Trek / Bianchi story

jj said:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed he
"forgot"😉. The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

When I went in to select a bike he tried to sell me a suspended bike with a
big saddle, and wouldn't even fit me to the bike I did purchase. In fact he
wandered off in the middle of a sentence as I was asking him to show me how
to remove the front wheel, (and was getting out my credit card to have him
ring me up) to service a walk-in who was just browsing. If I'd had any
sense, I'd have walked out of the store.

You should have followed your gut instinct and walked. There is no
excuse for his behavior and he should not be rewarded with a sale. My
LBS experience is that it varies greatly and I happily give my business
to the shop(s) that treat me well. My most recent bike is of much higer
quality than I am a rider :-). And the LBS where I bought it sells only
higher end bikes and has lots of serious racers as customers. Yet I was
treated with respect and interest and they spent literally hours with
me as I worked out my bike lust and then spent several sessions on the
fit so that it became "just right."
Well worth the small premium I paid over gettin ght bike on line.

gds said:

jj said:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed he
"forgot"😉. The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

When I went in to select a bike he tried to sell me a suspended bike with a
big saddle, and wouldn't even fit me to the bike I did purchase. In fact he
wandered off in the middle of a sentence as I was asking him to show me how
to remove the front wheel, (and was getting out my credit card to have him
ring me up) to service a walk-in who was just browsing. If I'd had any
sense, I'd have walked out of the store.

You should have followed your gut instinct and walked. There is no
excuse for his behavior and he should not be rewarded with a sale.

True. But he had ordered this bike for me to try and I felt a little
obligated. Shouldn't have been, b/c they order bikes all the time.

I'm slow to anger and it was only afterwards that I got steamed at this.
The LBS people are frequently, ime, elitist, acting bothered if you come
into the store, making even experienced people hesitate to ask for help, or
to request a test ride, sighing and acting perturbed. Note one poster
feeling bad because he had returned to the store three times and had the
wrench ask 'you back again!' Some stores, if you're not a competitive MTB
rider, or roadie, depending on their particular bias, will hardly even talk
to you, making you ask for everything, volunteering nothing - you have to
pump them for every bit of info, and they're even give authoritively
sounding but patently wrong answers to valid questions.

Quoted message said:

My LBS experience is that it varies greatly and I happily give my business
to the shop(s) that treat me well.

I know this now.

Quoted message said:

My most recent bike is of much higer
quality than I am a rider :-). And the LBS where I bought it sells only
higher end bikes and has lots of serious racers as customers.

Mine should have gotten a clue given the depth and scope of the questions I
was asking, but no...

Quoted message said:

Yet I was treated with respect and interest and they spent literally hours with
me as I worked out my bike lust and then spent several sessions on the
fit so that it became "just right."

Heh. I simply can't imagine an LBS sending 'hours', hell, even one hour
with me helping to select and set up a bike. Of course I've only been to
three local shops and one or two out of town shop. You're lucky, imo.

Even the best LBS I visited, out of town, nice guys all, wanted me to ride
the bike around the sparse space on the showroom floor, around a small
aisle, surrounded by bikes, rather than test ride outside. Sheesh. At least
they finally set me up on a trainer, and then said I could ride in the
parking lot. They didn't make it easy, but weren't overtly hostile like my
local shop.

Quoted message said:

Well worth the small premium I paid over gettin ght bike on line.

Sure.

jj

Quoted message said:

I'm thinking his wife needed to mind their own business. Is there any real
difference between a Taiwanese Trek and a Taiwanese Bianchi? Nope.

You are quite mistaken. That's like saying there's no difference between an
IBM laptop and a GQ (Fry's/Outpost house brand). Just because both are made
in either China or Taiwan doesn't put them on the same level. The bike
manufacturers in Asia will only build to what's expected and paid for.
They're as willing to build cheap garbage with great paint jobs as they are
great frames with poor paint. I've been fortunate to be at the table on
nearly all sides of this industry, and, while I can't speak for what goes on
at many companies, I do have the inside track at Trek. They benefit greatly
from having substantial manufacturing experience, so they have a better
handle than most in terms of what can, and should, be done. They have their
own internal tests for durability, for example... something not found at
most other companies, who simply order from a literal catalog of options and
then bring in bikes by the container, shipping them out directly to dealer
without ever having looked at the finished product.

