Training Week Ending February 29, 2004



"SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in news:mQ60c.350$n37.94101
@read2.cgocable.net:

> Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

M - dnr T - 7.2 easy @ 8:20/mi W - 9.0 5 up, 3 LT @ 7:30/mi, 1 down T - dnr F - 7.1 general aerobic
@ 8:14/mi S - 5.0 easy @ 8:33/mi S - 12.3 w/ last 4 @ MP 7:55/mi Total - 40.6

Comments: After last week's recovery week and cold, it felt good to get the miles back up. I ran my
first LT session on Wednesday. I'm not 100% sure that I was in the LT zone. But it felt like it was
about at my 10 mile race pace. I'll probably do one of these a week until the marathon program kicks
in. Sunday's long run went well.

Goals: 8 weeks to go until beginning the 24-week marathon training program that ends with the
LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon on 10/10/04. That seems like such a long time from now. Hopefully I
can stay focused.

Have a good week rec.runners.

-Phil
 
Hi David:

Doug is totally right (and he expressed himself beautifully, as usual--now if he could only
straighten out his politics!).

I had a similar history: I made huge strides in the first 16 months, then actually got slower, and
had tons of injuries for over a year. I was not happy.

Out of desparation I hit the books, and absorbed the lessons of periodization, recovery, hard/easy,
junk miles and moderation in speedwork.

Indeed, I am relearning some of these now, after a 15 year hiatus from racing. The devil of
overtraining is always whispering evil thoughts in my ear.

Back off, read (Ingrid Kristiansen's web site is a good start) eat right, check your hemoglobin and
hematocrit, and regroup for a few months.

On the nutrition front, I had been a lacto-vegetarian, my cholesterol was a very-low 120; resuming a
moderate intake of meat/chicken/fish may have been helpful in my comeback. My cholesterol rose to
150 as I got several notches faster.

--Dan

"SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
>
>
>
> Had a horrible race today. Sure it was windy and it's a hilly couse, but I don't use excuses like
> that. I'm a bad runner, and it's taken me a few years to realize that fact. Better now than a few
> years down the road.
>
> I will probably phase out competetive running over the next few months because I'm sick of
> embarassing myself and paying money to feel shitty. I've been at it for close to four years now
> and it's obvious I don't have the genetics or whatever it takes to run faster than a 90 year old
> with no legs. Plus all my PR's were set within a year or so of starting to run. Runners don't
> 'plateau' for 3 effing years.
>
> Thanks for reading my drivel.
>
>
> M off T off W out-of-saddle bike (2:00) ---> (run 8mph)x5 (last 2 bike intervals were
> 3:00)T 10km moderate (4:08/km (9mph)), 2km (3:23/km), 2k cool down F off S 4km easy, stretch S
> half marathon race, 1:22:57 (worst ever half marathon) 3km up
>
>
> total: 51km
>
> --
> David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most insecure people are the ones you see,
> putting other people down constantly."
 
A **** week.
Mon:dnr, unwell
Tue: dnr, Racquetball
Wed: dnr, Badminton
Thur: 8 miles
Fri: dnr, unwell
Sat: 5 miles
Sun: 10 miles - shin splints miles 2-7. My Kayanos are going in the bin. Shoe shopping tomorrow.

--
Colm

"SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
:
:
 
In article <[email protected]>, SwStudio wrote:
> "SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
>
> Had a horrible race today. Sure it was windy and it's a hilly couse, but I don't use excuses like
> that. I'm a bad runner, and it's taken me a few years to realize that fact. Better now than a few
> years down the road.

Aren't you just back into it for a short while after a layoff ? You're going to run some **** races
for a little while. My first race after my AT problem was a 10k in 46 minutes. I was getting my butt
kicked by cardio-bunnies wearing headphones. In my first comeback race (5k) after taking several
years off, I was beaten by some lady pushing a baby stroller. No kidding.

Didn't you have some injury problems that caused the layoff ? That would explain a 3 year "plateau".

