Trek 5200 - 5900 - Madone 5.9

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by D.P.G., Nov 15, 2003.

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  1. D.P.G.

    D.P.G. Guest

    I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1 1/2 years 5000 miles. I average
    about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides range between 20 and 50 miles. My
    average speed on group rides is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will gain anything with the purchase of
    either the 5900 or the Madone 5.9. I have heard many different opinions from the members of the bike
    club. I don't mind spending the money for either of the bike's but would hate to do so and find no
    improvement. I tried the 5900 but it's hard to tell from one short test ride.
     
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  2. Dave Lehnen

    Dave Lehnen Guest

    D.P.G. wrote:

    > I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1 1/2 years 5000 miles. I average
    > about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides range between 20 and 50 miles.
    > My average speed on group rides is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will gain anything with the purchase
    > of either the 5900 or the Madone 5.9. I have heard many different opinions from the members of the
    > bike club. I don't mind spending the money for either of the bike's but would hate to do so and
    > find no improvement. I tried the 5900 but it's hard to tell from one short test ride.
    >
    >

    The lighter bikes will make you very slightly quicker up long hills, very slightly slower down long
    hills, and the difference on flat ground will be too small to make any real difference. You already
    have an excellent bike, and the new one won't make you beat people who used to beat you. You can
    gain much more from training than from new expensive hardware.

    Dave Lehnen
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>, Dave Lehnen
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > D.P.G. wrote:
    >
    > > I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1 1/2 years 5000 miles. I
    > > average about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides range between 20 and
    > > 50 miles. My average speed on group rides is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will gain anything with
    > > the purchase of either the 5900 or the Madone 5.9. I have heard many different opinions from the
    > > members of the bike club. I don't mind spending the money for either of the bike's but would
    > > hate to do so and find no improvement. I tried the 5900 but it's hard to tell from one short
    > > test ride.

    > The lighter bikes will make you very slightly quicker up long hills, very slightly slower down
    > long hills, and the difference on flat ground will be too small to make any real difference. You
    > already have an excellent bike, and the new one won't make you beat people who used to beat you.
    > You can gain much more from training than from new expensive hardware.

    Dave's recommendations are all very true, and indeed if you have the money to spend, you could spend
    it on personal coaching for much greater gains.

    However, I'd like to encourage you to buy a new Trek anyways, especially if you take about a 52cm
    frame. It's the rapid turnover by well-heeled leading-edge riders like you that makes the vast
    selection of used bicycles at good prices available to cheap scrounger riders like me. The 5900 is
    slightly lighter than the Madone, but the Madone is slightly more aero and is still lighter than
    your old and busted 5200. If you're a hillclimb specialist, the 5900 is the best choice (Be Like
    Lance and mount a left-side DT shifter. It's very cool), otherwise go for the Madone.

    Either way, I--er, _you_, can't go wrong.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  4. CannondaleRider

    CannondaleRider New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
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    -----------------

    Yes, to back up Ryan, I would say if you are a 52cm you definitely should go to any other bike, it's time...Come on, who in his right mind wants to be seen on a 5200 (Ryan, am I right?), you need the 5.9.
    Don't get the wrong idea here, but how much do you want for the 5200 and how soon would you be able to bring it over?

    C'Rider
    President - NY Chapter - "CRAWCE"
    (Cannondale Riders Afflicted With Carbon Envy)
     
  5. > I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1 1/2
    years
    > 5000 miles. I average about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides range
    > between 20 and 50 miles. My average speed on group
    rides
    > is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will gain anything with the purchase of either the 5900 or the Madone
    > 5.9. I have heard many different opinions from the members of the bike club. I don't mind spending
    > the money for either of
    the
    > bike's but would hate to do so and find no improvement. I tried the 5900
    but
    > it's hard to tell from one short test ride.

    It's going to be tough to tell the differences on a short ride, as all three bikes have virtually
    identical geometries... my guess is that the biggest initial difference you'll notice will come from
    the lighter wheels on either the Madone or 5900.

    The Madone or 5900 both have nicer equipment than what you're presently riding, and that might have
    an effect on how much you enjoy the bike, more so than the slight weight difference between them.
    The Madone is a whopping 2 ounces heavier than the identically-equipped 5900 we have in our Redwood
    City location; compared to your 5200, there will be about a 1.5 pound weight difference. Enough to
    feel climbing a hill? Probably not when seated, but when you're standing and the bike's moving
    side-to-side underneath you, it becomes (at least to me) noticeable.

