Training plans for Winter?

[Eden]

Hi Eden,
Long time since we corresponded. I finally picked up a trainer. 1 up USA. I was about to get a Kurt Kinetic when someone on the forum recommended it to me. I checked it out and decided it would be my best option as all bikes will fit on it, it's not too bad changing from bike to bike and I can't afford a new trainer every couple years so I spent a little extra and got this one. It has a lifetime guarantee and they provided me with 2 additional cups so my 10 yr old boys can go on also. My girls also use it but so far they have been using it with my bike on it even though they don't have cleats. If they begin to show real interest I'll bring their bikes in and put them on. Myself, I've been riding every night between 1/2 and an hr. Somehow there arent enough hours in a day to get good rides in during winter. I play music and close my eyes to envision a nice trail I might like to ride to break up the boredom. Somehow though I just don't feel like I get as good a workout as I used to during summer. I switch the gears around to make it tougher then easier as I would on the road and never allow my cadance to fall below 85 but it's still not the same. One thing I find is I drink lots of additional water and perspire way more than I do outdoors on a hot/humid day in summer even though my basement is freezing and I'm wearing shorts. The trainer doesn't provide hills and, of course dodging cars, etc. I'm not a maniac on the road or anything it's just full of surprises, thats all. I need to get back to Pilates which I really dislike but they do tighten up my body more than simply cycling alone. Any tips you can provide for training will be greatly appreciated.
It must be really nice having a hubbie as into cycling as yourself! Somehow People don't really seem to get it unless they themselves cycle. My really good friends support me no matter what. Still, as much as they appear excited for me I don't get the impression they understand. Has this also been your experience? I've learned to just keep it to myself and ride.
Nice for you you were able to find a team to cycle with during winter. I don't want to risk another asthma attack but would definetly enjoy meeting with a group once a week simply to shoot the breeze and pick up some training tips, etc. I have been as yet unable to locate any in my area. I'll check into your team and see if they have a branch on Long Island. Take care Eden! Talk to you soon! ~Deirdre

Hey! I was beginning to wonder what happened to you!
Yeah, trainer riding just isn't like riding on the road no matter how entertaining you try to make it. if you can put a fan yourself while you ride you'll feel better and you won't drip so much. It feels a bit chilly at first, but it really helps a lot. If you really feel you aren't getting a good work out you could try doing some intervals. There is a lot of debate around how to train at this time of the year - long steady relatively slow riding is the recommendation of most right now, but really in the end its a personal thing and some people just aren't motivated enough by long slow rides. It also depends on what you want to do next year. People racing have to worry about being too strong, too soon and burning out before the end of the season, but if you are riding for fitness that's not so much a concern.
Intervals work best if you have a heart rate monitor, but the basic premise is that you pick an amount of time and number of intervals that you want to do. (The DVD that I have has you do 3, 5 minute intervals with 5 min of rest in between each interval, but I know people have lots of combinations) For 5 minutes you ride as hard as you can and still maintain a fairly small heart rate range- for me I can hold onto 189-192 for 5min, but it has everything to do with your personal max heart rate, so those aren't numbers to shoot for! I'm sure you could do this without a heart rate monitor, you just wouldn't be able to be as methodical about it. Another web site I was just looking at said you can use "Perceived Exertion"- You should maintain a feeling of strength through the six intervals. They should get harder, but you should feel able to complete each one strongly.
Doing this will really kick your butt and make you stronger! It took me about 4 times with the DVD to actually make it through all 3 intervals (if you can't maintain your target heart rate the DVD says to stop and cool down).
I'd love to tell you we have branches of the team, but we're strictly local. The great thing is that women's racing is really gaining popularity out here. I am one of over 40 new members on the team this year with a total roster of over 90! Racing starts in March so I hope I'm ready!
Good to hear from you again!
Eden

 

[ptlwp]

We have had a ridiculous amount of warm weather here; 70 degrees in New Jersey at this time of year is unprecedented.....

What global warming?

What greenhouse effect?

What ozone layer?


Duh, for a president? Yes.

