Training Week Ending February 15, 2004



[email protected] wrote in news:QwpYb.2167$Nz2.44445
@news.itd.umich.edu:

> Runners actually lyse significant numbers of red blood cells in the capillaries of the feet as
> they run, so if my production is having trouble keeping up running high miles will hurt me more
> than help.

I've heard that this is usually a problem for a heavy runner doing high mileage.

-Phil
 
Goals: Improve my pace. Run 26.2 next month.

Mon: 8 miles Tue: 7 miles including hill work. 7 x long hills. 1.5 hours raquetball Wed: dnr, 1 hour
badminton. Thurs: 7 miles, including 1st ever speedwork session. 10 x 400m Fri: dnr Sat: 11.5 miles
Sun: dnr. Total: 33.5 miles

--
Colm

"SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> ---I finally found out why I've been running like ****...my hematocrit would be low even for a
> sedentary person. Much less trying to race. I need to back off on the miles and take iron now and
> try and get myself fixed before Boston. :( Andy Hass

If you don't mind telling, what was it?

Scott
 
Goals: Local Grand Prix races, two left in May. Currently I'm the *overall* women's leader! Looking
at the Steamboat Springs Marathon in June, still trying to see if the schedule will allow it. I am
SO looking forward to another marathon!!!

Mon: Rest Day Tue: 6.3 mi @ 7:53 pace. PR for me on this course. Happy to know I can still PR at 47!
;-) Not nearly as fast as my 10k-equiv PR, but this course has hills and about 35% is rocky trail.
Wed: 5.45 mi easy. (9:13 pace) Nice day. Thurs: No run, went home sick. Think I have a case of food
poisoning. Fri: Very easy 5.45 mi - 9:45 pace. Feeling quite weak yet. Sat: A Fine Valentine 10k.
Didn't do very well, still a little weak. Took me 50:24 (yikes!). But Claude and I still got 2nd
place couple in the 90+ couples age group, and still had a lot of fun. (And a mug for the effort)
Sun: 13.4 miles @ 9:33 pace. Ran Golden Gate Road in Saguaro Nat'l Park West, and waved at all the
out-of-state tourists here for the Gem and Mineral show. Got lots of amazed looks, it's not an easy
run, but very scenic. Still a tad tired but came through fine.

Total: 36.8 miles

Teresa in Az, land of confused weather. Early in the week we had a low of 18F, and yesterday
afternoon was in the low 80's!
 
joe positive wrote: .
> As for the marathon: I've got a goal and a plan, and I've done a lot of training, so we'll see if
> it all comes together next Sunday.
>

Good luck on Sunday, Karen! Hope everything works out well. You've certainly put in the training and
hopefully you can keep the ITB at bay.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
In article <[email protected]>, joe positive wrote:

> ITB continues to improve, though it flared a bit (and then subsided) toward the end of the week.
> Now it's taper time, and for good measure I'll "run" about 40% of next week's miles on the
> elliptical trainer. As for the marathon: I've got a goal and a plan, and I've done a lot of
> training, so we'll see if it all comes together next Sunday.

Good luck with the marathon, hope you have a good race -- you've certainly earned it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Scott Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:

>> ---I finally found out why I've been running like ****...my hematocrit would be low even for a
>> sedentary person. Much less trying to race. I need to back off on the miles and take iron now and
>> try and get myself fixed before Boston. :( Andy Hass

> If you don't mind telling, what was it?

> Scott

41.8. Normal is 42-52. Your average couch potato would be higher. Andy Hass
 
DrLith <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> > [email protected] wrote:
> > My best guess is that the punishment I put myself through combined
>> with stress was too much and threw me out of whack. I'm going to try training for Boston on my
>> old, lower mileage schedule (60-80 instead of 90-110) and taking iron. Then I'll have the
>> bloodwork redone in a month to see if it's helping, plus check ferratin and immature red cell
>> count (to see if bone marrow is churning them out at the right level).

> If I recall, there are various combinations that are believed to help or hinder iron absorption: I
> believe citrus juices help, while dairy products hinder...did whoever checked your hemocrit level
> mention any of those things? Do you eat much red meat?

My fiancee is a nurse practitioner so I got the lowdown on all that. The doc mentioned nothing (I
caught it myself) because, as usual, they did not take into account my athleticism when looking at
the data and figured (hey, that's a fine hematocrit for an 80 year old woman so it's fine for him).
I've argued with doctors about running-related ailments before...few will take it into account. I
even had a friend who was forced into a 24 hour EKG at age 23 because his HR was 50 so they were
convinced he was in trouble. Andy Hass
 
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Scott Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> ---I finally found out why I've been running like ****...my hematocrit would be low even for a
> >> sedentary person. Much less trying to race. I need to back off on the miles and take iron now
> >> and try and get myself fixed before Boston. :( Andy Hass
>
> > If you don't mind telling, what was it?
>
> > Scott
>
> 41.8. Normal is 42-52. Your average couch potato would be higher. Andy Hass

Just curious about hematocrit level you mentioned.

