TRIMPS - what exactly is the weighting factor?

[normZurawski]

So bringing this back...

Is the idea in any - say 4 week - cycle to have your TSS increase for 3 weeks, then tail off the 4th week? Are there rough guidelines for how to use TSS? Is this a question for the power forum?

I made some rough guesses of my TSS numbers over the last 4 weeks and they probably show the wrong trend, overall. When I estimate my 2x20 days I get something like 84, which is pathetic in the Coggan system of 150 or less being a generally light workout which you can recover by the next day.

I see greater than 450 in there, which boggles my mind. My biggest number estimate for the last 7 weeks was 204 for any single workout. Should I be afraid that when people drive by me and see my low TSS numbers under my shirt they'll think I'm gay?

 

[SolarEnergy]

So bringing this back...

Is the idea in any - say 4 week - cycle to have your TSS increase for 3 weeks, then tail off the 4th week? Are there rough guidelines for how to use TSS? Is this a question for the power forum?

Welcome to the power club. Mesocycle planning using TSS, or rolling TSS avg, or Performance Manager Charts, is a concept that is still in its early stage in my opinion.

By the few posts you've made so far on this forum, I can tell that your contribution to this concept will be appreciated.

Your guess is pretty good actually. Increasing TSS for 3 weeks and then using the 4th week to get rid of some ATL, I see nothing wrong with that.

When I estimate my 2x20 days I get something like 84, which is pathetic in the Coggan system of 150 or less being a generally light workout which you can recover by the next day.

But how does 84 compares to your CTL? If 84 is more than your CTL then this value can't hurt CTL's progression. Or else I guess that one could pad the 2x20 workout with some longish endurance work done after the 2 intervals.

Should I be afraid that when people drive by me and see my low TSS numbers under my shirt they'll think I'm gay?

They will probably be higher than my 60tss/d anyway

Being able to acheive good results out of the fewer possible number of TSS isn't something to be ashame of.

 

[normZurawski]

Welcome to the power club. Mesocycle planning using TSS, or rolling TSS avg, or Performance Manager Charts, is a concept that is still in its early stage in my opinion.

Well that's sort of the thing. I don't have a PM yet. I'm holding out for the MicroSport which will hopefully be available next spring. So in attempting to find a metric (TRIMPS) I saw that there was a big crossover between that and TSS. And then I saw that TSS can probably be reasonably estimated. EVen if I'm off, it's probably consistent, which is the more important thing for my purpose. For now.

By the few posts you've made so far on this forum, I can tell that your contribution to this concept will be appreciated.

Well, let's hope so. But I have a lot of room to cover and much of it is what frenchyge has already been through. I find in going through the archives that he has already asked a lot of the questions I have.

But how does 84 compares to your CTL? If 84 is more than your CTL then this value can't hurt CTL's progression. Or else I guess that one could pad the 2x20 workout with some longish endurance work done after the 2 intervals.

Well I went and used a homemade tstwkt spreadsheet on the power forum and put in my TSS estimates for the last (roughly) 3 months and it turns out that 84 helps plenty. Having said that, my CTL is probably far too low for it being the end of the season. Having said that, this year turned out to be exactly what I hoped - a veyr big learning experience. I'd hate to be having these realizations in the middle of next season.

They will probably be higher than my 60tss/d anyway

Well, my CTL is lower than that. TSS/d slightly higher but not really by much right now. I'm wondering if I played my last few weeks incorrectly. I have a fairly brutal 50k off-road ride this weekend which I've tried to focus on. Not racing it per se, since I haven't been able to put in the hours necessary.

Being able to acheive good results out of the fewer possible number of TSS isn't something to be ashame of.

Well, we'll see about the "good results" part of it!

 

[frenchyge]

Is the idea in any - say 4 week - cycle to have your TSS increase for 3 weeks, then tail off the 4th week? Are there rough guidelines for how to use TSS? Is this a question for the power forum?

