Training Results In 5 Weeks???

[OCRoadie]

Hello Everyone-
I have 5 weeks of training time left until my biggest race/goal of the year. Everest Challenge is a two day stage race in the Calif. Sierras, it is the Cal/Nevada state climbing championships. Day one is 120 miles with 15,500' of climbing, day two is 86 miles with 13,500' feet of climbing. Each day is comprised of 2 massive climbs and one moderate climb.

This ride has been my ultimate goal for the year, all other goals have been to support this one. So far, I have about 4,000 miles in this year. The last month has been devoted to climbing training (hill interval repeats, sustained climbs and recovery).

My question is, how far do I push if for the next 5 weeks until I start to taper, and how much improvement can be made in 5 weeks.. I am worried if I push it to far I may end up fatigued or sick, and if I don't push it far enough, I may not be ready. Will a rigorous training program yield enough results to offset the risk of overdoing it? Here's what my training schedule is looking like

Monday: Off or recovery (16-20 miles at 70% MHR or less)
Tuesday: Hill Repeats (30 miles with 3000' of climbing 6-15% grades at 90% MHR)
Wed: Recovery (16-20 miles at 70% MHR or less)
Thursday: Sustained climb ( Mt Baldy 13.5 mile climb 4800' of climbing 8% avg. sections of 15%+)
Friday: Flat tempo ride (22-30 miles flat at 85% MHR)
Weekend- 1 long day (80-120 miles 6,000' - 10,000' of climbing). One day off.

I was thinking of doing Mt Baldy repeats, two times in a row 9600' over 54 miles, and also adding to my Tuesday hill repeats to make it 37 miles with 4,000'. These are the changes that worry me about pushing it too far. Is there much training benefit to these increases? or does my current schedule seem adequate? Thanks for any help/support. Ride Safe...Pat

 

[frenchyge]

That routine certainly sounds like some good work. How long have you been doing that particular routine? How do you feel right now? If you've been at it for a while at that intensity, then you might be due for a short break before one last push, and then the taper. I think 5 weeks still gives you a chance to really sharpen that peak for the big race.

With 5 weeks left, (assuming you don't need a quick break now, and that you're comfortable with your current work load) I would probably try to gradually increase from your current load each week, and then taper for the last week. Incrementally adding to your work load each week allows you to feel your way along to make sure you don't injure or over-extend yourself. I'd probably try for a 10% increase in load each week (volume, intensity, or both), for the next 4 weeks, and then taper that last week before the race.

 

[OCRoadie]

That routine certainly sounds like some good work. How long have you been doing that particular routine? How do you feel right now? If you've been at it for a while at that intensity, then you might be due for a short break before one last push, and then the taper. I think 5 weeks still gives you a chance to really sharpen that peak for the big race.

With 5 weeks left, (assuming you don't need a quick break now, and that you're comfortable with your current work load) I would probably try to gradually increase from your current load each week, and then taper for the last week. Incrementally adding to your work load each week allows you to feel your way along to make sure you don't injure or over-extend yourself. I'd probably try for a 10% increase in load each week (volume, intensity, or both), for the next 4 weeks, and then taper that last week before the race.

Thanks Frenchyge-
I've been with the current routine for a couple of months now, it has varied slightly. I just started the Mt Baldy climb this week, before that I was doing my hill repeats twice a week, but felt that I needed to start preparing for sustained climbs. I feel pretty good right now, I have days where I wake up with a sore throat, I now it's from lack of rest. All of my rides are around 5:30 am, so I am getting 6.5 -7.5 hours of sleep. When I feel the sore throat coming on, I take an extra recovery day or take the day off. This seems to keep sickness away, but I always feel like I'm on the verge of getting a cold. In the past I've done the 10% weekly thing, but I'm to the point where I can't add much more training time, due to family and work. I will have a couple of opportunities to do Mt Baldy repeats and up my hill repeats by one repetition. They won't neccesarily fall into a 10% increase scheme.