 

[wackydeirdre]

Hey! I was beginning to wonder what happened to you!
Yeah, trainer riding just isn't like riding on the road no matter how entertaining you try to make it. if you can put a fan yourself while you ride you'll feel better and you won't drip so much. It feels a bit chilly at first, but it really helps a lot. If you really feel you aren't getting a good work out you could try doing some intervals. There is a lot of debate around how to train at this time of the year - long steady relatively slow riding is the recommendation of most right now, but really in the end its a personal thing and some people just aren't motivated enough by long slow rides. It also depends on what you want to do next year. People racing have to worry about being too strong, too soon and burning out before the end of the season, but if you are riding for fitness that's not so much a concern.
Intervals work best if you have a heart rate monitor, but the basic premise is that you pick an amount of time and number of intervals that you want to do. (The DVD that I have has you do 3, 5 minute intervals with 5 min of rest in between each interval, but I know people have lots of combinations) For 5 minutes you ride as hard as you can and still maintain a fairly small heart rate range- for me I can hold onto 189-192 for 5min, but it has everything to do with your personal max heart rate, so those aren't numbers to shoot for! I'm sure you could do this without a heart rate monitor, you just wouldn't be able to be as methodical about it. Another web site I was just looking at said you can use "Perceived Exertion"- You should maintain a feeling of strength through the six intervals. They should get harder, but you should feel able to complete each one strongly.
Doing this will really kick your butt and make you stronger! It took me about 4 times with the DVD to actually make it through all 3 intervals (if you can't maintain your target heart rate the DVD says to stop and cool down).
I'd love to tell you we have branches of the team, but we're strictly local. The great thing is that women's racing is really gaining popularity out here. I am one of over 40 new members on the team this year with a total roster of over 90! Racing starts in March so I hope I'm ready!
Good to hear from you again!
Eden

Hey Eden!
Thanks for your quick reply! It was really nice to hear from you again also!
Thanks for the advice about the fan, along with keeping perspiration to a minimum the breeze may hopefully make me feel at least a little more like I'm on the road. I have been riding in short intervals and have been trying to keep the breaks shorter, more like gliding. When I ride for longer intervals then actually come to a full stop to rest the fun goes from it completely and I don't want riding to ever be a chore. I'd end up giving up and getting fat again and don't even want to think in that direction. I'd like to get into racing myself but after my recouperating form two injuries which, ironically were non cycling related I lost about 1 1/2 month on the bike and am getting back into shape all over again. I just don't feel or look as good as I did during summer when I actually could see clear cut muscle definition. It's coming along but too slowly for me.
Sorry I havent been on the forum in such a while, I've been trying to get into a little bit of business (I won't say what, I'm the kind that doesnt say they have a fish on their line until it's on the beach or boat. I just say I'm going fishing.) Anyhow, I've been fairly busy plotting things with my business partner. Also, the winter doesn't even seem to provide enough time for a decent ride with helping the kids with homework, getting dinner ready early and all else I have to do, the days go by so quickly. I can't believe Christmas is just around the corner! How depressing. Sorry, I've never been a big fan of the jolly old man, he puts a serious dent in my purse and this year I'm really broke! Well, HO HO! and happy shopping Eden! Best wishes to your hubbie! Talk to you soon! ~ Deirdre

 

[Eden]

Hey Eden!
Thanks for your quick reply! It was really nice to hear from you again also!
Thanks for the advice about the fan, along with keeping perspiration to a minimum the breeze may hopefully make me feel at least a little more like I'm on the road. I have been riding in short intervals and have been trying to keep the breaks shorter, more like gliding. When I ride for longer intervals then actually come to a full stop to rest the fun goes from it completely and I don't want riding to ever be a chore. I'd end up giving up and getting fat again and don't even want to think in that direction. I'd like to get into racing myself but after my recouperating form two injuries which, ironically were non cycling related I lost about 1 1/2 month on the bike and am getting back into shape all over again. I just don't feel or look as good as I did during summer when I actually could see clear cut muscle definition. It's coming along but too slowly for me.
Sorry I havent been on the forum in such a while, I've been trying to get into a little bit of business (I won't say what, I'm the kind that doesnt say they have a fish on their line until it's on the beach or boat. I just say I'm going fishing.) Anyhow, I've been fairly busy plotting things with my business partner. Also, the winter doesn't even seem to provide enough time for a decent ride with helping the kids with homework, getting dinner ready early and all else I have to do, the days go by so quickly. I can't believe Christmas is just around the corner! How depressing. Sorry, I've never been a big fan of the jolly old man, he puts a serious dent in my purse and this year I'm really broke! Well, HO HO! and happy shopping Eden! Best wishes to your hubbie! Talk to you soon! ~ Deirdre