Trek also has *huge* leverage with suppliers, such that they're less-likely
to be sold product with problems (because it will come back to them in a way
that hurts financially). Not to say that things don't happen that shouldn't,
but when they do, Trek is known to be one of the very best in the business
in terms of taking care of things.

So please, don't assume that country of origin, by itself, has much to do
with the quality of the product. It's always dependent upon the people who
spec it, the people who check it, the people who stand behind it. Even down
to the level of the dealer.

PS: This isn't meant to slam Bianchi. It's only meant to dispel the myth
that all bikes from a certain country, or even from the same factory within
that country, are equivalent. I have no grudge whatsoever against a company
where one of the high-ups is a guy I used to race with back in the 70s,
almost pure sprinter, who used to wheel-suck every chance he could and then
race past us for the win at the end. And I certainly have no memories of the
Patterson Pass Road Race in 1973(?) when we were juniors and I didn't
realize they'd lifted the gear restriction for that race, and us climbers
were taking it way too easy and didn't blow Rod off he back on a climb
there's no excuse for us not dropping him on, and so when we got to the
downwhill, tailwind sprint... :>😉 [The reality is that Rod was, and likely
still is, a really great guy. You could probably do worse than buy a bike
from his company.]

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"~R" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was wheeling my bike (trek) out of the building, on my way out
the door leaving work last evening, when a middle aged woman
joined me on the elevatoer. She looked at my bike in a slight
disgust and said, "ewww, Trek!". "Wha? Treks are great! What's
wrong with Trek?", I replaied. She explained that her husband was
the local Bianchi rep and I should be riding a Bianchi! She was
very insistant.

"Ya know what", I said, "back in May when I was shopping around
for a bike, I looked everywhere in town for a freakin' Bianchi,
and there were NONE to be bought anywhere. There was one small
time bike shop that I visited, and the guy said he was 'between
brands' at the time. Meaning he just got out of a deal with one
company and was about to attmept to start dealing with another,
namely Bianchi. He showed me a catologue of these gorgeous
Bianchis, but I couldn't wait around to see if it actually went
through. He sounded wishy washy on the certainty of Bianchi
coming in to his store. " She still insisted I go find a Bianchi.
I should call her husband and he'll order one for me. I'm
thinking that if he's a local rep, he should probably get his
bikes into some local stores. Is that unreasonable? Especially if
he wants to make any money.

And it was May, for Christ-sake! The riding bug was in full bite,
and I was ready to go. I bought the best bike I could afford
after 2 weeks of driving LBS owners crazy trying every bike under
$1000 in their stores. A Trek 7200 FX, and I'm real happy with
it. BTW, I didn't see any Bianchi's winning any stages in the
TDF, or did I miss something?

I'm thinking his wife needed to mind their own business. Is there any real
difference between a Taiwanese Trek and a Taiwanese Bianchi? Nope.

Quoted message said:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed
he
"forgot"😉. The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

Wait a sec, I'm not reading something right. Are you saying the LBS cut down
the steer tube, to get the bars lower? That can't be right. Please tell me
it's not right. You say "cut off the handlebar stem" so maybe it's something
else.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:34:44 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed
he
"forgot"😉. The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

Wait a sec, I'm not reading something right. Are you saying the LBS cut down
the steer tube, to get the bars lower? That can't be right. Please tell me
it's not right. You say "cut off the handlebar stem" so maybe it's something
else.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp/cuttingforktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

Quoted message said:

If the bike is
available in Celeste it's made in italy

not completely true, the Milano has been available in Celeste, but not
made in Italy

Quoted message said:

Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like
this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp/cuttingforktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

