Training for sprinting.

[DancenMacabre]

Oh dear, I think of got the technique but like you I'd struggle to break 30mph. Oh well back to those threshold intervals

ha ha, at least you are winning & if so, then does it matter if it is solo or in a sprint?

<snip>

..

Practice in various gears and various terrain as suggested above. Try to find a downhill where you can easily get up to high speeds followed by a flat or a gentle uphill and hit some sprints as hard as you can from speed. It also helps to sprint to fixed targets like a certain lamp post or city limit sign instead of setting time goals. You shouldn't even be able to look at your cycling computer in a full out sprint so focus on a mock finish line instead and try to accelerate all the way to the line.

Good luck,
-Dave

nodding in agreement with Dave's comments. superb advice.........as usual.

the energy system (stored atp/CP) that fuels your all-out sprint will be depleted, depending on who you ask in about 4-8 seconds. rather than spending your atp/cp bickies getting up to the optimal cadence (which as Dave said is higher than most think), the downhill approach lets you start at optimal gear-cadence combo from the first instant - meaning you'll truly be hitting your max. that's what i do as opposed to trying to hit my max from a standing start...

this article might be useful too: http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/mah_powerband.htm

Thanks for the input guys. Really a lot of thoughts! But then again thanks.

@Dancen: Since it looks like you are the resident expert, I am going to print your post, and follow it like the bible. How long have you been riding Dancen? Are you pro?

Ha ha, say stuff like that and you might have the real resident experts hurting themselves from laughing so hard!

I'm more like the resident jester/comic relief/hipster/girl geek.

my riding career consists of years of dodging cars in san francisco during super short but infrequent bike commutes (who knows, maybe i was doing HIT that whole time....) & 8 months of now serious training leading up to races in the next 6-8 weeks. i am over the moon about my progress in that time & have learned tonnes from some of these fellows that are the true experts like Dave, Frenchyge, Fergie, Coach Alex Simmons, Tony, and other frequent posters. You would do well to listen to every crumb & kernel of wisdom they share.

i am working/studying for my first coaching badge but that's about the only semblance of qualification i might have (if you could even call it that).

 

[kausbose]

Alright that's it! This is input has whetted my appetite for sprinting. JUST IF THIS RAIN WOULD STOP!!! AARGH!!!

Thank you all for your wonderful inputs. I am sure I have a TON of pointers to improve now.

 

[frenchyge]

Alas the "racers" that I have around me are pretty much busy bragging about their sprints. They are not "explaining much". I got to find someone else, hence the post here.

But it looks like you are right, I am "might" be gearing too high. I will attempt to drop the gears a bit and hit a cadence of 120. I shift gears at about 105. Maybe that's what I am doing wrong.

To answer your questions in the post. I am on the drops. But when I get tired I have a tendency to get up on the the hoods and go into a "steady-state".

As for buddying up for sprints. The guys I bike with RELY on their sprints to win. I can take them on the climbs but lose on the sprints. So they don't want to divulge their secrets because that's what keeping me from winning. But really this was insightful!

Heh... yeah, they're not going to teach a climber how to sprint.

Well I'm not an expert sprinter by any means, but my impression of wannabe sprinters is that they throw themselves forward and thrash around violently without really going anywhere. I was taught to stay in the drops with elbows bent as this keeps the head lower and forces the hips/weight back over the saddle. That felt strange to me at first but is much more effective and controlled. It also lets you engage the arms better, as I mentioned last post. Use the arms in alternation with the legs to help keep the bike stable -- it's okay to let it rock naturally but you want to keep the tires rolling forward rather than scrubbing side to side like many do. When you get tired, stay in the drops with your head low, sit down, and spin it out to the line.

Also, while it's possible to shift during the sprint, that's not really preferred IMO. If you throw the chain or jam something at that speed and cadence you will immediately end up on your head with your bike about 10 feet in the air. IMO, it's better to select the right gear before making your jump and just spin it out to the line without shifting. When you're riding at ~90 rpm leading up to the sprint then that might mean you're already in the right gear depending on the speed of the leadout, or you might need to shift up one cog, but the point is to feel your gears a little before jumping and be concious of not bogging down your jump with too big a gear. Keep in mind that while you're excited about the sprint, you're also tired and your legs might not be as snappy when you jump as you'd hoped (pick a conservatively easy gear).

There's other stuff to practice, like accurately knowing what you're about 200m from a line in the road, etc. But just improving your form should help your top speed without requiring more power.