I know what you mean about Christmas. I don't have any kids and I'm not religious so it really just seems like going through the motions these days. And stores push it so much and so soon (October! at some stores) that I'm just tired of it after too long.
When you do your intervals don't stop in the "rest" period between intervals-it really could be called a "slow down" period. Keep pedaling, but pedal easy, shift down and spin to keep your muscles moving, keep the lactic acid clearing out, but let your heart rate come down. I can see how stopping and starting could be discouraging. If I stopped cold after an interval my legs would feel like lead trying to start up again.

 

[wackydeirdre]

I know what you mean about Christmas. I don't have any kids and I'm not religious so it really just seems like going through the motions these days. And stores push it so much and so soon (October! at some stores) that I'm just tired of it after too long.
When you do your intervals don't stop in the "rest" period between intervals-it really could be called a "slow down" period. Keep pedaling, but pedal easy, shift down and spin to keep your muscles moving, keep the lactic acid clearing out, but let your heart rate come down. I can see how stopping and starting could be discouraging. If I stopped cold after an interval my legs would feel like lead trying to start up again.

WOW!, was that fast! I sort of do just slow down and keep pedaling (even if I pedal backward which i sometimes so in the middle of a ride and always for a minute or so before I get off the bike) Regarding heart rate, when I used to go for my well visits before I lost weight my EKG's were always perfect. Now that I'm riding, my EKG came out reading abnormal I was furious actually! You should have heard me rant. When I was fat and didnt exercise, my EKG's were normal but now that I'm busting my tail and am thin It has glitches in it? So, I get sent to the cardiologist who keeps asking me, "so,why are you here?" as I describe my lifestyle. As I was sent there to begin with he had me undergo a series of tests. Stress test, Echocardiagram holter for 24 hrs, etc. It was decided in the end that I had a normal heart and the glitches are not an uncommon thing for people who are very athletic. Have you ever heard of this before?

 

[awest1982]

I like the fact that some other girls are competitive out there. The best advice I have for getting faster for racing is weight training for your legs, upper body and core and cadence work. Building up your leg muscle will give you more power for your hills and accelarations, while upper body and core will keep you from getting worn out on long rides/races.

During the "off season" you shouldnt focus as much on intervals and speedwork, but more on increasing your spinning cadence and building leg muscle through weight training. Of course, racking up miles/minutes in the saddle will keep you fit aerobically, but you probably dont need to ride as much as you plan to get race ready. You should focus more on speedwork and intervals in your build phase/pre race season, since you'll have the strength and cadence to back up heavy training to build speed.
Good luck!

I'm with Mellic here. This forum is getting a bit dull, we need to get some good bike related discussions going. So how's about this for a starter. I've been cycling a long time, but I'm just getting into racing. I've been riding a lot, but I think I've gotten about as far as I can by just going out and riding without a real plan, so I need to start thinking about a training plan for winter. So far I've aquired a nice used trainer (its a fluid trainer - the hubby got a magnetic one last year that I've used also and so far I don't see a big difference) and I plan to do the Power Interval DVD that I have at least twice a week when it starts getting too dark to go outside after work, but I don't yet have a lot of real ideas about what else to do. I'll probably put in between 45 min and 1.5 hrs inside on 4 weekdays and get outside to put in base miles on weekends - it stays warm enough here pretty much all year if a bit wet at times (I'll go cross country skiing on the weekends sometimes too if we get any snow this year!).