> I will probably phase out competetive running over the next few months because I'm sick of
> embarassing myself and paying money to feel shitty.

That's not a bad idea. Why not take it easy for a while ? If you're training goes well, you'll be
hungry for competition again.

> I've been at it for close to four years now and it's obvious I don't have the genetics or whatever
> it takes to run faster than a 90 year old with no legs. Plus all my PR's were set within a year or
> so of starting to run. Runners don't 'plateau' for 3 effing years.

Is a "plateau" an accurate description of what's happened ? Or is it just that your training has
been constantly interrupted by various setbacks ?

--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Currently just screwing around -- actually in a rest/regroup period for a couple of months. Just
distance, no speed. I ran the Avalon 50 miler on Jan 10.

I don't even have a race planned, but probably will get fired up for one in April. I'm finally
getting the urge to push a bit.

Mon: 12 miles in 2:15 easy, 2,000 feet of climb. Tue: 12 miles in 2:15 easy, 2,500 feet of climb.
Wed: 11 miles in 2:00 easy, 1,000 feet of climb. Thu: 0 (rained out, needed a rest day anyway) Fri:
12 miles moderate, 2,000 feet of climb. Sat: 10 mi, reaalll slow, walked some hills. Sun: 21 mi
moderate, in 3:30, 5,000 feet of climb, Mt. Wilson, snow at top

Total: 78 miles, 12,000 feet of climb.
 
In article <[email protected]>, SwStudio wrote:
> Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Goals: done with the "baby intervals", time to get stuck into some serious interval work. The local
track (which was closed in Jan) is ready for me and now I'm ready for it.

M am: 4.6 pm: 4.6 T 10.3 W 6 T Armory meet: mile (5:06), 400m (61-2), 800m (2:19) F 1hr xtraining S
am Snowflake 4M (23:13) pm 8 miles 30min xtraining S am 30min xtraining pm 14.6

Total: 54.1

Might have screwed up and left out a 6 miler somewhere (thought I ran Thurs morning but that's not
what the log says), but I was aiming to do 50 so I hope the above is right.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
My advice is: don't force things when your knee hurts! In general, I'd recommend running only if
the pain is very slight. If you mess something up in there, that could be the end of your
competitive career.

You didn't describe the nature of the pain -- I've had several aches and pains there over the years,
and might be able to comment.

In general, icing (2-3 minutes several times/day) makes a big difference. Especially important for
competitors. If you had a trainer, I bet he'd have you on some kind of therapy -- ultrasound
and/or ice.

I've taken glucosamine for years. Anything which increases the rate of cartilage repair is a
good thing!

Regards,

Dan

"Brian Wakem" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> A very frustrating, and at times, depressing week due to a painful left knee.
>
> Felt some pain on Monday but it went away after a few miles. The same happened on Tuesday.
>
> Wednesday morning I had to stop due to severe knee pain - I ran/walked
home
> in agony and missed out on 10 miles that evening.
>
> Thursday the knee felt much better. Slight pain in the first mile went
away
> and the rest of the run was pain free.
>
> Friday morning I was in agony again, having to cut short my run. Friday afternoon, quite
> mysteriously, the pain had gone so I got 10 in with only minor discomfort at times.
>
> Saturday was supposed to be a hard fartlek but the knee pain was back in a big way.
>
> I've taken today off (was planning to do the Bramley 20) and will take tomorrow off. This couldn't
> of happened at a worse time, I should be reaching peak mileage in the build up to the Fleet half -
> At best I think I'll have to re-assess my time goal. If my knee doesn't sort itself out very
> quickly I will drop out of the half and aim for one 3 or 4 weeks later.
>
> I've bought some Glucosamine - anyone used this for knee probs?
>
>
> Monday: pm) 7.25 miles - easy/medium
>
> Tuesday: pm) 8 miles in total, 6 X 1000m w/30/120 sec rec - hard
>
> Wednesday: am) 4.25 miles - easy
>
> Thursday: pm) 9.25 miles, last 3 in 16:30 - easy/hard
>
> Friday: am) 2.5 miles - easy pm) 10 miles - easy/medium
>
> Saturday: pm) 2.25 miles - very easy
>
> Sunday: REST
>
> Total run: 43.5 miles
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Wakem
 
Still on track for Boston...