JJ: Routinely cutting down fork columns doesn't make sense to me. If someone
doesn't want the stem so high, they can first reverse the stem (so it point
level or perhaps even down, instead of up), and if that's still not enough,
they can move spacers from the bottom to the top. This might not look as
pretty, but it gives you a lot more flexibility down the road since once you
cut a fork, you can't make it taller (aside from putting on adapter pieces).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:34:44 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I
needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed
he
"forgot"😉. The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

Wait a sec, I'm not reading something right. Are you saying the LBS cut
down
the steer tube, to get the bars lower? That can't be right. Please tell me
it's not right. You say "cut off the handlebar stem" so maybe it's
something
else.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like
this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp/cuttingforktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

So far, 400 miles. The 72 was the best hybrid they had available
in the store. I was just getting back into cycling after about 2
yrs off. I had moved to a new city and it was a combination of
getting used to the way idiots drive around here and settiling in
with the new job/house/etc. I didn't want to get too fancy at
first, in case it didn't work out that I was going to get really
into riding again. Like I told the LBS guy, if it works out that
I get really into riding, I'll come back next spring and get the
better bike, either a top of the line hybrid or a road bike. So
far, I'm getting into it, riding to work as often as possible. I
ride about 4 days a week.

thanks for all the replies!

~Rob

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:03:49 GMT, "~R" <[email hidden]> wrote:
:
: >I bought the best bike I could afford
: >after 2 weeks of driving LBS owners crazy trying every bike
under
: >$1000 in their stores. A Trek 7200 FX, and I'm real happy with
: >it. BTW, I didn't see any Bianchi's winning any stages in the
: >TDF, or did I miss something?
:
: How many miles have you put on it? Why a 72? The 75 is
significantly better
: and well under 1000.
:
: jj
:

Of course I didn't see any Trek 7200FX's. I went with the hybrid
because I thought it would be a little stronger with my 240 Lb
belly, not to mention if I had to duck off the road quickly to
avoid an idiot driver! Most of the shoulders out here are just
grass, dirt, or gravel. Not too many sidewalks.

And from what the nutty hardcore experts say, little details on a
bike make the difference in long races like TDF and whatnot.

~Rob

"Jeff Starr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:24:52 -0400, jj<[email hidden]> wrote:
:
: >On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:03:49 GMT, "~R" <[email hidden]> wrote:
: >
: >>I bought the best bike I could afford
: >>after 2 weeks of driving LBS owners crazy trying every bike
under
: >>$1000 in their stores. A Trek 7200 FX, and I'm real happy
with
: >>it. BTW, I didn't see any Bianchi's winning any stages in the
: >>TDF, or did I miss something?
: >
: >How many miles have you put on it? Why a 72? The 75 is
significantly better
: >and well under 1000.
: >
: >jj
:
: He has the bike, he is happy with the bike, why make him second
guess
: his purchase? Or, for that matter, ask him to explain himself.
:
: For the OP, the reason you didn't see Bianchi's winning
stages, is
: that the winners were riding a different brand of bike. Barring
: mechanical problems, the TDF riders could win on any bike that
was
: used during the race. It's the rider[the engine], not the
equipment.
: And of course, you didn't see any Trek riders on 7200FX bikes.
:
: Winning races is no way to judge the quality of a bike, unless
your
: main use for that bike, is racing. And even then, proper fit
will be
: the riders number one concern.
:
:
: Life is Good!
: Jeff

~R said:

So far, 400 miles. The 72 was the best hybrid they had available
in the store. I was just getting back into cycling after about 2
yrs off. I had moved to a new city and it was a combination of
getting used to the way idiots drive around here and settiling in
with the new job/house/etc. I didn't want to get too fancy at
first, in case it didn't work out that I was going to get really
into riding again. Like I told the LBS guy, if it works out that
I get really into riding, I'll come back next spring and get the
better bike, either a top of the line hybrid or a road bike. So
far, I'm getting into it, riding to work as often as possible. I
ride about 4 days a week.

thanks for all the replies!

~Rob

Well that's certainly enough to let you know if the bike fits. As Chris
says, though that bike might fit some people, the 'relaxed geometry',
sloped top tube and wide grip straight bars that camber your wrists can be
torture to some riders.