I will also be going out on Saturdays to the local "meet the team" rides, so I may be able to get some pointers there too, especially if I decide to join one.

How about everyone else? - What do you all do for the winter to stay in shape/improve for next year? For the southern hemisphere gals how did your winter training go? any pointers for us just starting the season.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I like the fact that some other girls are competitive out there. The best advice I have for getting faster for racing is weight training for your legs, upper body and core and cadence work. Building up your leg muscle will give you more power for your hills and accelarations, while upper body and core will keep you from getting worn out on long rides/races.

to clarify in trained cyclists there is no evidence that weight training increases endurance cycling performance. there's quite a lot of threads on this in the training section of this forum, including one "sticky" thread. There is evidence that weight training would be detrimental to cycling performance.

There is also no evidence that core work prevents fatigue (in cycling) or that it would be useful (for cycling performance).

There is evidence that weights help increase *sprint* performance (but this would occur at the detriment of endurance performance).

There is evidence that in low fitness subjects that weights would increase endurance cycling performance (but so would any exercise).

ric

 

[Eden]

to clarify in trained cyclists there is no evidence that weight training increases endurance cycling performance. there's quite a lot of threads on this in the training section of this forum, including one "sticky" thread. There is evidence that weight training would be detrimental to cycling performance.

There is also no evidence that core work prevents fatigue (in cycling) or that it would be useful (for cycling performance).

There is evidence that weights help increase *sprint* performance (but this would occur at the detriment of endurance performance).

There is evidence that in low fitness subjects that weights would increase endurance cycling performance (but so would any exercise).

ric

Is there any reason to believe the effects of isolated leg and/or large gear exercises are any better than weight training? I would assume that they target the muscles you use for cycling better, but otherwise?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Is there any reason to believe the effects of isolated leg and/or large gear exercises are any better than weight training? I would assume that they target the muscles you use for cycling better, but otherwise?

They're likely going to be better than weight training for increasing cycling performance, however, i wouldn't recommend that you do either single leg drills or low cadence work (i'm guessing that's what you mean by large gear exercises) either, as neither of these are particularly effective at increasing power output/fitness.

What you should be looking to do is increase the power you can sustain at e.g., 1-hr TT effort, MAP (VO2max) and peak (sprint) power using a variety of training techniques (e.g., various intervals and continuous efforts) depending on your goals.

There are *some* reasons to do the above mentioned training sessions, but often these are just to relieve boredom when training indoors.

Ric

 

[tjodit]

They're likely going to be better than weight training for increasing cycling performance, however, i wouldn't recommend that you do either single leg drills or low cadence work (i'm guessing that's what you mean by large gear exercises) either, as neither of these are particularly effective at increasing power output/fitness. Ric

Wow, I'm surprised to see this. I am fairly new to cycling and am not "debating" you but that seems to go against everything I've read in Bicycling Magazine and online.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Wow, I'm surprised to see this. I am fairly new to cycling and am not "debating" you but that seems to go against everything I've read in Bicycling Magazine and online.

which bit are you "debating" (for want of a better word) about: the weights, or the single leg drills/low cadence stuff?

Btw, i mention this a lot online (e.g., this forum, cyclingnews.com) and talk about "reverse periodisation" in this months Bicycling Magazine.

Ric

 

[awest1982]

to clarify in trained cyclists there is no evidence that weight training increases endurance cycling performance. there's quite a lot of threads on this in the training section of this forum, including one "sticky" thread. There is evidence that weight training would be detrimental to cycling performance.


There is also no evidence that core work prevents fatigue (in cycling) or that it would be useful (for cycling performance).

There is evidence that weights help increase *sprint* performance (but this would occur at the detriment of endurance performance).

There is evidence that in low fitness subjects that weights would increase endurance cycling performance (but so would any exercise).

ric

Ric:

Here is was EDEN was asking in her starting post:
"How about everyone else? - What do you all do for the winter to stay in shape/improve for next year?"

