Transfer WKO license



frenchyge said:
<sigh>.... I also had some comments typed about how people should not post their creative ideas on how to use the software in unintended ways, but I assumed that (too) went without saying. We shouldn't really talk out of both sides of our mouths by criticizing developers for not allowing their work to be more flexible, and then openly posting the specifics on how to exploit their work.

So, I guess Hunter did not get the terms of use updated today like he said he was going to yesterday? Or are we just ignoring them now? :mad:


That wasn't the OP's point at all. That was a work-around for the security measures that was posted by a 'helpful' respondant.


Not ignoring anything. I took his changes to heart and assumed he made them. I still haven't put the money together to buy WKO+ as i'm doing fine without it for now. Still accumulating data within SRMWin. When I buy it I won't do as intended.

Now in regards to 'exploit' their work. How is it different to making a photocopy of certain pages in the book, using a highlighter on those pages (don't want to destroy the original), writing on those pages with my own notes and methods of understanding the concepts that are contained within.

So i'm using the photocopied pages for my own personal use, i'm using technology which allows for copyrighted material to be duplicated, but it all remains my care and control.

So... at what stage do you trust the end user with your intellectual property that you are selling, that the end user does the right thing?
 
swampy1970 said:
Amazing isn't it that people seem to think that people like yourself shouldn't be paid for putting together a book that helps them out and then somehow think that they're doing you a favour by buying your book - especially considering the amount of work, tests, data collection etc etc that went into writing what you did. I don't get it either...

I can see the original posters point about installing on a memory stick to allow for transfer of the application and it does sound like a great idea however it does lend itself to software piracy. I'm sure that the original poster wouldn't like to shell out another $100 for a product that would allow for installation on a USB memory stick but came with an anti-piracy "dongle" that plugged into a USB or parrallel port.

Maybe people should read the terms and conditions of the licensing agreement before getting a little ticked off on a forum ;)
Wow, them sure is alot of words I didn't say swampy.
Maybe you should read the terms of the software what the original user was asking about was not covered in them and keep your baiting to the mastery kind. ;)
 
acoggan said:
Mostly as an aside: I hope you realize that 95+% of what you paid for that book went to the publisher, and not to Hunter or myself.
edit: on second thought i'll remove my comment.
have a good day andy and best of luck to you and hunter.
 
frenchyge said:
To be clear, however, the response to the reasonable (original) request was that "yes, the customer support folks will assist in transfering a legitimately purchased license to a new computer" if the old computer becomes unusable. That is similar to the way Microsoft handles their product activations if your computer melts down and you need to re-install the software on a new computer. Hopefully that helps clear up any disappointment.
To be clear on what is being discussed.

Original Post said:
Possible to transfer a WKO license to another machine? I want to download and run on a company laptop but don't want to give up a Franklin should I move on to another company.
Hunter's reply said:
You will need to buy a 2nd copy at 1/2 off to run on a second computer.
Sorry, we have had so many people try to pirate our software that we had to institute a strict anti-piracy program within WKO to make sure we didn't go out of business!
If you do move to another company, then you can email our support team
[email protected] and let them know this situation and they will help you transfer the license to a new computer.

Hope this make sense.
Hunter
So yeah looks like a license transfer is possible.

frenchyge said:
I think stating that policy up-front in a friendly, supportive way before getting into the piracy, copy-protection, and single-user vs single-seat issues would have come across better and might keep people from looking for creative ways to use the software.
Agreed, it came across as treating a paying customer as a thief. And that is what was disappointing. I was pretty psyched to purchase the book, and get the software rolling on my own setup. For now I am sticking with some home rolled python scripts while I decide if I want to jump through hoops to run ERG+ or not.

I will say this thread did make the decision to hold off a bit easier, but the world moves on.

Peace guys.
 
parawolf said:
When I buy it I won't do as intended.
FWIW, I don't have a problem with that, and as long as you bought 1 copy I don't see that any harm has been done. When I was considering purchasing the software I e-mailed Hunter about the desire to review my files on home computer and laptop, and also received the answer that the security measures were developed because his self-funded niche business was being threatened by piracy efforts to the extent that it was in danger. It wasn't what I wanted to hear and I did try a couple things to see if I could get it to run on both computers (and failed), but I still bought the software for home (only) use and it's a great product that I've recommended to friends.