When I got back on my hybrid (I have the 7500fx) when my road bike was in
the shop it still fit pretty well, but holding my arms out a full 43 cm
between them, it really felt unnatural. My wrists are cambered out from 180
degrees (or straight wrists and arms) to about 210 degrees, and the wider
grip pulls me forward putting more pressure on the hands. If it wasn't a
riser bar, I'd shift all the componentry inward to allow something similar
to that nice 33cm distance I have on my roadbike (a 42cm width bar, but
allowing 33cm from inner wrist bone to wrist bone). But I can't since
there's no room, beyond an inch or so total because of the bar camber. ;-(

I also don't like the straight bar because now I find the palms down grip
uncomfortable and I really like the thumbs up palms facing grip I get on
the road bike on the hoods. I'm actually a bit more upright because my arms
are closer together, but when riding I can easily bend the arms and get
more aero. I'm nicely stretched out, unlike the position on the straight
bar hybrid.

I think your plan is a good one. Just remember, when you go back, test ride
some more, get them to put the bike on a trainer in the store to get
everything aligned, make sure you can get in the drops ok. Then when the
seat is at the right height the bars are right, the stem is right, or
swapped for a longer one, (or inverted), go out and ride around the area
near the shop. Try to find a short hill, stand to pedal, yada, yada.

Might be a good time to go clipless too. When you get back have them fit
you for good shoes, and mid-priced clipless pedals and ride them on the
trainer practicing getting clipped in and out. Besides the other obvious
value of clipless pedals you have the added feature that it puts your foot
in the same place every time you ride. You can really groove in your pedal
stroke, etc.

Good luck and thanks for the reply.

jj

jj said:

Might be a good time to go clipless too. When you get back have them fit
you for good shoes, and mid-priced clipless pedals and ride them on the
trainer practicing getting clipped in and out. Besides the other obvious
value of clipless pedals you have the added feature that it puts your foot
in the same place every time you ride. You can really groove in your pedal
stroke, etc.

Good luck and thanks for the reply.

jj

I think he would be better off going clipless, before he gets the new
bike. Then he will be used to pedals and not have to focus on them,
while getting used to the new bike.
The other option, is to get a deal on the pedals/shoes, by buying with
the bike, but don't install them until you are used to the new bike.

Quite a while back, I met up with a rider, at a stoplight. She
struggled to get going, being in a much too high gear. I suggested to
her, that it might be better to down shift, before stopping. She
agreed, but said she had just got the bike and couldn't remember
everything, because of her concern, and need to learn to use the
clipless pedals. It is just one example, but reinforces my belief,
that when learning to ride clipless, the rest of the bike should be
automatic. Shifting and braking should require no concious thought.
That way, you can focus on the pedals.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Jeff Starr said:

jj said:

Might be a good time to go clipless too. When you get back have them fit
you for good shoes, and mid-priced clipless pedals and ride them on the
trainer practicing getting clipped in and out. Besides the other obvious
value of clipless pedals you have the added feature that it puts your foot
in the same place every time you ride. You can really groove in your pedal
stroke, etc.

Good luck and thanks for the reply.

jj

I think he would be better off going clipless, before he gets the new
bike. Then he will be used to pedals and not have to focus on them,
while getting used to the new bike.

Little argument there, JS, though I had so little trouble switching to
clipless in retrospect, it's not as big a deal as some might think. In
addition, if you don't have a trainer, then doing the whole deal using
their trainer to get used to clipping in and out is a bonus. Roger will
vouch. ;-)

Quoted message said:

The other option, is to get a deal on the pedals/shoes, by buying with
the bike, but don't install them until you are used to the new bike.

Exactly. I got more than half off, let them keep the toeclipped pedals.

Quoted message said:

Quite a while back, I met up with a rider, at a stoplight. She
struggled to get going, being in a much too high gear. I suggested to
her, that it might be better to down shift, before stopping. She
agreed, but said she had just got the bike and couldn't remember
everything, because of her concern, and need to learn to use the
clipless pedals. It is just one example, but reinforces my belief,
that when learning to ride clipless, the rest of the bike should be
automatic.