When I say weight training and cadence work, etc... that is what I do in the off-season/winter (I live in Wisconsin, no chance to get outdoors on the bike, btw) to stay in shape and improve. I have had good results with this, and the weight training has definitely improved my speed and endurance,and I wouldnt call myself a "low fitness subject", either. I agree that weight training during a set training phase would be detrimental, most likely since I never tried (cant force myself into a gym once the weather is nice), but I thought we were talking about training during the winter/off season. I find it hard to train consecutively all-year long for just "harder, faster, more" cycling, as that (for me) tends to be counter-productive to improving.

My belief is that a well deserved rest for a few months to work on other things will improve anyone's performance.

Then again, Ric, I didnt see a post from you regarding what you suggest for Eden, just posts discrediting (sometimes rightly so) what others say. Im not saying youre wrong here in your evaluation of my winter training, you probably have more experience than I do, but I want to know what you suggest.

Alex

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Ric:

Here is was EDEN was asking in her starting post:
"How about everyone else? - What do you all do for the winter to stay in shape/improve for next year?"

When I say weight training and cadence work, etc... that is what I do in the off-season/winter (I live in Wisconsin, no chance to get outdoors on the bike, btw) to stay in shape and improve.

That's fine (if that's what you do). However, i was just replying to your blanket statement: "...The best advice I have for getting faster for racing is weight training for your legs, upper body and core and cadence work...." (etc).

If the weather is inclement then *any* training is better than no training, however, it would surely be more appropriate to train on an indoor (bike) trainer. (yes, i know they're boring, but i use one all winter).

but I thought we were talking about training during the winter/off season. I find it hard to train consecutively all-year long for just "harder, faster, more" cycling, as that (for me) tends to be counter-productive to improving.

as far as i'm aware we are talking about the off-season/winter. i have no idea why riding your bike year round would be counter productive (i've been doing it for the last 22 years). That sounds like you just need to alter your training regimen, if you are getting bored?

My belief is that a well deserved rest for a few months to work on other things will improve anyone's performance.

other than if you are bored senseless by riding or burnt out (i.e., psychological staleness) a "well deserved rest" would not improve performance. There is no evidence (other than e.g., your own anecdotal evidence) to support that a rest (even if you ended up cross training) of several months would improve performance (in your primary exercise modality).

The adaptations that occur in training are specific to the joint angles and velocities at which they occur, so it's important to be specific in your training to gain an increase in fitness (as e.g., an increase in performance in another exercise modality may not lead to an increase in performance in your primary exercise modality).

Then again, Ric, I didnt see a post from you regarding what you suggest for Eden

I can't recall what i wrote earlier in the thread. however, there's lots of advice on training from myself (and of course others) in the training/power/nutrition forums.

, just posts discrediting (sometimes rightly so) what others say. Im not saying youre wrong here in your evaluation of my winter training, you probably have more experience than I do

i would guess that i have more experience (although i have no idea on your qualifications) considering that i coach pro cyclists (male and female), amateurs, masters, recreational riders etc. and am a sports scientist. i'm also a physiological consultant for Polar and other bike companies.

, but I want to know what you suggest.

Alex

in short i offered (see the first page) to give some specific advice on what to do over the winter, but no one seemed interested. Thus, if Eden wants my advice she (as is anyone else) is welcome to ask for it, and i'll answer.

If you want a general answer for what to do over the winter, this was also answered on the first page, along the lines of keep riding the bike and don't slack off. That advice still stands.

I'm unlikely to develop a complete training plan, unless formal coaching was asked for.

Ric

 

[Equus123]

Ric,

In your posts above about weight lifting not improving cycling performance, I'm curious - What was the lifting workouts like for the subjects of that research? I have a background in lifting and I just can't accept that its not beneficial to a sport. Strength training is what you make of it and it can be taylored to fit your exact needs. I don't undertand how it can't be done to help you be a better cyclist as a whole.