Another neuromuscular exercises that I didn't see mentioned above is 'jumps' which I do in the small ring from a very slow speed. Pick a moderate gear and hit it hard, spinning up to max rpm in ~10 seconds then shut it down. Roll back to the line and repeat. Since they're shorter you don't need as much rest, so do 5-6 then take a break. I'll do a few of these in the parking lot while waiting for people to show up for a ride.

In your case, don't let them know you're practicing until you're ready to smoke 'em.

Edit: Uggh.... lots of good comments while I had to leave my computer mid-post. You've got plenty to digest now. Let us know how it goes.

 

[vspa]

But it looks like you are right, I am "might" be gearing too high. I will attempt to drop the gears a bit and hit a cadence of 120. I shift gears at about 105. Maybe that's what I am doing wrong.

you don't have to shift years in (during) a sprint, you start lets say on your 12th cog from the beginning of the sprint ( if you feel like it, later on you could try the 11th cog )

this works either for a full gas going peloton or in a tactical 4 or 5 man sprint

 

[kausbose]

Heh... yeah, they're not going to teach a climber how to sprint.

Well I'm not an expert sprinter by any means, but my impression of wannabe sprinters is that they throw themselves forward and thrash around violently without really going anywhere. I was taught to stay in the drops with elbows bent as this keeps the head lower and forces the hips/weight back over the saddle. That felt strange to me at first but is much more effective and controlled. It also lets you engage the arms better, as I mentioned last post. Use the arms in alternation with the legs to help keep the bike stable -- it's okay to let it rock naturally but you want to keep the tires rolling forward rather than scrubbing side to side like many do. When you get tired, stay in the drops with your head low, sit down, and spin it out to the line.

Also, while it's possible to shift during the sprint, that's not really preferred IMO. If you throw the chain or jam something at that speed and cadence you will immediately end up on your head with your bike about 10 feet in the air. IMO, it's better to select the right gear before making your jump and just spin it out to the line without shifting. When you're riding at ~90 rpm leading up to the sprint then that might mean you're already in the right gear depending on the speed of the leadout, or you might need to shift up one cog, but the point is to feel your gears a little before jumping and be concious of not bogging down your jump with too big a gear. Keep in mind that while you're excited about the sprint, you're also tired and your legs might not be as snappy when you jump as you'd hoped (pick a conservatively easy gear).

There's other stuff to practice, like accurately knowing what you're about 200m from a line in the road, etc. But just improving your form should help your top speed without requiring more power.

Another neuromuscular exercises that I didn't see mentioned above is 'jumps' which I do in the small ring from a very slow speed. Pick a moderate gear and hit it hard, spinning up to max rpm in ~10 seconds then shut it down. Roll back to the line and repeat. Since they're shorter you don't need as much rest, so do 5-6 then take a break. I'll do a few of these in the parking lot while waiting for people to show up for a ride.

In your case, don't let them know you're practicing until you're ready to smoke 'em.

Edit: Uggh.... lots of good comments while I had to leave my computer mid-post. You've got plenty to digest now. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks a LOT frenchyge

I am as happy as a dog with a new bone. I am gonna gnaw at this information till I am able to improve. I guess the only thing now is I am scared to shift gears with the load on the pedals now. The picture of me making out with the pavement and the bike flying high above me didn't really paint a good picture. I crashed once at 35 mph going downhill. That's something I have never got over. I am still scared going downhill.

 

[frenchyge]

I guess the only thing now is I am scared to shift gears with the load on the pedals now. The picture of me making out with the pavement and the bike flying high above me didn't really paint a good picture.

A derailleur shifts more smoothly when it's not under heavy load, but most of the time it'll still handle it. Problem is that a broken/dropped chain while sprinting hard out of the saddle (even a pedal unclipping at a bad time) can lead to a pretty spectacularly awful faceplant -- it happens. Not trying to scare you, I'm just not going to recommend it. I'm sure some folks shift without issue during sprints, but it's just not my preference to do so unless I've really botched the gear choice. If it's that bad then I'll pause briefly to shift and then try to salvage whatever's left of my finish.

Some good (and bad) sprinting pics here.

 

[kausbose]

A derailleur shifts more smoothly when it's not under heavy load, but most of the time it'll still handle it. Problem is that a broken/dropped chain while sprinting hard out of the saddle (even a pedal unclipping at a bad time) can lead to a pretty spectacularly awful faceplant -- it happens. Not trying to scare you, I'm just not going to recommend it. I'm sure some folks shift without issue during sprints, but it's just not my preference to do so unless I've really botched the gear choice. If it's that bad then I'll pause briefly to shift and then try to salvage whatever's left of my finish.