My problem comes in when someone finds a work-around or loophole in the security measures, and posts it in on a forum thread likely to be viewed by other prospective buyers instead of just privately enjoying the spoils of their knowledge and creativity. I see that as potentially diminishing the payback (perceived or real) that people receive for developing niche tools like WKO+, and when that payback is gone the tools will go away as well.


parawolf said:
Now in regards to 'exploit' their work. How is it different to making a photocopy of certain pages in the book, using a highlighter on those pages (don't want to destroy the original), writing on those pages with my own notes and methods of understanding the concepts that are contained within.
It's different because the courts say it's different, and the laws around digitally distributed products are different than those for physical property. I don't know the how's and why's of those legal decisions (and it's way beyond the scope of this forum anyway), but I do know that the analogy you presented would not stand up in court. Consider that if you purchase a book and read it, takes notes from it, whatever, that you are then able to re-sell the book because you fully own it. The same does not apply to a software license that is purchased. Difference between real property and intellectual property, I imagine.

parawolf said:
So i'm using the photocopied pages for my own personal use, i'm using technology which allows for copyrighted material to be duplicated, but it all remains my care and control.
I'm okay with it until the techniques are published on the internet for other likely purchasers to see, and at that point I don't see that you've maintained care and control of the info. That's the part that I see as jeopardizing the incentive for smart people to develop tools to share their knowledge with the rest of us.
 
So, let me get this straight 3rensho. You would rather have "Free" software that's not as robust as one that is relatively inexpensive(hell, I couldn't fill up my car this summer for less $100 in gas), doesn't have any support
(GC guys most times don't reply, don't know solutions for weeks at a time, can't fix bugs), and is dependent for new releases, bug fixes
and new file formats to when one of the contributors has been 'downsized' and now can work on the 'free' software for a couple of weeks.... Oh, not to mention the fact that it won't even download directly one of my power meters, nor give me half of the charts that WKO does.
I just don't get how $99 software and if I have to buy a 2nd license at $48 bucks is ripping me off?

The guys at WKO have done a hell of a job and continue to innovate. Especially the contributions of Hunter and Andy Coggan, have contributed immensely to the improvement of thousands of cyclists. What other forum
have you been able to interact with the authors of 'The book' much less ANY book for goshsakes!? I have never been in a forum where I could actually ask the author of the book questions. I mean, that's worth 5 copies of software to me!

It seems to me that Hunter has had this discussion before and this is another rehash of the same old stuff. People want all the bells and whistles, but don't want to pay for it. I am sure he's frustrated by the lack
of respect and willingness for people to try his pirate wko and get something for nothing.

Me? I am proud to pay for a couple of licenses for WKO. I use it everyday and when my laptop computer died, Matt(their support guy)
got me a new code within hours of me emailing him.
"Ya git what ya pay for".....
Bob


3rensho said:
Yeah wouldn't want anybody to use their copy of the software they paid you for on their computer. Better force them to buy a second copy for no reason at all and claim it is due to "piracy" :rolleyes:

Less restricitive or Free Software (go read up on GPL) is going to eat your lunch pal.
Enjoy your monopoly while you can.:p
 
Bob Edberry said:
So, let me get this straight 3rensho. You would rather have "Free" software
Yes.

Bob Edberry said:
What other forum have you been able to interact with the authors of 'The book' much less ANY book
It's called "The big blue room" you should try it sometime. :D
 
I was thinking of formatting my hard disk and re-installing WKO+.

Who am I supposed to contact before doing this?

email handy anyone?
 
Shortly after purchasing the CS600X w/power (when available) I intend to purchase WKO+. I am not happy with the way that it is packaged, but I will accept it. If anyone at Training Peaks is listening, and it is obvious that they are, your program would be much more useful to me if it were web-based and I could subscribe to, or pay additional for the service.

I travel and there is not a Polar product made that can store training data from multiple sources (speed, power, cadence, HR, etc.) on 1 second intervals over a few hours, thus the need to download the info, clearing the bike-based receiver. I do not travel with a computer because I have access to computers everywhere I go. Even in my hometown I use four computers at work and one at home. Wouldn't it be nice when you're bored at work to call up your training data and get a head start on planning or refining your afternoon workout?, or analyze yesterday's effort?, or if at a race, analyze what you did each day?