    I'd go for the new bike because it seems like something new & exciting, and maybe that will make you
    want to ride more. But don't look for either one to improve your speed to a significant degree on a
    group ride, aside from the excitement of something new (and know that it's about as good as you can
    possibly get) making you ride harder.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  6. Carl Fogel

    Carl Fogel Guest

    "D.P.G." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]_s03>...
    > I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1 1/2 years 5000 miles. I average
    > about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides range between 20 and 50 miles.
    > My average speed on group rides is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will gain anything with the purchase
    > of either the 5900 or the Madone 5.9. I have heard many different opinions from the members of the
    > bike club. I don't mind spending the money for either of the bike's but would hate to do so and
    > find no improvement. I tried the 5900 but it's hard to tell from one short test ride.

    Dear D.P.G.,

    Notice that you improve from 19 to 20.5 mph merely by riding in groups. Either you're drafting, your
    group picks easier rides, or you're enjoying the benefit of pacing, a polite phrase for not dozing
    off quite so much because there's company and you'd like to be ahead of them.

    If Lance Armstrong found a bike that increased his speed almost 8%, he certainly wouldn't let anyone
    sell it to the rest of us.

    Carl Fogel
     
  7. nobody-<< I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1 1/2 years 5000 miles. I
    average about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides range between 20 and 50
    miles. My average speed on group rides is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will gain anything with the
    purchase of either the 5900 or the Madone 5.9. >><BR><BR>

    No, and it would be a shame if a bike seller said you would, then didn't.

    Bicycle equipment is hyped way out of proportion to what it actually doies in bicycle performance.
    There are really only four things that make a difference-

    -fit-does your bike fit ya? -fitness-are you? -fat, lack thereof on you -finesse-riding and
    racing smart

    all else, like the difference between the 5200, 5900, madone, is minor to non-existent.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  8. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

    > compared to your 5200, there will be about a 1.5 pound weight difference. Enough to feel climbing
    > a hill? Probably not when seated, but when you're standing and the bike's moving side-to-side
    > underneath you, it becomes (at least to me) noticeable.

    1.5 lbs = 0.8% of rider+bike weight, or so...

    That's about 11 seconds on Old La Honda.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    > nobody-<< I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1
    > 1/2 years 5000 miles. I average about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides
    > range between 20 and 50 miles. My average speed on group rides is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will
    > gain anything with the purchase of either the 5900 or the Madone 5.9. >><BR><BR>
    >
    > No, and it would be a shame if a bike seller said you would, then didn't.
    >
    > Bicycle equipment is hyped way out of proportion to what it actually doies in bicycle performance.
    > There are really only four things that make a difference-
    >
    > -fit-does your bike fit ya? -fitness-are you? -fat, lack thereof on you -finesse-riding and
    > racing smart
    >
    > all else, like the difference between the 5200, 5900, madone, is minor to non-existent.

    Peter! You're ruining everything!

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  10. > > compared to your 5200, there will be about a 1.5 pound weight difference. Enough to feel
    > > climbing a hill? Probably not when seated,
    but
    > > when you're standing and the bike's moving side-to-side underneath you,
    it
    > > becomes (at least to me) noticeable.
    >
    > 1.5 lbs = 0.8% of rider+bike weight, or so...
    >
    > That's about 11 seconds on Old La Honda.

    By noticeable, I didn't mean time-wise. I find I can detect pretty small differences in weight when
    standing, where I'm essentially isolating my weight from the machine. The bike simply feels very
    different (not as much mass moving from side-to-side). When seated, the weight is all part of the
    package, everything moving together.

    However, how a bike "feels" can have a major effect on your effort. We have a customer who
    upgraded from an older LeMond Tourmalet to a Zurich, perhaps a four pound difference in weight,
    probably a bit less than that. He came in complaining about the setup of the new bike, because he
    was getting knee pains. We checked things over very carefully; the two bikes were *identical*
    (same shoes & pedals from his old bike too). Easy to do, since they had the same geometry. The
    difference? He was climbing Old LaHonda literally four minutes faster than before. His new bike
    was simply more fun to ride in some manner, such that he felt like going all-out in a way that was
    a bit much for his knees.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  11. Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Dave's recommendations are all very true, and indeed if you have the money to spend, you could
    > spend it on personal coaching for much greater gains.

    > However, I'd like to encourage you to buy a new Trek anyways, especially if you take about a 52cm
    > frame. It's the rapid turnover by well-heeled leading-edge riders like you that makes the vast
    > selection of used bicycles at good prices available to cheap scrounger riders like me. The 5900 is
    > slightly lighter than the Madone, but the Madone is slightly more aero and is still lighter than
    > your old and busted 5200. If you're a hillclimb specialist, the 5900 is the best choice (Be Like
    > Lance and mount a left-side DT shifter. It's very cool), otherwise go for the Madone.