My feeling was that 5 weeks at high intensity and increased volume was probably enough time to make good improvement. I am glad that you think so as well. I just don't want to bust my balls if it's not enough time to produce results. I also welcome any other training routines/rides that may be useful. I pretty much gave up short sprint intervals a couple of months ago when I quit racing crits for the season in order to train for endurance and climbing. Take Care...Pat

 

[frenchyge]

Thanks Frenchyge-
I've been with the current routine for a couple of months now, it has varied slightly. I just started the Mt Baldy climb this week, before that I was doing my hill repeats twice a week, but felt that I needed to start preparing for sustained climbs. I feel pretty good right now, I have days where I wake up with a sore throat, I now it's from lack of rest. All of my rides are around 5:30 am, so I am getting 6.5 -7.5 hours of sleep. When I feel the sore throat coming on, I take an extra recovery day or take the day off. This seems to keep sickness away, but I always feel like I'm on the verge of getting a cold. In the past I've done the 10% weekly thing, but I'm to the point where I can't add much more training time, due to family and work. I will have a couple of opportunities to do Mt Baldy repeats and up my hill repeats by one repetition. They won't neccesarily fall into a 10% increase scheme.

My feeling was that 5 weeks at high intensity and increased volume was probably enough time to make good improvement. I am glad that you think so as well. I just don't want to bust my balls if it's not enough time to produce results. I also welcome any other training routines/rides that may be useful. I pretty much gave up short sprint intervals a couple of months ago when I quit racing crits for the season in order to train for endurance and climbing. Take Care...Pat

If you've got some lurking rest/illness issues then I'd probably take an extra 2-3 recovery/rest days just to make sure your body is ready for the final push. Also, I think I read on here somewhere that the body releases a large dose of human growth hormone after 7 or 8 hours of sleep. That's critical for recovery and development, so don't short change yourself on sleep (I'm guilty of that too...). If you're getting up early then go to bed early. This is also the time to start paying closer attention to your nutrition and hydration, if you haven't been doing so all along.

If you can't add more training time, then bump up the intensity in your existing workouts. Your base sounds pretty well established at this point, so spend your time at or just above threshold to really fine tune your fitness. Some modulating pace climbs where you push slightly and then recover at your normal/threshold pace might be good also. Don't bust your balls right away, though. Make a concerted effort to increase your time at/above threshold in week one, and see how you feel. Continue to bump it up in subsequent weeks if you still feel decent. It's okay if the fatigue (but not illness) creeps in a little in those weeks, though, since you're going to taper in the last week and bounce back fresh for the race. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[RapDaddyo]

Hey, OCRoadie. First, good luck on your ride in Sept. I think you'll do well. I think you face a tradeoff between increasing endurance vs. attempting to increase power. If it were me, and if my schedule permitted it, I would probably try to increase my mileage the next 3 weeks to ~300mi/wk at L3 pace as opposed to lots of interval work. I don't think your power is going to let you down, I think it's going to be your endurance, especially on Day #2. If your schedule doesn't permit more hours in the saddle, I agree with frenchyge that you can go hard for ~3 weeks and still have plenty of time to taper in the last 2 weeks. As to improvement in such a short amount of time, I've seen studies of different HIT (high-intensity interval training) regimens that have produced measurable improvements (e.g., 3-4%) in as little as two weeks and up to 6% in 4 weeks. So, yes, I'd say you can get a measurable improvement in as little as 3-4 weeks.

 

[OCRoadie]

Hey, OCRoadie. First, good luck on your ride in Sept. I think you'll do well. I think you face a tradeoff between increasing endurance vs. attempting to increase power. If it were me, and if my schedule permitted it, I would probably try to increase my mileage the next 3 weeks to ~300mi/wk at L3 pace as opposed to lots of interval work. I don't think your power is going to let you down, I think it's going to be your endurance, especially on Day #2. If your schedule doesn't permit more hours in the saddle, I agree with frenchyge that you can go hard for ~3 weeks and still have plenty of time to taper in the last 2 weeks. As to improvement in such a short amount of time, I've seen studies of different HIT (high-intensity interval training) regimens that have produced measurable improvements (e.g., 3-4%) in as little as two weeks and up to 6% in 4 weeks. So, yes, I'd say you can get a measurable improvement in as little as 3-4 weeks.

