Dot wrote in message ...
>Tony wrote:
>
>> Dan Stumpus wrote in message ...
>>
>>
>> My mpw has never been that high, and I'm trying to rely
>> on alot of cross training, which should work for shorter
>> ultras, but I'm not sure about a
100
>> miler. My running "base" is weak for a 4 hour run I
>> suppose, but I've always trained this way - about 5 hours
>> per week mixed running and
walking,
>> with a long run, bike or hike every 2 weeks or less. I
>> realize I need
more
>> base, particularly running. I've heard of other ultra
>> runners who don't
do
>> much between their weekly long runs, and I would prefer
>> to keep it like
that
>> too - weigh heavily on the long effort instead of piling
>> up the mpw. Hopefully this will work for me thru a 70
>> mile attempt. Then i'll see...
>
>This is the general approach I've been taking also -
>depending on the long run about every 2 wks for primary
>training although it's more than 50% of mileage for the
>week - although I'm just at the beginning stages of
>building time relative to others. From things I've looked
>at, the long run / total running percentage for a week
>tends to be lower for high mileage folks (>70mpw) and it's
>not at all unusual for ultra runners to have the long run
>greater than 50% of their weekly total. But many people
>train with a 2-3 wk microcycle rather than 1 wk, so weekly
>totals may not be that relevant.
Well for me last week I did about 5 hours running and
cycling, another 90 mins walking, then my long run was 4
hours, which is a high % of the weekly total I suppose. I
think 4 hrs is probably a bit long for me at this point, but
I feel great so far - this week will tell. In the past when
I was hitting all cyclinders in summertime, my daily average
went up alot, but then I found I didn't do the long efforts
as much. I like to save myself some for the long bikes and
runs and then recover early in the week with some quality
stuff wed or thurs, with nothing over about 1:40 per day,
less on average.
>
>Some of my observations: I haven't been doing any cross-
>training this spring (usually mt bike, xc ski, snowshoe,
>swim), and my last 3-4 long runs have been in the 1:4x to
>1:5x range. Weekly total has been 3-3.5 hrs on the week
>with the long run and 2-2.5 hrs the other weeks. A lot of
>my training is driven by weather / trail conditions and
>when my field work starts. This year I had one long run
>completely on dirt (as opposed to snow or partial snow)
>before my race that was cancelled (late May), and I had to
>do that 3.5 wks out because of field work, etc, in May. I'd
>been doing 1:30-1:45 on snowshoes (walk/ running) earlier.
>1:45 on snowshoes is not the same as 1:45 running on dirt.
>So there's a lot of just going by feel and see what works
>and hopefully I don't crash too
badly.
I too like to get out there, and I've burned myself out some
years by failing to rest enough in the summer, and then when
mid Fall comes I'm through.
>
>I'm guessing that some people may do better by increasing
>the other runs, and thus decreasing recovery, as percentage
>of week (more in line with published training schedules)
>while others will be inviting injury.
>
>My personal idiosyncrasy is that I like to be outside
>running, hiking, biking, snowshoeing, xc skiing, or
>whatever. When I was following the traditional 10% rule, I
>never felt that I was making any gains toward being able to
>go running for a few hours on the weekend. I felt caged,
>and would tend to revert to my other activities since I
>could just go do it for however long I wanted.
>
>However, once Doug suggested just go run / walk / snowshoe
>whatever for
>1.5-2 hr or whatever (anticipating race to take about 2
> hr), I got past that 1-1:15 hump I'd been on for the last
> year or so. Granted some of that was related to xt class
> on weekends, hence long runs in winter were after work in
> the dark, as well as achilles issues. I do much better
> with my long runs on a weekend day.
>
>It's only on the long runs that one really trains for the
>distance. In Kevin Setnes chapter in A Step Beyond, he
>notes that the long run trains the mind, nervous system,
>muscle fiber, connective tissue, and the endocrine system.
>Some of these can be trained on shorter runs, but it's not
>obvious how to train the endocrine system except by going
>long - for at least 3 hrs. The endocrine training is
>really an experiment of one and some may take longer to
>adapt than others.
Endocrine system - lol for me 6-8 weeks after a 50 miler.
A certain undefinable core tiredness would show up in my
long efforts.
>
>
>FWIW, I had the same problem near 2 hr that you are with 4
>hr, so I found Dan's comments interesting (very similar to
>my perceptions). When the snow started melting, I was
>running both in warmer (for me) temperatures and more on
>dirt (vs snowshoe running, running on snow), and increasing
>percentage of running in the long run/walk. I found the
>perceived effort of 20-40F didn't work at 62F. I was really
>sore and tired after my first mostly-dirt run this spring
>(about 4 days recovery, but then I was fine and raring to
>go for the next one). Next time, listened to body, went
>easier effort, and walked more hills *early* and did much
>better - got farther, more elevation gain, and recovered
>*much* faster afterward. Yesterday's almost-2-hr run was
>much better although it was a lot flatter course, and the
>few hills were longer, but gentler
>- downhills that weren't scary
And downhills don't hurt
> like they used to! (My usual course has a lot of small
> hills with 20-30% slopes with little flat = roller
> coaster.)
Yes, I'm learning slowly. This time I tried to slow down a
great deal, and it certainly helped. I used to way overdo it
on long runs and then often ended up not doing much until
thursday. Next time I'll either slow down a bit more, or
decrese the distance some. Downhills don't hurt me at all at
this point, even at close to 4 hours - I just love to run
the downhills. The crosstraining on the bike helps alot with
the leg strength for both downhills and uphills.
>
>I've been going largely by how my body feels and getting a
>feeling for recovery both within and between runs, rather
>than a formal schedule. I had a schedule made, but it just
>doesn't work with winter running in Alaska. The type run
>you can do is very different at 40F and no snow vs 0F and 2
>ft of snow, so I just go with the flow and am making more
>progress than with formalities.
>
I also have largely eschewed a formal schedule in the past
few months, though lately I've been doing the run/bike/walk
thing over and over regardless of what falls on the weekend.
The extra rest on walk/rest days seems to be a wonder. I may
modify this to accomodate a long bike every 2nd weekend and
the long run on the other weekends.
>
>>>I am not interested in doing much the rest of the day,
>>>though! Maybe
some
>>>light puttering, but not wrestling with the lawn mower...
>
>I mowed my lawn the day before
I had intended to
>fertilize when I got home yesterday, but decided I
>preferred barefoot walking in the lawn
I may eat/shower
>then catnap, then some light activity later in the day
>helps in recovery. This is why those 6:30-8:30 pm runs
>(same time as my race) were hard for me - no time to
>recover before bed.
>
>Dot
>
>--
>"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
>Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
Hey I read that book too...
