Trike gearing

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Wally, Jan 21, 2006.

  1. Wally

    Wally Guest

    What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a single
    cog on the front? I've been wondering if one of the seven or eight speed hub
    gears that are available for around £100 would give enough range for general
    purpose use. (26" rear wheel, no idea how many teeth on the front.)


    --
    Wally
    www.wally.myby.co.uk
    http://iott.melodolic.com
     
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  2. Al C-F

    Al C-F Guest

    Wally wrote:
    > What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a single
    > cog on the front?


    I'm sure Mr Tosspot will be along sometime soon to tell you all about his.

    Googling for anthrotech & schlumpf might turn up some of his posts to
    keep you busy until he appears.
     
  3. Nigel Cliffe

    Nigel Cliffe Guest

    Wally wrote:
    > What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a
    > single cog on the front? I've been wondering if one of the seven or
    > eight speed hub gears that are available for around £100 would give
    > enough range for general purpose use. (26" rear wheel, no idea how
    > many teeth on the front.)


    Really depends on your legs and the hills in your area. For an example, I
    have friends who ride single-speeds alongside me, yet I use most of the 21
    gears on my tourer (~27inch to ~100inch range) when riding with them.

    To work things out for yourself, use Sheldon Brown's gear calculator. Set
    it to "gear inches" because that's what most people in teh UK understand.
    Put in the gearing and wheel size of your current favourite steed. Print the
    results. Then try putting in your proposed hub gear (Sheldon lists most of
    them) for the trike. Print those results. And compare... A few
    gear-inches makes no difference, but if you find you need <27in to go up
    hills and 100in down, you'll probably find that 7 or 8 speed hubs are not
    wide enough range for your needs (solution being either the Schlumf bottom
    bracket gear or the Rohloff rear hub, both considerably more than £100)


    - Nigel


    --
    Nigel Cliffe,
    Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
     
  4. Wally

    Wally Guest

    Nigel Cliffe wrote:
    > Wally wrote:
    >> What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a
    >> single cog on the front? I've been wondering if one of the seven or
    >> eight speed hub gears that are available for around £100 would give
    >> enough range for general purpose use. (26" rear wheel, no idea how
    >> many teeth on the front.)

    >
    > Really depends on your legs and the hills in your area. For an
    > example, I have friends who ride single-speeds alongside me, yet I
    > use most of the 21 gears on my tourer (~27inch to ~100inch range)
    > when riding with them.
    >
    > To work things out for yourself, use Sheldon Brown's gear calculator.
    > Set it to "gear inches" because that's what most people in teh UK
    > understand. Put in the gearing and wheel size of your current
    > favourite steed. Print the results. Then try putting in your
    > proposed hub gear (Sheldon lists most of them) for the trike. Print
    > those results. And compare... A few gear-inches makes no
    > difference, but if you find you need <27in to go up hills and 100in
    > down, you'll probably find that 7 or 8 speed hubs are not wide enough
    > range for your needs (solution being either the Schlumf bottom
    > bracket gear or the Rohloff rear hub, both considerably more than
    > £100)


    Thanks for that - I'll give it a go once I've got the numbers from my one
    and only assembled bike. The hills here vary, but I don't mind coasting down
    them, so maybe I can afford to compromise the long end of the gearing.


    --
    Wally
    www.wally.myby.co.uk
    http://iott.melodolic.com
     
  5. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:23:41 +0000, Wally wrote:

    > What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a
    > single cog on the front? I've been wondering if one of the seven or eight
    > speed hub gears that are available for around £100 would give enough range
    > for general purpose use. (26" rear wheel, no idea how many teeth on the
    > front.)


    Trike? I thought you were building a bike based on Hooves-1?

    Anyway, IMO you need a lower bottom gear and a higher top gear than you
    would on an upright. To do this with a hub gear you either need
    something like the new 8-speed S-A with a range of 6 sensibly spaced
    gears and off-the-wall top and bottom, or your legs will need to cope
    with a very big jump from gear to gear.

    You need a lower bottom gear not because you'll be going slower up the
    hills but because you cannot stomp the pedals and you've got to spin.
    In fact I find my climbing speed a touch higher on my 2-wheel bent than
    on the upright, but this way well be due to the better choice of gears
    (24-ish vs 7). You need a higher top gear because that's the way to get
    the Authentic Recumbent Grin (TM). Coasting down hills doesn't do
    it....



    Mike
     
  6. Wally

    Wally Guest

    Mike Causer wrote:

    > Trike? I thought you were building a bike based on Hooves-1?


    I'm building a bike based on Hooves 1.5, and I'm designing the trike.


    > Anyway, IMO you need a lower bottom gear and a higher top gear than
    > you would on an upright. To do this with a hub gear you either need
    > something like the new 8-speed S-A with a range of 6 sensibly spaced
    > gears and off-the-wall top and bottom, or your legs will need to cope
    > with a very big jump from gear to gear.


    That sounds interesting.


    > You need a lower bottom gear not because you'll be going slower up the
    > hills but because you cannot stomp the pedals and you've got to spin.