Is this the same measure that cyclists are being tested for? Cyclists are thrown out of races when
their hematocrit levels are above 50. The reports never mention what unit of measure so I'm guessing
this is a different measure you're talking about. But am I right?

Thanks, Andy

PS enjoy your dinners at Ruth's Chris Steak House.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Scott Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>>---I finally found out why I've been running like ****...my hematocrit would be low even for a
>>>sedentary person. Much less trying to race. I need to back off on the miles and take iron now and
>>>try and get myself fixed before Boston. :( Andy Hass
>
>
>>If you don't mind telling, what was it?
>
>
>>Scott
>
>
> 41.8. Normal is 42-52. Your average couch potato would be higher. Andy Hass

Oops. Sorry Andy, I missed it in your earlier post.

Have you ever gotten another reading to compare? And I assume your thyroid levels checked out OK?

From what I've read, 42% is very much in the normal range. Depending on your source, I've seen
"normal" quoted as 37-48%, 39-49%, 39-52%, etc. But >50% got Marco Pantani busted in the Giro
D'Italia (effectively ending his career), and very few cyclists need to get a medical waiver for
exceeding 50% (the limit in professional cycling for 5 yr. now). And a helluva lot of money is on
the line in pro cycling, so I would think they would be somewhat "gracious" in their limit.

Here is a clip about a 1999 UCI statement concerning pro cyclist hematocrit levels:

"The UCI announced on Tuesday that 16 riders hold 'statements' proving that they have naturally
occurring levels of hematocrit above 50 percent. Amongst these 16, are riders in all categories and
all disciplines. The 16 are not uniquely the riders in the Elite road category. No rider at the
highest levels of the UCI classification
[e.g., Lance Armstrong] are holders of such statements, the UCI statement said."

Note that NONE of the hematocrit-endowed athletes registered in the super-elite, God's-gift-to-
cycling category.

Also, hematocrit actually drops in highly trained athletes because of increased plasma volume. Bill
Rogers' hematocrit was probably much higher before he made his famous transition from smoking couch
potato to elite marathoner.

I read an interesting article, an interview with one of the top Italian cycling coaches. He said
that in trying to gage the potential of his cycling prospects, he wasn't overly concerned about
hematocrit, as it was far from being the only factor in determining the future success of an
athlete. In fact, he hypothesized that athletes, such as yourself possibly, who register in the
lower 40s, were forced to adapt physiologically in other ways that would provide greater benefit to
them down the road than having an naturally high hematocrit level.

When I was getting some cardiac tests, I noted that my hematocrit registered at 49 (kind of perverse
of me, considering I was possibly facing heart surgery), and, as you know, I am pack fodder by any
standard. And always will be. I also found my hematocrit curious, because I have a great deal of
trouble adjusting to high altitude. You'd think those extra blood cells could make themselves more
useful, but obviously there is more to it.

Sorry to blather on, but it seems to me you shouldn't get psyched out if your hematocrit doesn't
bounce into the high 40s. It doesn't mean you're going to bomb.

And one last thing, we all know what a hard-working, busy guy you are. Do you think you might be
burning the candle at both ends? -- Aren't you the guy who's getting married this spring??? I'd like
to think that this gal is taking up a fair amount of your energy! ;-)

Try to get your rest and eat some lean red meat. I wish you good health and the very best at Boston!

Scott
 
[email protected] (amh) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Scott Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > [email protected] wrote:
>
> > >> ---I finally found out why I've been running like ****...my hematocrit would be low even for
> > >> a sedentary person. Much less trying to race. I need to back off on the miles and take iron
> > >> now and try and get myself fixed before Boston. :( Andy Hass
>
> > > If you don't mind telling, what was it?
>
> > > Scott
> >
> > 41.8. Normal is 42-52. Your average couch potato would be higher. Andy Hass
>
> Just curious about hematocrit level you mentioned.
>
> Is this the same measure that cyclists are being tested for? Cyclists are thrown out of races when
> their hematocrit levels are above 50. The reports never mention what unit of measure so I'm
> guessing this is a different measure you're talking about. But am I right?
>
> Thanks, Andy
>
> PS enjoy your dinners at Ruth's Chris Steak House.

yup.
 
2004 Goals: 30 miles per week, lose 20 pounds, more speed work, have a shot at PRs.

Tues: 4.9 untimed Sat: 3 @ 9:03 per Sun: 5 @ 8:00 per

Miles for week: 12.9 2004 Average: 19.9
 
amh <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> Scott Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >> ---I finally found out why I've been running like ****...my hematocrit would be low even for a
>> >> sedentary person. Much less trying to race. I need to back off on the miles and take iron now
>> >> and try and get myself fixed before Boston. :( Andy Hass
>>
>> > If you don't mind telling, what was it?
>>
>> > Scott
>>
>> 41.8. Normal is 42-52. Your average couch potato would be higher. Andy Hass

> Just curious about hematocrit level you mentioned.