Yes, you'll probably get more input in the power forum. As Solar mentioned, there are different approaches regarding the training buildup profile, and there's not really a clearly 'best' choice. Some people use the 4th week as rest to prevent overtraining, which is fine as a precaution when you're training blind, but unnecessary if you're using TSS to manage your overall training load within a consistently tolerable level. Others, like Solar, advocate using the 3 weeks to intentionally overload on training, and the 4th week for recovery and supercompensation. Personally, my training schedule is vulnerable to outside events, which never seem to fall during my planned rest week, so I choose a steady training load and know that unexpected rest periods will impose themselves on my schedule anyway. I don't use 4-wk mesocycles.

How to use TSS? Primarily, it's a tool to quantify overall training 'load' (as opposed to 'effect'). It measures the stress that the body is being subjected to, and is a good way to assess whether enough training is being done for optimal performance, or if too much is being done. It's helpful to monitor load separately from intensity, and the separate buildup of each is what many coaching programs suggest.

I made some rough guesses of my TSS numbers over the last 4 weeks and they probably show the wrong trend, overall. When I estimate my 2x20 days I get something like 84, which is pathetic in the Coggan system of 150 or less being a generally light workout which you can recover by the next day.

One of the first things that most people learn when they start using TSS is that they're just not training *enough* for optimal performance. Conventional wisdom would suggest that a threshold intensity workout (like yours, above) be followed by a rest day, or at least a hard day - easy day routine to allow sufficient recovery. OTOH, the TSS value of that ride suggests that 1 day's recovery is sufficient for that workout. By quantifying the training load, you don't have to take an overly conservative approach, because it's possible to experiment with different values to find out exactly what TSS can be tolerated on a day-in-day-out basis.

I see greater than 450 in there, which boggles my mind. My biggest number estimate for the last 7 weeks was 204 for any single workout. Should I be afraid that when people drive by me and see my low TSS numbers under my shirt they'll think I'm gay?

LOL. I've never done a 450 TSS ride. Andy probably only put that in there for Dave Harris' benefit. The daily values you strive for depend on how often you ride. For someone who likes to ride every day, there's really no reason to go above ~150 on any ride. OTOH, if someone's limited to 3 rides per week, then they'd want to pack a lot more into those rides to get the most benefit. Again, TSS lets you manage your training load in constructive ways. Last winter I rode 5 days/wk. I tried for ~125 TSS on Tu/W/Th, and ~200 on Sat/Sun. Mon & Fri were days off.

 

[normZurawski]

Thanks for the input frenchyge. I've been keeping my eye on the power forum now so I'll get more involved as time goes on. For now it's an exploratory experience for me. I went back and looked at a few of my better rides and found that the TSB was high for 2 and low for another. Another time when I remember having a rough ride corresponded to a high TSB but was at the very end of a 3 week block. Plenty to work out.

It should also be noted I categorically did not follow any formal training program this year. So it's not surprising that I have a low CTL and random results across the board.

One of the first things that most people learn when they start using TSS is that they're just not training *enough* for optimal performance. Conventional wisdom would suggest that a threshold intensity workout (like yours, above) be followed by a rest day, or at least a hard day - easy day routine to allow sufficient recovery. OTOH, the TSS value of that ride suggests that 1 day's recovery is sufficient for that workout.

It certainly sheds light on the overall picture, especially the part about not training enough. Now that I look at it, my CTL has been falling since 9/17. So this weekend will be a lesson learned one way or the other.

Andy probably only put that in there for Dave Harris' benefit.

No kidding! Of course, there's a reason he's now being talked about with the likes of Tinker, and such.

Last winter I rode 5 days/wk. I tried for ~125 TSS on Tu/W/Th, and ~200 on Sat/Sun. Mon & Fri were days off.

Just curious, what kind of hours does it take to get to those kinds of numbers? The 200s on weekends seem to work with the way I ride. But the weekdays are harder to come by. I guess that means I need to ramp up the intensity on weekends, but I thought those 2x20s were tough enough. Of course, until I actually get a PM it's a lot of guesswork.