Hey RapDaddy-
Thanks for the support and input. I agree endurance is going to be key to surviving and hopefully being competitive in this race. This is the reason I killed one day of hill intervals and switched to a long sustained climb. Unfortunately, my schedule limits me to about 200-225 miles per week. I will try to keep upping the intensity, altough most of my climbing is in the 85-95% range as it is. I am hoping that my LT will go up and I'll get more power out of the 80% - 90% area. I plan on riding most of the race in the 82% area, with the exception of the steep stuff where 90% is the only way to get over it and the downhills where I can recover. On the Mt Baldy climbs, I'm going to start pushing the pace and then recovering while still climbing at a fairly high intensity.

I'm thinking that the Cool Breeze will be a good indicator of where I'm at. 125 miles with 10,000' is n't too far off from the effort of the first day of Everst Challenge. I still need to see if I can get some route info so that we can meet up on that ride. BTW, I've been following the Power Training threads by you and Frenchyge, very interesting stuff, though much of it's way over my head. I'll have to start thinking about getting a PM. Take Care...Pat

 

[RapDaddyo]

I'm thinking that the Cool Breeze will be a good indicator of where I'm at. 125 miles with 10,000' isn't too far off from the effort of the first day of Everst Challenge. I still need to see if I can get some route info so that we can meet up on that ride. BTW, I've been following the Power Training threads by you and Frenchyge, very interesting stuff, though much of it's way over my head. I'll have to start thinking about getting a PM. Take Care...Pat

I hope we can meet up somewhere, although it's a **** shoot as to what kind of pace I'll be able to maintain on the saddle. Today was the first day I tried to do anything >200w on the saddle in a long time. Went well, but it remains to be seen if I'm out of the woods. One more suggestion, which you could try in the Cool Breeze climbs. I like to alternate on/off the saddle on the long climbs, but when I haven't been climbing off the saddle much it seems to take an awful lot of energy. It gets better after I've done it for awhile (don't know why). You might want to begin integrating off-the-saddle climbing on long climbs if you don't already, for a change of stress on your muscles.

 

[OCRoadie]

I hope we can meet up somewhere, although it's a **** shoot as to what kind of pace I'll be able to maintain on the saddle. Today was the first day I tried to do anything >200w on the saddle in a long time. Went well, but it remains to be seen if I'm out of the woods. One more suggestion, which you could try in the Cool Breeze climbs. I like to alternate on/off the saddle on the long climbs, but when I haven't been climbing off the saddle much it seems to take an awful lot of energy. It gets better after I've done it for awhile (don't know why). You might want to begin integrating off-the-saddle climbing on long climbs if you don't already, for a change of stress on your muscles.

Good advice on the on/off the saddle climbing. On my hill repeats I go 1 minute on then 1 minute off, then 2 minutes on 2 minutes off, etc. I've tried it on the longer climbs, but it seems to tire me out quickly to be off the saddle. I am going to keep working on it, I need to be able to ride in different positions or my back will kill me. Also nice to be able to get off the saddle and raise the cadence a bit. Good luck on the glutes, hope to catch you next weekend.

 

[RapDaddyo]

Good advice on the on/off the saddle climbing. On my hill repeats I go 1 minute on then 1 minute off, then 2 minutes on 2 minutes off, etc. I've tried it on the longer climbs, but it seems to tire me out quickly to be off the saddle. I am going to keep working on it, I need to be able to ride in different positions or my back will kill me. Also nice to be able to get off the saddle and raise the cadence a bit. Good luck on the glutes, hope to catch you next weekend.

Yeah, that's a good training plan. I think I saw LA practicing that in one of the segments on his prep for this year's TdF. He asked Bruneel to honk the horn at 1 min intervals, then 2 min, etc., to trigger his on/off the saddle efforts.

 

[OCRoadie]

Yeah, that's a good training plan. I think I saw LA practicing that in one of the segments on his prep for this year's TdF. He asked Bruneel to honk the horn at 1 min intervals, then 2 min, etc., to trigger his on/off the saddle efforts.

That's where I "borrowed" this training plan from, it was on "Chasing Lance". It seems to be effective, but man it can hurt at the end of the second minute, especially in the second set of climbs.