What are your thoughts?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Ric,

In your posts above about weight lifting not improving cycling performance, I'm curious - What was the lifting workouts like for the subjects of that research? I have a background in lifting and I just can't accept that its not beneficial to a sport. Strength training is what you make of it and it can be taylored to fit your exact needs. I don't undertand how it can't be done to help you be a better cyclist as a whole.

What are your thoughts?

I'm short of time at present, but here is an article i wrote for cyclingnews.com http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern

plus if you look in the training section of the forum, you'll see lots of threads and stickies on this topic by myself, andy coggan, roadie scum, 2lap, smartty/rst, and lindsay about the lack of effect of weights for cycling and how it maybe detrimental.

ric

 

[awest1982]

That's fine (if that's what you do). However, i was just replying to your blanket statement: "...The best advice I have for getting faster for racing is weight training for your legs, upper body and core and cadence work...." (etc).

as far as i'm aware we are talking about the off-season/winter. i have no idea why riding your bike year round would be counter productive (i've been doing it for the last 22 years). That sounds like you just need to alter your training regimen, if you are getting bored?

other than if you are bored senseless by riding or burnt out (i.e., psychological staleness) a "well deserved rest" would not improve performance. There is no evidence (other than e.g., your own anecdotal evidence) to support that a rest (even if you ended up cross training) of several months would improve performance (in your primary exercise modality).

i would guess that i have more experience (although i have no idea on your qualifications) considering that i coach pro cyclists (male and female), amateurs, masters, recreational riders etc. and am a sports scientist. i'm also a physiological consultant for Polar and other bike companies.

Ric

Ric, it does sound like you're an expert, given your resume. In my first post I noted that cadence work is good, as well as weight training and I never implied that anyone should not cycle at all...I ride indoors, with much enjoyment, 3 days a week for a total of only about 4hrs during winter/off season vs. the 10+ hrs per week or so during "season". (I'm not pro or anything). A well deserved rest, for me, is being able to cut down riding time and build muscle doing some things other than continually being in the "racing mode"...

I still strongly believe (despite my lack of scentific credence) that any type of recovery and off season is, and will always be, beneficial to an athlete. In 22 years you never took a recovery/off season?

And, should I assume the athletes that you train never use weight training to benefit their racing? They just ride, and ride, and ride? Is that the key to getting faster/better for an upcoming training season? Or is there simply "no evidence" to support what I believe...

Worth noting here also, this is simply what I believe, and what has worked for me. I am not a Cat 1 racer, but I immensely enjoy improving my bike splits.

Thanks for the replies Ric, interesting discussion.
Alex

 

[Equus123]

i read your article. very informative. thank you.


i guess my question is, then, do all types of weight lifting increase type 2 (fast twitch) muscle fibers? by types i mean lifting 10x3 @ 4RM, 5x4 @ 5RM, 3x10 @ 15 RM, 3x20 @ 25 RM. [sets/reps @ # rep max]. i understand that clearly the 10x3 and 5x4 are very type 2 dominant workouts. i guess i get unclear when it comes to lower weight, high reps done with slow concentric and eccentric movements. seems like it builds muscular endurance strength (if there is such a thing). do you get what i'm saying thought?

so with that, i would associate that way of lifting to benefit cycling. i can imagine not benefitting a 2 hour race as a whole, but sprinting, climbing hills, or short accelerations. i know that an entire race is not made of up only sprinting, hills, and accelerations and therefore in that sense, lifting does not benefit a cyclist. but isn't the whole picture defined by all the pieces? if lifting benefits these three things, all of which occur during a race, then doesn't it benefit a cyclist? is this line of thinking incorrect?

do you know if there's any benefit in injury prevention to people who strictly ride versus incorporating other training mediums such as lifting? i'm curious.

thanks Ric.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

just want to say this is a quick reply as i'm horribly busy...

Ric, it does sound like you're an expert, given your resume. In my first post I noted that cadence work is good, as well as weight training and I never implied that anyone should not cycle at all...I ride indoors, with much enjoyment, 3 days a week for a total of only about 4hrs during winter/off season vs. the 10+ hrs per week or so during "season". (I'm not pro or anything). A well deserved rest, for me, is being able to cut down riding time and build muscle doing some things other than continually being in the "racing mode"...

there's nothing wrong with doing other sports, just that in some people (e.g., trained cyclists) other sports won't have a positive effect on their primary sport.