    > Either way, I--er, _you_, can't go wrong.

    But shouldn't you be spending the money on coaching, Ryan?
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>, Benjamin Weiner <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Dave's recommendations are all very true, and indeed if you have the money to spend, you could
    > > spend it on personal coaching for much greater gains.
    >
    > > However, I'd like to encourage you to buy a new Trek anyways, especially if you take about a
    > > 52cm frame. It's the rapid turnover by well-heeled leading-edge riders like you that makes the
    > > vast selection of used bicycles at good prices available to cheap scrounger riders like me. The
    > > 5900 is slightly lighter than the Madone, but the Madone is slightly more aero and is still
    > > lighter than your old and busted 5200. If you're a hillclimb specialist, the 5900 is the best
    > > choice (Be Like Lance and mount a left-side DT shifter. It's very cool), otherwise go for the
    > > Madone.
    >
    > > Either way, I--er, _you_, can't go wrong.
    >
    > But shouldn't you be spending the money on coaching, Ryan?

    Stripped for racing, my current bike weighs something like 22 pounds. A Trek OCLV with good
    components would probably hit 16-17. I'm probably within 8 pounds of my goal weight (150) for next
    year already, and in an easy trajectory to lose that much before the races start next year.

    Yeah, the coaching would probably still help more, but I may be the only guy in this ng who can
    honestly claim that the weight difference between these two bikes would make a performance
    difference for the racing I do.

    But then, that's not really the point, is it?
    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  13. Andrew Price

    Andrew Price Guest

  14. Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > But shouldn't you be spending the money on coaching, Ryan?

    > Stripped for racing, my current bike weighs something like 22 pounds. A Trek OCLV with good
    > components would probably hit 16-17. I'm probably within 8 pounds of my goal weight (150) for next
    > year already, and in an easy trajectory to lose that much before the races start next year.

    Yeah, right. Don't believe everything you read on TV. A google search of this group suggests that a
    Trek 5200 weighs 18-19 lbs without pedals (or cages presumably). A 22 lb bike is already fairly
    light. To get to 16-17 with pedals you probably need very light components and/or very light wheels
    with tubulars, at least.

    Last year I was loitering with one of the local D3 pros at a race. His new bike was sick light. He
    also estimated it would cost over $5000 retail.

    > Yeah, the coaching would probably still help more, but I may be the only guy in this ng who can
    > honestly claim that the weight difference between these two bikes would make a performance
    > difference for the racing I do.

    What kind of racing is that? Bike toss? BTW, I have a 28 lb touring-bike cyclocross conversion, and
    I actually have to carry the monster :p I still get beat by ripped older guys on full-squish
    mountain bikes, because as always, it is about the rider.

    > But then, that's not really the point, is it?
    > --
    > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

    Well, it is if you want Fabrizio to respect you, and that is a major part of racing, after all.

    I am the last person who should be giving out coaching advice on Usenet, but here goes. Based on
    what you've said elsewhere, start doing longer rides as base or preparation training. If you have
    comfort or fit issues that keep you from doing a five hour ride, spend money to resolve that
    (saddle, professional fitting, etc). Do long rides with people that are faster than you and you'll
    get faster, or die trying, IME.

    Ben
     
  15. D.P.G. wrote:
    > I have been riding a Trek 5200 Stock from the factory for about 1 1/2 years 5000 miles. I average
    > about 19 MPH riding alone on a good mix of flats and hills. Rides range between 20 and 50 miles.
    > My average speed on group rides is 20.5 MPH. Do you think I will gain anything with the purchase
    > of either the 5900 or the Madone 5.9. I have heard many different opinions from the members of the
    > bike club. I don't mind spending the money for either of the bike's but would hate to do so and
    > find no improvement. I tried the 5900 but it's hard to tell from one short test ride.

    I have a 5200 and have absolutely no plans of upgrading whatsoever, since I am so happy with it.
    However the Madone is such a beautiful bike that I would like to have it for that reason only. Maybe
    I'll buy a Madone frame and sell my 5200 frame, maybe. I've got a lot of DA stuff on already so the
    main thing would be the wheels, Ok I only have 9 speed. Well I just built my first couple of wheels
    a week ago and.....

    I think you're already a sucker for a new bike, so go for the Madone since it looks so damn hot.
    Everything else is about as equal as it can get if you're not doing le Tour.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  16. > Yeah, right. Don't believe everything you read on TV. A google search of this group suggests that
    > a Trek 5200 weighs 18-19 lbs without pedals (or cages presumably). A 22 lb bike is already fairly
    > light. To get to 16-17 with pedals you probably need very light components and/or very light
    > wheels with tubulars, at least.