> Is this the same measure that cyclists are being tested for? Cyclists are thrown out of races when
> their hematocrit levels are above 50. The reports never mention what unit of measure so I'm
> guessing this is a different measure you're talking about. But am I right?

> Thanks, Andy

> PS enjoy your dinners at Ruth's Chris Steak House.

--Yes, that's the measure. They say normal is 42-52, but I know in cycling you are right about the
50 mark. Most distance runners are in the 47-49 range. Andy Hass
 
Scott Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Scott Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>---I finally found out why I've been running like ****...my hematocrit would be low even for a
>>>>sedentary person. Much less trying to race. I need to back off on the miles and take iron now
>>>>and try and get myself fixed before Boston. :( Andy Hass
>>
>>
>>>If you don't mind telling, what was it?
>>
>>
>>>Scott
>>
>>
>> 41.8. Normal is 42-52. Your average couch potato would be higher. Andy Hass

> Oops. Sorry Andy, I missed it in your earlier post.

> Have you ever gotten another reading to compare? And I assume your thyroid levels checked out OK?

> From what I've read, 42% is very much in the normal range. Depending on your source, I've seen
> "normal" quoted as 37-48%, 39-49%, 39-52%, etc. But >50% got Marco Pantani busted in the Giro
> D'Italia (effectively ending his career), and very few cyclists need to get a medical waiver for
> exceeding 50% (the limit in professional cycling for 5 yr. now). And a helluva lot of money is on
> the line in pro cycling, so I would think they would be somewhat "gracious" in their limit.

> Here is a clip about a 1999 UCI statement concerning pro cyclist hematocrit levels:

> "The UCI announced on Tuesday that 16 riders hold 'statements' proving that they have naturally
> occurring levels of hematocrit above 50 percent. Amongst these 16, are riders in all categories
> and all disciplines. The 16 are not uniquely the riders in the Elite road category. No rider at
> the highest levels of the UCI classification
> [e.g., Lance Armstrong] are holders of such statements, the UCI statement said."

> Note that NONE of the hematocrit-endowed athletes registered in the super-elite, God's-gift-to-
> cycling category.

> Also, hematocrit actually drops in highly trained athletes because of increased plasma volume.
> Bill Rogers' hematocrit was probably much higher before he made his famous transition from smoking
> couch potato to elite marathoner.

> I read an interesting article, an interview with one of the top Italian cycling coaches. He said
> that in trying to gage the potential of his cycling prospects, he wasn't overly concerned about
> hematocrit, as it was far from being the only factor in determining the future success of an
> athlete. In fact, he hypothesized that athletes, such as yourself possibly, who register in the
> lower 40s, were forced to adapt physiologically in other ways that would provide greater benefit
> to them down the road than having an naturally high hematocrit level.

> When I was getting some cardiac tests, I noted that my hematocrit registered at 49 (kind of
> perverse of me, considering I was possibly facing heart surgery), and, as you know, I am pack
> fodder by any standard. And always will be. I also found my hematocrit curious, because I have a
> great deal of trouble adjusting to high altitude. You'd think those extra blood cells could make
> themselves more useful, but obviously there is more to it.

> Sorry to blather on, but it seems to me you shouldn't get psyched out if your hematocrit doesn't
> bounce into the high 40s. It doesn't mean you're going to bomb.

> And one last thing, we all know what a hard-working, busy guy you are. Do you think you might be
> burning the candle at both ends? -- Aren't you the guy who's getting married this spring??? I'd
> like to think that this gal is taking up a fair amount of your energy! ;-)

> Try to get your rest and eat some lean red meat. I wish you good health and the very best
> at Boston!

> Scott

Interesting notes...Yes, I assumed stress/overdoing it might be part of it, but it's that rest
actually makes the symptoms worse that has baffled me. That and the fact that my aerobic threshhold
has obviously been falling despite my training. Maybe it's a little of everything... Andy Hass
 
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:47:37 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

> Most distance runners
> are in the 47-49 range.

Twit. Clearly you know little of the real world.

Most elite runners are at 50. Exactly. Every day. Question is, how does it get there and stay there?
 
Gone Tag. wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:47:37 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Most distance runners are in the 47-49 range.
>
> Twit. Clearly you know little of the real world.
>
> Most elite runners are at 50. Exactly. Every day. Question is, how does it get there and
> stay there?

Or could it not be that simply because they have haematocrits of 50 (we are talking about haematcrit
here are we, not age?) they have the ability to become elite athletes.

Tim

--
Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or http://www.justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK
tax payer.
 
Gone Tag. <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:47:37 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Most distance runners
> > are in the 47-49 range.
>
> Twit. Clearly you know little of the real world.
>
> Most elite runners are at 50. Exactly. Every day. Question is, how does it get there and
> stay there?

Do they really? Does running have an enforced 50% rule?