For this I would gladly pay $150 and a reasonable annual fee to download to and access my web-based data on your program from anywhere. There are many upsides to making your program web-based and no downsides that I am aware of, unless of course you are web-less. One of the great upsides is that you can invite guests to look at your data, e.g. cardiologists, kinesiologists, trainers, WKO+ experts (you guys for a fee), etc. in an effort to help the athlete improve either his/her training, or his/her understanding of the data.

I look forward to your response and I fully intend to use your product per your conditions.
 
Done. That fast enough for ya?
;-)

Not quite, but it's getting there. Check out the beta version of www.trainingpeaks.com sign up for a free account and then use the BETA 3.0 version. Many of the charts are there. You can upload your files and view the graph. It's pretty darn sweet.

Hope that helps.
Hunter



oh!-man said:
Shortly after purchasing the CS600X w/power (when available) I intend to purchase WKO+. I am not happy with the way that it is packaged, but I will accept it. If anyone at Training Peaks is listening, and it is obvious that they are, your program would be much more useful to me if it were web-based and I could subscribe to, or pay additional for the service.

I travel and there is not a Polar product made that can store training data from multiple sources (speed, power, cadence, HR, etc.) on 1 second intervals over a few hours, thus the need to download the info, clearing the bike-based receiver. I do not travel with a computer because I have access to computers everywhere I go. Even in my hometown I use four computers at work and one at home. Wouldn't it be nice when you're bored at work to call up your training data and get a head start on planning or refining your afternoon workout?, or analyze yesterday's effort?, or if at a race, analyze what you did each day?

For this I would gladly pay $150 and a reasonable annual fee to download to and access my web-based data on your program from anywhere. There are many upsides to making your program web-based and no downsides that I am aware of, unless of course you are web-less. One of the great upsides is that you can invite guests to look at your data, e.g. cardiologists, kinesiologists, trainers, WKO+ experts (you guys for a fee), etc. in an effort to help the athlete improve either his/her training, or his/her understanding of the data.

I look forward to your response and I fully intend to use your product per your conditions.
 
Hunter w/kg said:
Done. That fast enough for ya?
;-)
Are you saying that if I download your trial WKO+ program and choose the Beta 3 Version I can upload data from my current Polar Precision SW and analyze it for a short while and my data and your program are web-based?

If so, would you please include the URL of the upload instructions. Thanks
 
oh!-man said:
Are you saying that if I download your trial WKO+ program and choose the Beta 3 Version I can upload data from my current Polar Precision SW and analyze it for a short while and my data and your program are web-based?

If so, would you please include the URL of the upload instructions. Thanks

Not quite. Go to trainingpeaks.com, there's an entirely web-based programme there that you can sign in to for free (there are add-on pay-for bits). There is a small free device downloader prog, you might need to put that on a memory stick to use it wherever you go, but it'll let you upload to trainingpeaks. All for free. The website is officially in beta, but it works really well.

Once you get home you can export the data from trainingpeaks back to wko+.

For Hunter: do you think we'll ever be able to get the full wko+ service, TSS, PMC etc from the online prog? (paying extra as necessary of course)
 
rob of the og said:
Not quite. Go to trainingpeaks.com, there's an entirely web-based programme there that you can sign in to for free (there are add-on pay-for bits). There is a small free device downloader prog, you might need to put that on a memory stick to use it wherever you go, but it'll let you upload to trainingpeaks. All for free. The website is officially in beta, but it works really well.

Once you get home you can export the data from trainingpeaks back to wko+.

For Hunter: do you think we'll ever be able to get the full wko+ service, TSS, PMC etc from the online prog? (paying extra as necessary of course)


We are definitely working on it!
Hunter
 
For Hunter: excellent customer service from TrainingPeaks who helped me get WKO+ up and running again after my hard drive crashed.

With renewed enthusiasm I dusted off and started reading again my copy of "Training and Racing with a Power Meter".... there are not many books I've read more than once: this is at least the third time!

Thanks

Ken
 

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