M: dnr
N: 8, ~7:00/pace
O: 8, 2x15 6:18 pace, 7:30 rest
P: 7, 7:30/pace
Q: 6, 8:00/pace
R: 2.5, slow....
S: 13.1 race, 1:23:20. Afterwards, felt really good, and while initially disappointed that I felt
that I could have run faster, the pace (6:21) suggests proper pacing, just below LT (as
estimated by 10k times). PR by 80 seconds while on a much hillier course.

Total 46.5

My goal for a sub-3 Boston is on target.

--Ryan
 
In article <[email protected]>,
SwStudio <[email protected]> wrote:
>Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Goals: general base-building, think vaguely about racing in the late Spring.

M: running, 5M, easy (41:11), 8:20 pace, trying to really go E for Easy runs. A little tight in the
upper quads from Sunday. Moderate weights.
N: running, 5M, easy (40:55).
O: running, 6 x (.5M @ T pace (6:58), 1m jogging), 5M total in 38:15.
P: serious weights.
Q: biking, 30m, moderate, just to keep heart going.
R: rest day.
S: running, 9M, slow on a hilly course (c. 8:30 pace). Felt slow but pretty good. total mileage: 24M

Last week my mileage was far too high at 29M (don't want to build too fast), so I cut back this
week, and also tried to force myself to slow down, instead of hammering on every run. Today's 9M was
however the longest run in years, and it felt fine.

Jesse Sheidlower
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote:

> onemarathon wrote:
>
>
> > arg.... David, David, David. you must cut yourself some slack. if *I* could score a 1:22 in a
> > half, i'd be in freakin' heaven. if you are "bad", then i'm way beyond bad. my best is 1:45 in
> > the half, and i was bloody happy with that time. but hey, it's all relative. so what is your HM
> > PR and your other typical HM race times?
>
> Cam, yes, his times are very respectible but that is not the problem. His concern is he has hit a
> pleateu for the last few years and not just one bad race.

yes, i understand the plateau concept (i'm there). i guess the one thing i could add here is that a
change in the attitude/approach to running could change things. i was feeling really stale and bored
by fall of last year. and i wasn't even suffering from injuries at that time. i just needed a
breather from the training and even just from running, period. i took some weeks off, then i just
ran once or twice a week for a while, just short easy-going runs. i maintained fitness through other
sports (cycling, swimming). i also tried something different with the running.... i refrained from
timing myself (which i was notoriously anal about previously) and started wearing headphones and
listening to a mini FM receiver during runs.... i'd listen to almost anything: music of all sorts,
talk radio, stations i wouldn't normally consider. it gave the running experience a new slant.

over the past weeks, i've been ramping up a bit, adding mileage and days. and i've been feeling very
motivated again. another thing i'll do is haul out the running and triathlon races i've accumulated
on videotape, for additional motivation. nothing like watching great racers in action, and feeling
the "high" as they conquer the odds.

i don't know if you are ready for something like this, David, but think about it. if you aren't
happy with your racing right now, then perhaps it's time to get out of the training and racing for
a while. just run casually for a while, maybe do some other sports in lieu of it... whatever keeps
you sane. if you are considering triathlon again this year, you could focus on swimming or cycling
now maybe.

anyway, just some stream-of-consciousness thoughts here...