Some good (and bad) sprinting pics here.

Oh the new Di2's are the best. I have just biked on a bike with Di2's on it once. They are the bomb! No issues under load. I don't am not a Shimano guy! I ride SRAM, but I liked the Shimano DI2's just too much. Not that I can afford it in the near future.

 

[vspa]

i would say shifting gears isn't adviceable not just for security, your legs respond better that way. You need to carefully assess all factors, distance to the line, inclination of the road, your opponents position and personal characteristics, how fresh you feel...etc... THEN you choose what feels to be the correct gear and THEN you go !

if you need more proof check out your cycling videos closely
the same works after guys crash or come to a stop, they start re-pedaling with a big gear from the start

 

[kausbose]

So as I gather it's a BIG NO-NO to shift gears. Just find a good gear and just crank the hell out of it. Well what I did wrong was probably I started from a stationary position for my sprints. I guess that's absolutely wrong. I will now gradually pick up pace to my "steady state speed" and then go for the line. I get it, I get it. My bad. Won't crank on the gear again. But it's just so much fun though. It's like revving a motorcycle but here the engine's your own leg.

 

[frenchyge]

Grunting out standing starts can be fun, but they're not terribly specific training for roadie sprints. If you want to beat your buddies it's about leg speed, not grunting and groaning in big gears.

 

[Piotr]

I make a distinction between sprinting and going as hard as you can. This may be just semantics, but sprinting should be neuromuscular in nature. You can go as hard as you can for any length of time, but IMO you only sprint when you accellerate (under most conditions, certainly not sprinting up a steep hill or against gale force winds).

As a rule of thumb if you can't accellerate anymore, your sprint is done. This is why the power profiling chart uses 5 second power not 10, 15, or 30. Now, that is not to say that going all out for 30+ seconds doesn't have its benefits. It does, because it trains anaerobic power, but I wouldn't call it a neuromuscular workout or a sprint.

 

[Alex Simmons]

Grunting out standing starts can be fun, but they're not terribly specific training for roadie sprints. If you want to beat your buddies it's about leg speed, not grunting and groaning in big gears.

Do them in a smallish gear ~70-80".
These are excellent for developing neuromuscular power and getting legs used to rapidly accelerating cranks.

I personally hate doing start work on road bike. Much prefer on track bike.

So many facets to sprinting.

 

[frenchyge]

Do them in a smallish gear ~70-80".
These are excellent for developing neuromuscular power and getting legs used to rapidly accelerating cranks.

Yeah, that's about what I referred to as jumps in post #23. Those are about the only NM work that I do regularly. Good for checking 5s power, too.

 

[Ade Merckx]

ha ha, at least you are winning & if so, then does it matter if it is solo or in a sprint?

It all depends whether you want other folks gurning in your winning photo shot or not

 

[Ade Merckx]

Here we go the beauty of winning solo! Starring Alex.
Here's the gap for my crit win last weekend:

 

[PhilBixby]

Last season I decided to do something about my dismal sprinting (and knowing it was dismal wreaked havoc on my confidence at the tail-end of races). I saw an interesting-looking regime in the LVRC (British veteran's - I'm over 50) magazine which I followed. No miracles, but it dragged my 880W peak up to more than 1000W and I'm hoping this year for a similar increase. Perhaps equally importantly it gave me more confidence to challenge at the end of races.

Goes like this:- Do two, hour-long, sessions a week for eight weeks. First week do 15sec sprint / 15sec recovery, second week do 15sec sprint / 30sec recovery, and so on - 15/45, 15sec/1min15sec, 15sec/1min45sec, etc up to 15sec sprint 4mins45sec recovery. Obviously on the early ones (which work fine on a turbo) you're putting out relatively low power each time, in a low-ish gear, but you're developing leg speed. As you work up to more power, in bigger gears, with longer recovery, you're still able to keep the leg speed (about 150rpm in my case). All of which means you can stay in one gear and still whack out lots of power as you spin it out.

 

[vspa]

Gianni Bugno sprinting ahead of Johann Museeuw, in the 1994 Tour de Flanders, is a genuine master class

 

[patience]

Hi all
It is initially more important to improve balance ,posture and stability of the trunk than it is to improve leg or arm strength.Training at slower speeds to improve performance in these events is mostly of a little positive effect. Maximum speed is the most important quality to develop on a regular basis. This should be done with maximum speed experiences over short distances.