    Yup.


    > In fact I find my climbing speed a touch higher on my 2-wheel bent
    > than on the upright, but this way well be due to the better choice of
    > gears (24-ish vs 7). You need a higher top gear because that's the
    > way to get the Authentic Recumbent Grin (TM). Coasting down hills
    > doesn't do it....


    I'll bear that in mind. (The Hooves 1.5 thing was a fortuitous opportunity
    to try out recumbulating - if I like that, the trike may well turn from CAD
    to reality.)


    --
    Wally
    www.wally.myby.co.uk
    http://iott.melodolic.com
     
  7. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:13:45 +0000, Wally wrote:

    > I'm building a bike based on Hooves 1.5, and I'm designing the trike.


    I could have sworn I rode alongside a bike labelled "Hooves 1.5" for some
    miles on Friday in Cambridgeshire. Hmmm, maybe Jon has a production line
    going.



    >> Anyway, IMO you need a lower bottom gear and a higher top gear than you
    >> would on an upright. To do this with a hub gear you either need
    >> something like the new 8-speed S-A with a range of 6 sensibly spaced
    >> gears and off-the-wall top and bottom, or your legs will need to cope
    >> with a very big jump from gear to gear.

    >
    > That sounds interesting.


    Both choices sound dreadful to me. But then I have legs that are very
    picky about rate of rotation. 80 minimum, and 120 absolute max for
    short distances, nowadays (used to do 140, but now it buggers my dodgy
    knee).



    > I'll bear that in mind. (The Hooves 1.5 thing was a fortuitous
    > opportunity to try out recumbulating - if I like that, the trike may
    > well turn from CAD to reality.)


    I tried to look at your CAD pictures, but it's 'Doze only. I might be
    installing Wine so I can get Google Earth, so there's a pobisility I could
    have a look.


    Mike
     
  8. Wally

    Wally Guest

    Mike Causer wrote:

    > I could have sworn I rode alongside a bike labelled "Hooves 1.5" for
    > some miles on Friday in Cambridgeshire. Hmmm, maybe Jon has a
    > production line going.


    Black frame? Wicker basket on the rear carrier?


    >> That sounds interesting.


    > Both choices sound dreadful to me.


    I wouldn't know any better. :)

    I'm just thinking about it as an option - a single front cog and a hub gear
    on the rear would make for a cleaner design with virtually no maintenance
    needs.


    > I tried to look at your CAD pictures, but it's 'Doze only.


    Function of the CAD software. Apparently, they do viewers for non-Windows
    OSs.


    > I might
    > be installing Wine so I can get Google Earth, so there's a pobisility
    > I could have a look.


    Don't know how that would get on with ActiveX controls (I presume the web
    viewer is ActiveX), but the eDrawings viewer would probably run okay.


    --
    Wally
    www.wally.myby.co.uk
    http://iott.melodolic.com
     
  9. Wally wrote:
    > What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a single
    > cog on the front? I've been wondering if one of the seven or eight speed hub
    > gears that are available for around £100 would give enough range for general
    > purpose use. (26" rear wheel, no idea how many teeth on the front.)
    >


    I'd say, if you're fit and don't have to tackle anyhting more than
    rolling hills it's be OK. On the trike at the moment I mostly ride in
    the middle ring and use the 11-32 wide range rear casette to do the work
    which is essentially the same as a hub gear with a ~300% range. Problem
    is that you might come up against a hill that's too steep or you're too
    tired or too heavily loaded to have the right gear for. That's when you
    risk buggering you knees by bench pressing your way up the hill.

    Personally I'd just stick to a triple chainring and MTB casette same as
    everyone else unless you're rich enough for a Speedhub 14 and/or
    Schlumpf Drive

    Alex
     
  10. Tosspot

    Tosspot Guest

    Al C-F wrote:
    > Wally wrote:
    >
    >> What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a
    >> single
    >> cog on the front?

    >
    >
    > I'm sure Mr Tosspot will be along sometime soon to tell you all about his.
    >
    > Googling for anthrotech & schlumpf might turn up some of his posts to
    > keep you busy until he appears.


    Damn! Too late. Well, it is the one true path, if a bit expensive :(

    I'm going to slink off and continue the hunt for a lighting system for
    it that actually works. I may be gone some time.
     
  11. Wally

    Wally Guest

    Tosspot wrote:

    > Damn! Too late. Well, it is the one true path, if a bit expensive :(


    And i had no idea how expensive until I looked at the Ice web site - *four
    grand* for the Eclipse?? I had homed in on that one because it's dimensions
    and wheel configuration are closest to the design I'm developing. I'm sure
    it's all very good quality, but I don't see what it has compared to their
    other models for half the money.


    --
    Wally
    www.wally.myby.co.uk
    http://iott.melodolic.com
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Guest

    Alexander Rice wrote:

    > I'd say, if you're fit ...


    Err...


    > ... and don't have to tackle anyhting more than
    > rolling hills it's be OK.


    They're generally rolling, or long and not too steep. There are a few steep
    bits, so a low gear would be a good thing, I think.