Cam
 
onemarathon wrote:

>
> yes, i understand the plateau concept (i'm there). i guess the one thing i could add here is that
> a change in the attitude/approach to running could change things. i was feeling really stale and
> bored by fall of last year. and i wasn't even suffering from injuries at that time. i just needed
> a breather from the training and even just from running, period. i took some weeks off, then i
> just ran once or twice a week for a while, just short easy-going runs. i maintained fitness
> through other sports (cycling, swimming). i also tried something different with the running.... i
> refrained from timing myself (which i was notoriously anal about previously) and started wearing
> headphones and listening to a mini FM receiver during runs.... i'd listen to almost anything:
> music of all sorts, talk radio, stations i wouldn't normally consider. it gave the running
> experience a new slant.
>
> over the past weeks, i've been ramping up a bit, adding mileage and days. and i've been feeling
> very motivated again. another thing i'll do is haul out the running and triathlon races i've
> accumulated on videotape, for additional motivation. nothing like watching great racers in action,
> and feeling the "high" as they conquer the odds.
>
> i don't know if you are ready for something like this, David, but think about it. if you aren't
> happy with your racing right now, then perhaps it's time to get out of the training and racing for
> a while. just run casually for a while, maybe do some other sports in lieu of it... whatever keeps
> you sane. if you are considering triathlon again this year, you could focus on swimming or cycling
> now maybe.
>
> anyway, just some stream-of-consciousness thoughts here...

You raised some good points. Isn't running all about goals, expectations and aspirations? For some
it's weight loss, others better cardio, and yet others speed, etc etc.

I played the "run my ass off" for about 10 years. Did relatively well in age group awards
considering the time I had for miles and intensity. Each year I would struggle to shave off another
few seconds massaging some training variable(s). I finally decided all the hard work did not justify
the rewards. I was starting to have less and less fun with racing short(through the marathon). I
then moved to only to longer runs.

Somehow this recharged my batteries and I've stayed focused on the longer stuff for many years. My
body, mind and training are now in harmony and to me, harmony is what this sport is all about.
Could I run longer, harder and faster - sure. Do I want to add much more - nah, then it goes back
to being a grind.

Soooo, find what keeps your planets in line which can likely change from year to year.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
 
M DNR Tu DNR W DNR Th 2.25 F DNR S DNR Su 7.5 (3 miles doglick in the morning, 4.5 miles
fartlek at night)

Total = gonna round up to 10 miles.

Goals: consistent mileage of 28-30, then specific training toward fall trail half marathon, lose 30
lbs in 2004.

Low mileage recovering from 10-mile race last week and out-of-town friend visiting this weekend.
Down 8 lbs since Jan. 1 at end-of-month weigh-in, so that's on track. I think my intermediate goal
race will be a 10K trail race on April 24. Then I'll take a few easy weeks and start a 16-wk program
toward the half marathon in fall. I think my goal time there will be in the
3:00-3:20 range (the middle of the pack was 2:53 last year), so I'm going to work off a marathon
training program and make slight adjustments as appropriate.
 
SwStudio wrote:

> I will probably phase out competetive running over the next few months because I'm sick of
> embarassing myself and paying money to feel shitty. I've been at it for close to four years now
> and it's obvious I don't have the genetics or whatever it takes to run faster than a 90 year old
> with no legs. Plus all my PR's were set within a year or so of starting to run. Runners don't
> 'plateau' for 3 effing years.
>
David, You've already had a lot of good comments and suggestions. Mine is mostly reinforcing some of
those. My time frames might be a little off, but my recollection is you were running some pretty
good times about the time I started here, about 3 yr ago, and an inspiration to many of us. IIRC,
you've had some injury and health issues, but more importantly your band and cutting a CD took
priority for awhile - as it should have. It seems like you've just started training seriously again
fairly recently (6 months or so?). I think you just started with your 2nd coach (or is it your 1st).

FWIW, I don't see a 3-yr plateau there. I see a fairly recent return to serious training after maybe
a 1-yr break and lots of other interruptions even when you were being more consistent. Or perhaps an
interrupted learning curve, but not a plateau. Like it or not, we're all human - even you ;) You
can't step aside from training and expect to resume where you were. (my remembrance of time spans
and extent of breaks may be off)

Also, people respond differently to different kinds of training. You may not have gotten the results
you wanted from your best guess at what works for you. Now you've tried 1 or 2 coaches, but not sure
for how long. They may not get it right the first time either. We are all experiments of one (sorry
for the cliche). While some coaches may be more gifted than others at recognizing things that work
or don't work, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect instantaneous results from anyone
- you or your coaches. You may need to sit down with yourself and/or coach and figure out what's not
working, if anything. It could be something as simple as still having some pressures from rest of
life that's interfering or health. Or maybe you're expecting things to happen too fast. Dunno.