Sure. And it might be that what you thought was automatic suddenly became
sensory overload, heh-heh. I still shift the wrong way once in a great
while, d'oh. ;->

jj

Quoted message said:

Shifting and braking should require no concious thought.
That way, you can focus on the pedals.

Life is Good!
Jeff

jj said:

Riding my hybrid is torture on the wrists and arms after 15 miles, though I
can work through it. One hand position and it's all wrong, imo <g>.

Oh, man, I'm with you there. Right now I'm riding a freebie Walmart
hybrid while I'm trying to figure out what to do with my repair or
replace dilemma on my Bianchi. It is a sucky bike of course in all ways,
shapes, and forms--but I just can't imagine it ever being as comfortable
on the long haul as a road bike. The crank-arms feel short, there's only
one position, and I'm not sure if I'll ever develop the balance to
no-hand it to stretch my back. If you try to use your upper body much on
a climb, it gets all wibbly on you, and I won't even talk about the
ridiculousness that is getting out of the saddle on a climb!

I doubt any of that would be significantly altered by riding a $700
hybrid instead of a $70 one, so I'm really glad I found that out without
spending money. My husband rides a hybrid and tried to talk me into
replacing the road bike with one. Bleagh. Nope! I do like the gearing
range, but if I were to replace my road bike, it'd be trivially easy to
get one with a born-to-climb triple crank setup.

Quoted message said:

Plus, I swear, I'm much more upright on the drop bar roadie on the hoods
and certainly on tops near the stem than the supposed 'upright, relaxed
geometry' hybrid. My hands are closer together on the roadie, but I'm able
to get more stretched out just by bending the arms. I still think I have
some minor adjustment to do since I end up more on the nose of the saddle
than sitting on the back, but I'm hoping the body will adjust as time goes
on.

Can you move the saddle any farther forward? That's an adjustment that
can easily be undone if you don't like it.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:06:32 -0400, DrLith <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I still think I have

Quoted message said:

some minor adjustment to do since I end up more on the nose of the saddle
than sitting on the back, but I'm hoping the body will adjust as time goes
on.

Can you move the saddle any farther forward? That's an adjustment that
can easily be undone if you don't like it.

Well, if you picture it, when you move the saddle forward you change the
angle of attack at the pedals and it can affect the knee. I can sit on the
seat ok, it's just that after about 10 minutes I have to shift back from
the nose again. The saddle is leveled, and I'm avoiding tilting the nose up
for the time being, but that's my first option.

Good luck solving your dilemma re: the Bianchi

jj

jj - Thanks, will do!

~Rob
:
: I think your plan is a good one. Just remember, when you go
back, test ride
: some more, get them to put the bike on a trainer in the store
to get
: everything aligned, make sure you can get in the drops ok. Then
when the
: seat is at the right height the bars are right, the stem is
right, or
: swapped for a longer one, (or inverted), go out and ride around
the area
: near the shop. Try to find a short hill, stand to pedal, yada,
yada.
:
: Might be a good time to go clipless too. When you get back have
them fit
: you for good shoes, and mid-priced clipless pedals and ride
them on the
: trainer practicing getting clipped in and out. Besides the
other obvious
: value of clipless pedals you have the added feature that it
puts your foot
: in the same place every time you ride. You can really groove in
your pedal
: stroke, etc.
:
: Good luck and thanks for the reply.
:
: jj
:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No taiwan frame or bike is anywhere near the quality and feel of a good
italian or American.

I must disagree. I have a Gunnar Sport and a Schwinn Peloton. Both are
steel, the Gunnar is True Temper OX2, and the Schwinn is Reynolds 853. The
Gunnar is sport touring geometry, and the Schwinn is racer boy. Both are
totally comfortable, both feel great, and the weld quality on the Schwinn is
almost as good as the Gunnar, but I got the Schwinn frame for a hundred
bucks new on eBay. The Gunnar frame was ten times that.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like
this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp/cuttingforktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

JJ: Routinely cutting down fork columns doesn't make sense to me. If
someone doesn't want the stem so high, they can first reverse the stem (so
it point level or perhaps even down, instead of up), and if that's still
not enough, they can move spacers from the bottom to the top. This might
not look as pretty, but it gives you a lot more flexibility down the road
since once you cut a fork, you can't make it taller (aside from putting on
adapter pieces).

