True wheels

[Dan Sheppard]

Hi

I've just bought a heavily discounted Minoura wheel truing
jig so I can keep my wheels in top notch condition. This
isn't something I have any experience of using but have
found some very helpful websites (e.g. Sheldon Brown) and
think I'm ready to have a go at some wheel truing. However,
I'm also considering fixing up one of the stock wheels
(partly to learn how, partly to have a spare) that
originally came with my Trek 4500. This wheel (Alloy F,
Shimano C201 R hub; Matrix 750 rim - yes, I know its not
very good!) has a broken spoke which I need to replace.

Its possible that I'm being incredibly stupid, but I can't
figure out what size replacement spoke I need. End to end it
measures anout 265mm - is this a standard size? What about
the width? Will a new one fit the old nipple? Am I best
replacing all the spokes? Are all the spokes on a wheel the
same length? Can anyone recommend somewhere to buy spokes
from (in the UK)?

Sorry if I come over like an idiot but I new to all this and
keen to learn.

Dan

 

[D T W .../\\...]

"Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi
>
> I've just bought a heavily discounted Minoura wheel truing
> jig so I can
keep
> my wheels in top notch condition. This isn't something I
> have any
experience
> of using but have found some very helpful websites (e.g.
> Sheldon Brown)
and
> think I'm ready to have a go at some wheel truing.
> However, I'm also considering fixing up one of the stock
> wheels (partly to learn how, partly to have a spare) that
> originally came with my Trek 4500. This wheel (Alloy F,
> Shimano C201 R hub; Matrix 750 rim - yes, I know its not
> very good!)
has
> a broken spoke which I need to replace.
>
> Its possible that I'm being incredibly stupid, but I can't
> figure out what size replacement spoke I need. End to end
> it measures anout 265mm - is
this
> a standard size? What about the width? Will a new one fit
> the old nipple?
Am
> I best replacing all the spokes? Are all the spokes on a
> wheel the same length? Can anyone recommend somewhere to
> buy spokes from (in the UK)?
>
> Sorry if I come over like an idiot but I new to all this
> and keen to
learn.
>
> Dan
>

http://www.parktool.com/tools/SBC_1.shtml

End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a
standard size? Yes

What about the width?
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes

Will a new one fit the old nipple? Yes, but get a new one.

Am I best replacing all the spokes? Not necessary, but it
would be a good learning experiance.

Are all the spokes on a wheel the same length? - not on
the rear. The front depends on if its a disk (no) or rim
(yes) brake.

All of your questions are answered on Sheldons site. It
takes a while to absorb it all. Get some, tools, spokes,
nipples and dig in.

The vendor you buy from can confirm what size spokes and
nips you should be using.

--
DTW .../\.../\.../\...

I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
The rest I've just wasted.

 

[Bill Wheeler]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:03:58 GMT, "Dan Sheppard"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I've just bought a heavily discounted Minoura wheel truing
>jig so I can keep my wheels in top notch condition. This
>isn't something I have any experience of using but have
>found some very helpful websites (e.g. Sheldon Brown) and
>think I'm ready to have a go at some wheel truing. However,
>I'm also considering fixing up one of the stock wheels
>(partly to learn how, partly to have a spare) that
>originally came with my Trek 4500. This wheel (Alloy F,
>Shimano C201 R hub; Matrix 750 rim - yes, I know its not
>very good!) has a broken spoke which I need to replace.
>
>Its possible that I'm being incredibly stupid, but I can't
>figure out what size replacement spoke I need. End to end
>it measures anout 265mm - is this a standard size? What
>about the width? Will a new one fit the old nipple? Am I
>best replacing all the spokes? Are all the spokes on a
>wheel the same length? Can anyone recommend somewhere to
>buy spokes from (in the UK)?
>
>Sorry if I come over like an idiot but I new to all this
>and keen to learn.
>
>Dan
>
Dan, none of these are stupid questions....live and learn.

There is no "standard" spoke length. The spoke length must
be matched to the specific hub and hoop (rim). There is a
link on Sheldon's site to something called "spoke calc". I'd
give you the link but then you wouldn't read Sheldon's site.
Please go back and check it out.

Spoke width is explained there also in pretty good detail.

Don't forget Sheldon is only one source there are many
others. Do a search for "Wheel Building"

With that said after you've read up on this, pay your LBS a
visit and tell them what you're trying to do. They'll gladly
help you learn this stuff.

I predict in a year or less you'll be building your own
wheels. There's not much besides riding that is more
satisfying.

Peace, Bill

The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a
reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate view
instead of an interpretation of the world.
:-]

 

[Bill Wheeler]

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:13:52 GMT, "D T W .../\\..."
<[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

>End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a standard
>size? Yes

I must respectfully disagree with you on this point. Your
spokes need to be matched to the hub and the hoop. Even for
his particular hub/hoop combo depending on wheel building
techniques one may use a longer or shorter spoke. So I
really must again respectfully disagree with your "Yes"
answer to the standard size question.

[snip rest]

Peace, Bill

The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a
reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate view
instead of an interpretation of the world.
:-]

 

[Back At Home Ph]

> I predict in a year or less you'll be building your own
> wheels. There's not much besides riding that is more
> satisfying.

Yep, there sure is... it's called having multiple gears

Phil, bustin' ya

 

[Dan Sheppard]

"D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]>
> wrote in message news:9ecb278283200a15fe84073018f70688@ne-
> ws.teranews.com...

[Snip]

> http://www.parktool.com/tools/SBC_1.shtml

That looks like a very useful tool. I might invest in one.