    > Problem is that you might come up against a hill that's too steep or
    > you're too tired or too heavily loaded to have the right gear for.
    > That's when you risk buggering you knees by bench pressing your way
    > up the hill.


    That's a good reason to have a low gear.


    > Personally I'd just stick to a triple chainring and MTB casette same
    > as everyone else unless you're rich enough for a Speedhub 14 and/or
    > Schlumpf Drive


    I'd say around 100 quid is the max for a hub gear. Are they interchangeable
    with normal cassettes?


    --
    Wally
    www.wally.myby.co.uk
    http://iott.melodolic.com
     
  13. Rod King

    Rod King Guest

    Hi

    I used to run on a 28/40/52 with an 11-28 rear cassete with a 26" wheel on
    the rear of my Windcheetah.

    However, for the last year I have changed to a 24/38/48 set of rings and had
    the cranks shortened to 140mms.

    Although I am 6ft the change to 140 mm cranks makes a big difference both up
    hills and on the flat/downhill. I can spin much easier due to the smaller
    diameter of the pedal circle. I can sustain a higher pace on each and the
    reduction in front small chainring goes some way to offset the higher
    gearing moving down from 170 to 140.

    If you want to try this without too much expense then St Jons St cycles do a
    Sugino 24/38/48 chainset with 154mm cranks at aless than £30.

    Best regards

    Rod King


    "Wally" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a

    single
    > cog on the front? I've been wondering if one of the seven or eight speed

    hub
    > gears that are available for around £100 would give enough range for

    general
    > purpose use. (26" rear wheel, no idea how many teeth on the front.)
    >
    >
    > --
    > Wally
    > www.wally.myby.co.uk
    > http://iott.melodolic.com
    >
    >
     
  14. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Wally
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Alexander Rice wrote:
    >
    >> I'd say, if you're fit ...

    >
    > Err...
    >
    >
    >> ... and don't have to tackle anyhting more than
    >> rolling hills it's be OK.

    >
    > They're generally rolling, or long and not too steep. There are a few
    > steep bits, so a low gear would be a good thing, I think.
    >
    >
    >> Problem is that you might come up against a hill that's too steep or
    >> you're too tired or too heavily loaded to have the right gear for.
    >> That's when you risk buggering you knees by bench pressing your way
    >> up the hill.

    >
    > That's a good reason to have a low gear.
    >
    >
    >> Personally I'd just stick to a triple chainring and MTB casette same
    >> as everyone else unless you're rich enough for a Speedhub 14 and/or
    >> Schlumpf Drive

    >
    > I'd say around 100 quid is the max for a hub gear. Are they
    > interchangeable with normal cassettes?


    You might try using a hub gear with a front deraileur. It's not as clean
    as a hub gear on its own, but with a chain line as long as a recumbent
    trike you could start out with just a hub gear, and, if you found it
    wasn't enough, fit a triple chain ring, front derailleur and chain
    tensioner later.

    The other thing you might look at is the SRAM DualDrive system (I believe
    Shimano do something similar) <URL:http://www.sram.com/dualdrive/>

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    The Conservative Party now has the support of a smaller proportion of
    the electorate in Scotland than Sinn Fein have in Northern Ireland.
     
  15. John B

    John B Guest

    Simon Brooke wrote:

    >
    > You might try using a hub gear with a front deraileur. It's not as clean
    > as a hub gear on its own, but with a chain line as long as a recumbent
    > trike you could start out with just a hub gear, and, if you found it
    > wasn't enough, fit a triple chain ring, front derailleur and chain
    > tensioner later.
    >
    > The other thing you might look at is the SRAM DualDrive system (I believe
    > Shimano do something similar) <URL:http://www.sram.com/dualdrive/>


    i have this on my Trice. It is coupled with a 9spd cassette and triple
    giving an ultra low 9" gear.

    And yes, I have used it.
    One can never have too low a gear ;-)

    John B
     
  16. In article <pan.2006.01.21.19.52.53.307918
    @firstnamelastname.com.invalid>, Mike Causer
    ([email protected]) wrote:

    > Anyway, IMO you need a lower bottom gear and a higher top gear than you
    > would on an upright.


    Yes to the low end, but not convinced by the high. I spin out on my
    trike at ~55 km/h and if the hill is promising more speed than that, I'm
    happy to coast. Mine has a range of 13-87" with a 406 drive wheel.

    One day, though, I must properly investigate building a custom
    cassette...

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Murdock's Gardening Law: If it's green, the paving isn't finished yet.
     
  17. bugbear

    bugbear Guest

    Wally wrote:
    > What do folks think of using hub gearing on a recumbent trike, with a single
    > cog on the front? I've been wondering if one of the seven or eight speed hub
    > gears that are available for around £100 would give enough range for general
    > purpose use. (26" rear wheel, no idea how many teeth on the front.)


    Hm. Speaking out of ignorance I'd expect a recumbent trike
    to be (really)slow up hills and (really)quick downhills
    leading to a wide ratio requirment on the gearing.

    Rather like a tandem.

    BugBear
     
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