    The "googled" weights listed of the 5200 are accurate, just as the 15 lbs, 10 ounces w/o pedals is
    an accurate, verified weight for a 58cm Madone about 30 feet away from where I sit. Toss in pedals
    at a pound or less, and you're in the 16-17 pound range on the stock bike with no extraordinary
    effort (aside from losing a bit of pocket change!).

    Who reads TV anyway?

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com
     
  17. In article <[email protected]>, Benjamin Weiner <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > > But shouldn't you be spending the money on coaching, Ryan?

    > Yeah, right. Don't believe everything you read on TV. A google search of this group suggests that
    > a Trek 5200 weighs 18-19 lbs without pedals (or cages presumably). A 22 lb bike is already fairly
    > light. To get to 16-17 with pedals you probably need very light components and/or very light
    > wheels with tubulars, at least.

    Touche. But you know, my bike is lugged. That can't be aerodynamic :). Seriously. I love the bike.
    The most fun part is beating expensive bikes.

    > Last year I was loitering with one of the local D3 pros at a race. His new bike was sick light. He
    > also estimated it would cost over $5000 retail.
    >
    > > Yeah, the coaching would probably still help more, but I may be the only guy in this ng who can
    > > honestly claim that the weight difference between these two bikes would make a performance
    > > difference for the racing I do.
    >
    > What kind of racing is that? Bike toss? BTW, I have a 28 lb touring-bike cyclocross conversion,
    > and I actually have to carry the monster :p I still get beat by ripped older guys on full-squish
    > mountain bikes, because as always, it is about the rider.

    Okay, yes.

    > > But then, that's not really the point, is it?
    > > --
    > > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni
    > > Fan Club
    >
    > Well, it is if you want Fabrizio to respect you, and that is a major part of racing, after all.

    Are you kidding? Fabrizio wants me to get on a decent Cannondale Saeco replica, and then work on the
    training :).

    > I am the last person who should be giving out coaching advice on Usenet, but here goes. Based on
    > what you've said elsewhere, start doing longer rides as base or preparation training. If you have
    > comfort or fit issues that keep you from doing a five hour ride, spend money to resolve that
    > (saddle, professional fitting, etc). Do long rides with people that are faster than you and you'll
    > get faster, or die trying, IME.

    Oh, I know. My weekend rides should be nice serious multi-hour tours. Right now they're nonexistent.
    Maybe I'll try joining the 80 km "easy spin" ride that runs on Sundays... (easy spin = 3 hours!)

    At some point, my racing goals will start conflicting with my ability to put in riding time. When
    that happens, the goals will give way. Racing is a fun way for me to gain fitness (horses for
    courses; I know some people who enjoy riding 600 km in 40 hours...who knows why...), and I do want
    to win a race or two and Cat up this year. We'll see.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  18. Tuschinski

    Tuschinski New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
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    A bit against the grain:

    it is possible to get a small gain from your material esp at the higher speeds.

    Aero dynamic wheels can really help you a few %.

    The supposed time difference with the madone is quite silly tough:)

    And yes, yes, yes:) Training+ a good fitting bike are way more important. But if you have those bases covered and you still use standard wheels (and have the moolah): it is a relatively decent upgrade to get some custom wheels.

    -Personal and unwanted advice: I think a well made steel or Aluminium frame with your own custom painting beats a run of the mill (lmao!) Trek Madone any day. It's probably cheaper (you can go as crazy as you want) and it is unique, it is truly yours.
     
  19. H. M. Leary

    H. M. Leary Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction
    Bicycles" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Yeah, right. Don't believe everything you read on TV. A google search of this group suggests
    > > that a Trek 5200 weighs 18-19 lbs without pedals (or cages presumably). A 22 lb bike is already
    > > fairly light. To get to 16-17 with pedals you probably need very light components and/or very
    > > light wheels with tubulars, at least.
    >
    > The "googled" weights listed of the 5200 are accurate, just as the 15 lbs, 10 ounces w/o pedals is
    > an accurate, verified weight for a 58cm Madone about 30 feet away from where I sit. Toss in pedals
    > at a pound or less, and you're in the 16-17 pound range on the stock bike with no extraordinary
    > effort (aside from losing a bit of pocket change!).
    >
    > Who reads TV anyway?
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com
    >
    >

    POCKET CHANGE????

    You call $5800 bucks pocket change???

    I am going into the bicycle business! I will make a million dollars in no time.

    Of course, I will have to start with 2 million...)

    HAND

    --
    ³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

    - Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution
     
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