> End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a standard
> size? Yes

Okay, so from what you and other people are saying, this is
one of a number of standard sizes.

> What about the width?
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes

My best guess (this is using a steel ruler you understand)
is 2mm which seems to be 14 gauge.

> Will a new one fit the old nipple? Yes, but get a new one.

Okay - as a matter of interest why is that?

> Am I best replacing all the spokes? Not necessary, but it
> would be a
good
> learning experiance.

Sure - again as a matter of interest, if one spoke has
failed might this suggest failure among others is likely?
(It failed at the hub end, just wear it bends over, on the
drive side of the rear wheel.)

> Are all the spokes on a wheel the same length? - not on
> the rear. The front depends on if its a disk (no) or rim
> (yes) brake.

Ah, hence the spoke length calculators. I can't find my rim
or hub dimensions on any of the online calculators so I
guess I need to start measuring. Any tips for the best way
to do this? Will I need to take the wheel apart to measure
up the hub?

> All of your questions are answered on Sheldons site. It
> takes a while to absorb it all. Get some, tools, spokes,
> nipples and dig in.
>
> The vendor you buy from can confirm what size spokes
> and nips you
should
> be using.

Are spokes and nipples things which are commonly sold at
bike shops? My LBS looked at me like I was mad when I asked
and told me I should just buy a stock wheel or have one
built up for me. I can see the point they are making but my
aim is to improve my skill level and become pretty
independent in the longer term.

All the best and thanks for your help,

Dan

 

[Dan Sheppard]

"Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:03:58 GMT, "Dan Sheppard"
> <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dan, none of these are stupid questions....live and learn.
>
> There is no "standard" spoke length. The spoke length must
> be matched to the specific hub and hoop (rim). There is a
> link on Sheldon's site to something called "spoke calc".
> I'd give you the link but then you wouldn't read Sheldon's
> site. Please go back and check it out.

Okay, from those spoke calculators I get the impression I
need some pretty accurate measurements for my hub and rim. I
currently own a steel ruler (for measuring chain "stretch")
and thats it. Do you think I need to go shopping for some
callipers or something?

> Spoke width is explained there also in pretty good detail.

I think I've figured that part out - my spokes seem to be
2mm (14 gauge).

> I predict in a year or less you'll be building your own
> wheels. There's not much besides riding that is more
> satisfying.

Well my approach is that I may only be able to afford a Trek
4500 but at least it can be the best maintained Trek 4500.

Thanks for your help, all the best,

Dan

 

[D T W .../\\...]

"Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]>
> > wrote in message news:9ecb278283200a15fe84073018f70688@-
> > news.teranews.com...
>
> [Snip]
>
> > http://www.parktool.com/tools/SBC_1.shtml
>
> That looks like a very useful tool. I might invest in one.
>
> > End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a standard
> > size? Yes
>
> Okay, so from what you and other people are saying, this
> is one of a
number
> of standard sizes.
>
> > What about the width?
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes
>
> My best guess (this is using a steel ruler you understand)
> is 2mm which seems to be 14 gauge.
>
> > Will a new one fit the old nipple? Yes, but get a
> > new one.
>
> Okay - as a matter of interest why is that?
>
> > Am I best replacing all the spokes? Not necessary, but
> > it would be a
> good
> > learning experiance.
>
> Sure - again as a matter of interest, if one spoke has
> failed might this suggest failure among others is likely?
> (It failed at the hub end, just
wear
> it bends over, on the drive side of the rear wheel.)
>
> > Are all the spokes on a wheel the same length? - not on
> > the rear. The front depends on if its a disk (no) or rim
> > (yes) brake.
>
> Ah, hence the spoke length calculators. I can't find my
> rim or hub dimensions on any of the online calculators so
> I guess I need to start measuring. Any tips for the best
> way to do this? Will I need to take the wheel apart to
> measure up the hub?
>
> > All of your questions are answered on Sheldons site. It
> > takes a while
to
> > absorb it all. Get some, tools, spokes, nipples and
> > dig in.
> >
> > The vendor you buy from can confirm what size spokes
> > and nips you
> should
> > be using.
>
> Are spokes and nipples things which are commonly sold at
> bike shops? My
LBS
> looked at me like I was mad when I asked and told me I
> should just buy a stock wheel or have one built up for me.
> I can see the point they are
making
> but my aim is to improve my skill level and become pretty
> independent in
the
> longer term.
>
> All the best and thanks for your help,
>
> Dan
>

The nipples square corners are easily rounded off. A new one
will cost < $.15 cents US. I buy them from website vendors.

Is this a front or rear wheel, rim brakes?

--
DTW .../\.../\.../\...

I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
The rest I've just wasted.

 

[Dan Sheppard]

"D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> The nipples square corners are easily rounded off. A new
> one will cost
<
> $.15 cents US. I buy them from website vendors.
>
> Is this a front or rear wheel, rim brakes

Rear wheel with V brakes.

Dan

 

[D T W .../\\...]

"Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > The nipples square corners are easily rounded off. A new
> > one will cost
> <
> > $.15 cents US. I buy them from website vendors.
> >
> > Is this a front or rear wheel, rim brakes
>
> Rear wheel with V brakes.
>
> Dan
>

If you look down from the top of the wheel to the hub,
you'll see that the right, drive side spokes are at a
different angle into the hub. These spokes are probably
about 1mm shorter than the other side. You said your broken
spoke measured 265mm, They are measured from the threaded
end, back to the inside of the bend.

--
DTW .../\.../\.../\...

I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
The rest I've just wasted.