I know my goals and priorities are very different from yours, but I'm also looking for a routine
that works. I think I've found something that seems to be working for me now (at least as long as we
have snow). Will it work in the long term? I dunno, and I won't until I try it at least 1 yr (all
seasons). But I view it as a 3-yr learning experience that I hope goes on for another 30 or 40 (ok,
maybe 15-25 is more realistic in my case). I'll always be a beginner - beginning to learn something
new. And I hope I maintain that attitude in everything as long as I live. Yea, I'd love to be able
to scamper up Lazy Mt (3000ft vertical of 20-30% slopes) tomorrow, but it's not going to happen in
the next year or two or so (and I suspect never to actually "scamper" up). But I'm not going to let
that time frame deter me from doing the best I can to reach goals in time frames within the
constraints of what my body can handle. I've had to adjust goals and time frames as I've learned.
I'd rather adjust expectations and training than quit. I'm sure your body is more resilient than
mine ;), but the principles are the same.

There are no problems - only challenges and opportunities. You'll rise to meet these challenges, as
you've done in the past. You just need to figure out how to do it.

Dot March 2 is the 3rd anniversary of my first logged run so I've been reflecting about some
things lately.

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
I haven't posted here in ages, it's good to see some of the familiar names. I haven't trained like I
am now since 2002 when I ran ran 3:01 in Ottawa. I've been training seriously since October and plan
on running the ATB 30k on March 28 and the ING Ottawa marathon on May 30th.

My week:

Monday: 8K 35:20 Tuesday: AM 13k 57:45 PM 6.5K 30:30 Wednesday: AM 13k 56:56 PM 6.5k 29:41
Thursday: AM 13k 57:59 PM 6.5k 30:45 Friday: AM 13k 56:03 PM 6.5K 30:25 Saturday: 14k 1:01:09
Sunday: 20k 1:29:41

Total: 120k

Another goal I have is to be 12lbs lighter than in 2002, currently I am 8lbs lighter and running is
much easier and comfortable.

Bernard
 
>> Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
<<

Mon - DNR Tue - 3 miles, 28:32 Wed - 3.9 miles, 32:07 Thu - 6.4 miles, 53:58 Fri - DNR Sat - 1.5
miles, no time Sun - 5.3 miles, 46:50

Total - 20.1 miles
 
"SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
>
>
>
>
> cheers,

Ahh, I love it when my legs come around to normal. Two months of steady consistent short distance
without pushing myself finally paid off. I've decided to run weekdays with the hrm and keep it in or
around 150 (with lower better). This week saw a big drop in my times while keeping my hr average in
the low 150's. I even took a day off without concern when my r. knee got a bit achey. Seems fine
now. I ended up the week with a 3X2 mile trail relay where I ran the first leg on one team and the
last leg on another. Both times through were very consistant with the second run 6 seconds faster.
And after that hot chocolate, fresh cookies and chicken soup. All for no entry fee.

Tues 6 Wed 5 Sat 8 Sun 2 warm up then 2 X 2 miles.

Andy
 
SwStudio wrote:
> Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Mon: easy run 5.3 miles

Tue: Club run 4.8 miles @ 7:15mpm

Wed: Beach run 5 miles easy run with dogs

Thu: Club run, fartlek 4.8 miles @ 7:44mpm average pace

Fri: Beach run 5 miles easy run with dogs

Sat: WHW run (Benglas farm to Tyndrum and back) 24.5 miles.