When I bought my Gunnar, I had to specify to the wrench that I wanted my
bars the same height as my saddle. He wanted to cut the steer tube and fit
the bike with a riser stem(if that's the right term). I insisted I wanted
him to use spacers and a straight stem, which gives me more flexibility to
change position. He did it, but kind of begrudgingly. I have 8 spacers and
it's very comfortable. It's a semi compact frame so I have about 1.5
handfuls of seatpost showing also. It looks good, though.

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 00:14:05 GMT, "Gooserider" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like
this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp/cuttingforktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

JJ: Routinely cutting down fork columns doesn't make sense to me. If
someone doesn't want the stem so high, they can first reverse the stem (so
it point level or perhaps even down, instead of up), and if that's still
not enough, they can move spacers from the bottom to the top. This might
not look as pretty, but it gives you a lot more flexibility down the road
since once you cut a fork, you can't make it taller (aside from putting on
adapter pieces).

When I bought my Gunnar, I had to specify to the wrench that I wanted my
bars the same height as my saddle. He wanted to cut the steer tube and fit
the bike with a riser stem(if that's the right term). I insisted I wanted
him to use spacers and a straight stem, which gives me more flexibility to
change position. He did it, but kind of begrudgingly. I have 8 spacers and
it's very comfortable. It's a semi compact frame so I have about 1.5
handfuls of seatpost showing also. It looks good, though.

Yep. There ya go. Unless you're standing there tapping your hand with a
baseball bat they seem compelled to want cut off the steering stem and use
a riser stem. <g>

Jeeze, it's less work for them to do it the way we wanted - very tedious to
have to put it in a vice, measure and file it, no? You'd think they got a
bonus for using less spacers, lol.

jj

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 00:16:39 GMT, "Gooserider" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plus, I swear, I'm much more upright on the drop bar roadie on the hoods
and certainly on tops near the stem than the supposed 'upright, relaxed
geometry' hybrid. My hands are closer together on the roadie, but I'm able
to get more stretched out just by bending the arms. I still think I have
some minor adjustment to do since I end up more on the nose of the saddle
than sitting on the back, but I'm hoping the body will adjust as time goes
on. Nothing's painful. Knees, the most important part not to have pain are
perfect, so I'm loathe to change anything.

I have a wide Nitto Noodle Bar on my Gunnar, and I also own a flat bar Ibex
road bike. I use the flat bar bike to run errands and do shopping, so I'm
not on it for really long periods of time. My hands get numb after about 20
minutes on it, and I have to shake them to regain feeling. When my hands get
numb on the Gunnar, I just move to another position.

As I mentioned before, it's not the 'upright position' that I needed when I
realized I needed to get a road bike. It's the 'stretched out position'
that I needed. On the straight bar bike the handle bars seemed too low at
first then too close to me. I kept wanting to take a thumbless grip - then
I realized I needed the bar moved 'forward' and the current straight bar
bike wasn't going to do it for me. When I got on the road bike, my first
feeling was 'ah-h-h, that feels good', wrt the reach, height and position.

It was only later that I realized how the wider hand positions on the
straight bar bike was cambering my wrists to an unnatural degree, and the
wider grip made my torso lean over more (just like wide grip pushups). What
I need to do is get a Nitto bar for the straight bar bike if I can figure
out if the controls and stuff will transfer over without too much trouble.

jj

Quoted message said:

Jeeze, it's less work for them to do it the way we wanted - very tedious
to
have to put it in a vice, measure and file it, no? You'd think they got a
bonus for using less spacers, lol.

No, the only bonus we get is for stealing valve caps. At least that's what
customers seem to think; amazing how many believe we're intentionally trying
to remove them for economic benefit of some sort. Must be a huge black
market somewhere for valve caps, and everyone knows about it but me.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com