above where even gears are available it is faster to react by adjusting the cadence than switching gear). And the high power output is in central role here so that just spinning 120rpm doesn't make you a pursuiter, but being a good pursuiter requires you to be able to produce high power at high cadences thus you better do workouts where you have to produce high power outputs at high cadences.
 

dominikk85

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Oct 29, 2012
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Originally Posted by frost .


You missed the whole point. People with different physiology and training status have different optimal cadences at different power outputs. There's no good in getting used to any specific cadence unless the race demands to produce high power outputs with limited cadence options (eg. fixed gear or examples above where even gears are available it is faster to react by adjusting the cadence than switching gear). And the high power output is in central role here so that just spinning 120rpm doesn't make you a pursuiter, but being a good pursuiter requires you to be able to produce high power at high cadences thus you better do workouts where you have to produce high power outputs at high cadences.
yes, pedaling higher cadence will not increase your speed at all if you don't increase power. however there is also a coordination component to high cadences. being able to spin 120 for more than a minute without bouncing in the saddle requires a certain motoric ability that not every novice rider possesses. developing that skill is not a stupid idea even if you are not yet able to use that effectively. that alone won't make you a great rider of course.
 

vspa

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Jan 11, 2009
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frost said:
You obviously haven't got that power meter yet ;)
im paying attention to watts in the gym, on the treadmill, for the time being, i might get the SRM in the future but whats most appealing to me is to have all information in one device and/or one screen (speed, cadence, distance, altitude, HR and power of course), about the power literature by these guys, lots of the terminology they come up with is trademarked (tm), thats not the way to write a book, will see,
 

frost

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Oct 25, 2007
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Originally Posted by dominikk85 .

yes, pedaling higher cadence will not increase your speed at all if you don't increase power. however there is also a coordination component to high cadences. being able to spin 120 for more than a minute without bouncing in the saddle requires a certain motoric ability that not every novice rider possesses. developing that skill is not a stupid idea even if you are not yet able to use that effectively. that alone won't make you a great rider of course.
What changes after a minute? I mean obviously there is a coordination component but hard to see how that would be affected by the time that you are pedalling at certain cadence. If you start to rock after a certain time I would put it more to fatigue than coordination. To improve your coordination you better put it a to a hard place to push for adaptations eg. by doing very short max cadence drills (just accelerate to your max cadence and hold it for a few seconds) rather than light spinning minutes at 120 rpm. Or combine power by riding 90-100% of your time specific max power with 120rpm.
 

frost

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Oct 25, 2007
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Originally Posted by vspa .


im paying attention to watts in the gym, on the treadmill, for the time being,
i might get the SRM in the future but whats most appealing to me is to have all information in one device and/or one screen (speed, cadence, distance, altitude, HR and power of course),
about the power literature by these guys, lots of the terminology they come up with is trademarked (tm), thats not the way to write a book,
will see,
I don't know if you are familiar but in addition to SRM there are other options for crank based power meter today (check out Quark, Power2max and Rotor is also coming to a marked in coming spring, though based on history of PM marked, early adaptation of new comers is maybe not very vice). By no means saying that SRM is not good it is just a bit pricey (unless you find a good deal of wired version from ebay).

All of them use ANT+ communication so you have a choice head units that are able to display all of that.
 

robertjuric

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Nov 25, 2012
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Originally Posted by frost .


What changes after a minute? I mean obviously there is a coordination component but hard to see how that would be affected by the time that you are pedalling at certain cadence. If you start to rock after a certain time I would put it more to fatigue than coordination. To improve your coordination you better put it a to a hard place to push for adaptations eg. by doing very short max cadence drills (just accelerate to your max cadence and hold it for a few seconds) rather than light spinning minutes at 120 rpm. Or combine power by riding 90-100% of your time specific max power with 120rpm.
I think the coordination adaptations are what the goal of the cadence work. At least that's been my goal when I've been doing the drills.
 

bgoetz

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Nov 25, 2010
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While I think it is good you have a plan, I don't think you should get to hung up on following Freil's plan, especially given that you have no real racing/training experience. IMO the best thing you could do is develop a 10hr per week plan with a steady diet of SST/L4 work. Do that until race season and then race as much as you possibally can. I think this would serve you better than 15hrs a week of following the bible.
 

robertjuric

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Nov 25, 2012
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How often a week do most people work 2x20s or SST training into their schedule?

I tried my first 2x20 workout today, but without power and on the open road it felt difficult to gauge if I was working it right. I tried to push hard enough that I had to concentrate on going harder, but not so much that my legs began to burn. Because of the hills you wouldn't know I was doing a 2x20 workout by looking at my graphs.
 

daveryanwyoming

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Oct 3, 2006
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Originally Posted by robertjuric .

How often a week do most people work 2x20s or SST training into their schedule?...
it depends, but for someone just starting into SST/L4 style training I'd start with one day a week of pure 2x20 style Threshold work and a couple of days that include less structured Tempo/SST work. After a few weeks of that you should have a good idea if a second day of structured L4 work makes sense given your riding plan and your recovery.

That is for someone riding at least some of their days outdoors and mixing L4 work with steady mid range to longer outdoor riding. If you're on minimal hours and especially if those are all indoor hours then two or even three days per week of structured L4 work supplemented by some easier Tempo work to fill out your week is pretty typical during off season building.


... but without power and on the open road it felt difficult to gauge if I was working it right. I tried to push hard enough that I had to concentrate on going harder, but not so much that my legs began to burn. ...
Concentrate on your breathing. If you could hold a conversation or don't even notice your breathing then pick it up a bit. If you couldn't even talk to someone with more than a word or two or are gasping and can't control your breathing at all then back it down a notch. If you're breathing deeply and steadily and have to stay focused to maintain the workout level but could take a swig out of your water bottle or perhaps say a few words to someone but need to take a deep breath before or after such an effort then you've got it about right for solid L4 work. If it's Tempo/SST then back it down a half notch so that you still notice the steady breathing but it doesn't require so much focus to maintain the effort and is closer to your own best 'fast but fun pace'.

-Dave