Saturday was a great day to be running the West Highland Way. Cold enough to render this normally
muddy stretch of the way almost mud free but sunny enough not to feel cold. A group of 4 of us set
off from the Drovers Inn just north of Inverannan at about 9 am. Arrived at the Welly Boot (or Green
Welly or some such name) shop/cafe/tourist gifty shop two hours and 12 minutes later having averaged
a magnificent 10:22 mpm pace. ;-) Not exactly rocketing along but it felt hard enough. 25 minutes, a
mug of tea, a banana and the most artery clogging bacon sandwich I have ever had the pleasure of
eating later, we set off back down the road, the bacon sandwich making 10mpm seem like an ambitious
target even on the flat bits. Fortunately, after 5 or 6 miles, it seemed to do its stuff and I was
able to speed up for the second half of the return.

Finished off in just under 2:12 so techincally, negative splits! This does of course neglect the
fact that we losing height on the way back. Nevertheless, a memorable and almost pleasurable run.

By the by, for those who have doubts about the Timex GPS repeatability, our jouney measured 12.26 up
and 12.27 down. Considering the twists and turns, I think that's pretty impressive repeatability (if
not absoulute accuracy).

Sun: No running but I did drag the family out for a seven mile walk along the Greenock Cut.

Total for the week: 49.5 miles

Goals. Most immediate goal is to thrash one of my running mates at our 5K on Tuesday. Be interesting
to see how we've recovered respectively. He's not beaten me yet but he's improving fast and he's
over 20 years younger so it should be a good race.

Tim

--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.
Please support rheumatoid arthritis research!
Visit http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or
http://www.justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK tax payer.
 
"SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
>
>
>
> Had a horrible race today. Sure it was windy and it's a hilly couse, but I don't use excuses like
> that. I'm a bad runner, and it's taken me a few years to realize that fact. Better now than a few
> years down the road.
>

Enough of the self pitty.

> I will probably phase out competetive running over the next few months because I'm sick of
> embarassing myself and paying money to feel shitty. I've been at it for close to four years now
> and it's obvious I don't have the genetics or whatever it takes to run faster than a 90 year old
> with no legs.

Really, enough of the self pitty. It gets you nowhere. And you sound like a whiney twit. Especially
this early in the season.

Plus all my PR's were set within a year or so of starting to run.
> Runners don't 'plateau' for 3 effing years.

You took most of last year off it is going to take a while for your shape to really take form.

Go through your training logs. Whatever you're doing now isn't serving you well. Look at your diet,
your training schedule, the miles you run the, the recovery you take....

Anyone who can go from a cigarette smoking non athlete to a 1:20 half marathoner in 3 years is a
natural runner. You've got talent quit your whining and use it.

Andy

>
> Thanks for reading my drivel.
>
>
> M off T off W out-of-saddle bike (2:00) ---> (run 8mph)x5 (last 2 bike intervals were
> 3:00)T 10km moderate (4:08/km (9mph)), 2km (3:23/km), 2k cool down F off S 4km easy, stretch S
> half marathon race, 1:22:57 (worst ever half marathon) 3km up
>
>
> total: 51km
 
"Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Loaded Gunn) wrote in news:1343-4041F21A-8@storefull- 3271.bay.webtv.net:
>
> > pick up 10 cent cans so allways stoping getting off bike or hiking with backpac.
>
> A friend of mine, while out running, would stop and pick up any discarded Marlboro Milds cigarette
> packs she could find. Apparently there is some sort of coupon on them. If she picked up a pack and
> it didn't have the coupon, she would toss it back on the ground. The last time she did this she
> was spotted by a police officer. She received a citation for littering. The officer didn't buy the
> story about them not being her cigarettes.

Good for the cop. She picked them up they are hers, just as though she would have picked up a 5
dollar bill. It pisses me off to see slobs toss garbage on the ground. I've picked up plenty of
garbage I've seen people toss on the ground. I pick it up and say to them "I'll throw your garbage
out for you." and toss it in the nearest garbage can as I continue my run.

Hope the cop pulls over every smoker or non-smoker who tosses a cigarette or cigarette pack or other
garbage into the street.

Andy

>
> I don't know of too many women that smoke cigarettes while on a training run.
>
> Phil