I still strongly believe (despite my lack of scentific credence) that any type of recovery and off season is, and will always be, beneficial to an athlete. In 22 years you never took a recovery/off season?

i have a week off the bike every year -- used to be at some point in october, but now at end of september (as this coincides with wedding anniversary and going on holiday)

i then have an easy few weeks (e.g., unstructured training), and thereafter swing back into intervals or quality endurance rides depending on my programme. my hours on the bike are sometimes reduced, but that's simply due to more inclement weather in the winter.

And, should I assume the athletes that you train never use weight training to benefit their racing? They just ride, and ride, and ride?

for the majority that is correct. however, some do weights for other reasons (e.g., aesthetics).

Is that the key to getting faster/better for an upcoming training season? Or is there simply "no evidence" to support what I believe...

the key to getting faster (assuming you mean a sustained effort, rather than e.g., a 10-sec sprint) is to increase your LT (and TTpower) and MAP/VO2max, which are trained only in the primary modality.

Worth noting here also, this is simply what I believe, and what has worked for me. I am not a Cat 1 racer, but I immensely enjoy improving my bike splits.

Thanks for the replies Ric, interesting discussion.
Alex

Glad it's an interesting discussion (it is to me to). The key point i should add here is that it may be fine to do weights or whatever else training -- it's just that in trained endurance cyclists (e.g., those who race or could race) there isn't a benefit to your cycling and is likely detrimental.

Sorry for the brevity,
Ric

 

[ric_stern/RST]

i read your article. very informative. thank you.

again, apologies for my brevity.

i guess my question is, then, do all types of weight lifting increase type 2 (fast twitch) muscle fibers? by types i mean lifting 10x3 @ 4RM, 5x4 @ 5RM, 3x10 @ 15 RM, 3x20 @ 25 RM. [sets/reps @ # rep max]. i understand that clearly the 10x3 and 5x4 are very type 2 dominant workouts. i guess i get unclear when it comes to lower weight, high reps done with slow concentric and eccentric movements. seems like it builds muscular endurance strength (if there is such a thing). do you get what i'm saying thought?

if you were going to do weights to help cycling you'd be best off with exercises that caused hypertrophy. This would increase the force production of the muscles by a "true" increase in strength rather than a neuromuscular increase (which would only work for the joint angle and velocity that was trained, and would therefore be useless for a cycling).

however, the hypertrophy (good for sprinting) would lead to a relative decrease in muscle mitochondria and capillary density, which would cause a decrease in convective O2 delivery, which would lower aerobic performance.

so with that, i would associate that way of lifting to benefit cycling. i can imagine not benefitting a 2 hour race as a whole, but sprinting, climbing hills, or short accelerations. i know that an entire race is not made of up only sprinting, hills, and accelerations and therefore in that sense, lifting does not benefit a cyclist. but isn't the whole picture defined by all the pieces? if lifting benefits these three things, all of which occur during a race, then doesn't it benefit a cyclist? is this line of thinking incorrect?

sprinting yes (but at the decrease of aerobic capacity). climbing, TTing, RRing, etc no, as the forces required even for elite male cyclists are very low to moderate and can be met by untrained/sedentary (and healthy) age gender and mass matched populations (and often these people can exceed the force generating capacities of elite pro male cyclists as aerobic machinery - e.g., mitochondria, replaces contractile proteins).

do you know if there's any benefit in injury prevention to people who strictly ride versus incorporating other training mediums such as lifting? i'm curious.

most of the cyclists i know who get injured are injured in these ways
1) injured doing cross training (e.g., weights, stretching etc)
2) severe impact crashes

there is some evidence that weight bearing exercises may increase bone mineral density, but (and i'm not an expert in this area) it appears that weights may not do much for this (data is equivocal) (if memory serves me correctly running is much superior) and medical intervenion is the best method.

cheers
ric