True wheels

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Dan Sheppard, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Dan Sheppard

    Dan Sheppard Guest

    Hi

    I've just bought a heavily discounted Minoura wheel truing
    jig so I can keep my wheels in top notch condition. This
    isn't something I have any experience of using but have
    found some very helpful websites (e.g. Sheldon Brown) and
    think I'm ready to have a go at some wheel truing. However,
    I'm also considering fixing up one of the stock wheels
    (partly to learn how, partly to have a spare) that
    originally came with my Trek 4500. This wheel (Alloy F,
    Shimano C201 R hub; Matrix 750 rim - yes, I know its not
    very good!) has a broken spoke which I need to replace.

    Its possible that I'm being incredibly stupid, but I can't
    figure out what size replacement spoke I need. End to end it
    measures anout 265mm - is this a standard size? What about
    the width? Will a new one fit the old nipple? Am I best
    replacing all the spokes? Are all the spokes on a wheel the
    same length? Can anyone recommend somewhere to buy spokes
    from (in the UK)?

    Sorry if I come over like an idiot but I new to all this and
    keen to learn.

    Dan
     
    Tags:


  2. "Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi
    >
    > I've just bought a heavily discounted Minoura wheel truing
    > jig so I can
    keep
    > my wheels in top notch condition. This isn't something I
    > have any
    experience
    > of using but have found some very helpful websites (e.g.
    > Sheldon Brown)
    and
    > think I'm ready to have a go at some wheel truing.
    > However, I'm also considering fixing up one of the stock
    > wheels (partly to learn how, partly to have a spare) that
    > originally came with my Trek 4500. This wheel (Alloy F,
    > Shimano C201 R hub; Matrix 750 rim - yes, I know its not
    > very good!)
    has
    > a broken spoke which I need to replace.
    >
    > Its possible that I'm being incredibly stupid, but I can't
    > figure out what size replacement spoke I need. End to end
    > it measures anout 265mm - is
    this
    > a standard size? What about the width? Will a new one fit
    > the old nipple?
    Am
    > I best replacing all the spokes? Are all the spokes on a
    > wheel the same length? Can anyone recommend somewhere to
    > buy spokes from (in the UK)?
    >
    > Sorry if I come over like an idiot but I new to all this
    > and keen to
    learn.
    >
    > Dan
    >

    http://www.parktool.com/tools/SBC_1.shtml

    End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a
    standard size? Yes

    What about the width?
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes

    Will a new one fit the old nipple? Yes, but get a new one.

    Am I best replacing all the spokes? Not necessary, but it
    would be a good learning experiance.

    Are all the spokes on a wheel the same length? - not on
    the rear. The front depends on if its a disk (no) or rim
    (yes) brake.

    All of your questions are answered on Sheldons site. It
    takes a while to absorb it all. Get some, tools, spokes,
    nipples and dig in.

    The vendor you buy from can confirm what size spokes and
    nips you should be using.

    --
    DTW .../\.../\.../\...

    I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
    The rest I've just wasted.
     
  3. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:03:58 GMT, "Dan Sheppard"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi
    >
    >I've just bought a heavily discounted Minoura wheel truing
    >jig so I can keep my wheels in top notch condition. This
    >isn't something I have any experience of using but have
    >found some very helpful websites (e.g. Sheldon Brown) and
    >think I'm ready to have a go at some wheel truing. However,
    >I'm also considering fixing up one of the stock wheels
    >(partly to learn how, partly to have a spare) that
    >originally came with my Trek 4500. This wheel (Alloy F,
    >Shimano C201 R hub; Matrix 750 rim - yes, I know its not
    >very good!) has a broken spoke which I need to replace.
    >
    >Its possible that I'm being incredibly stupid, but I can't
    >figure out what size replacement spoke I need. End to end
    >it measures anout 265mm - is this a standard size? What
    >about the width? Will a new one fit the old nipple? Am I
    >best replacing all the spokes? Are all the spokes on a
    >wheel the same length? Can anyone recommend somewhere to
    >buy spokes from (in the UK)?
    >
    >Sorry if I come over like an idiot but I new to all this
    >and keen to learn.
    >
    >Dan
    >
    Dan, none of these are stupid questions....live and learn.

    There is no "standard" spoke length. The spoke length must
    be matched to the specific hub and hoop (rim). There is a
    link on Sheldon's site to something called "spoke calc". I'd
    give you the link but then you wouldn't read Sheldon's site.
    Please go back and check it out.

    Spoke width is explained there also in pretty good detail.

    Don't forget Sheldon is only one source there are many
    others. Do a search for "Wheel Building"

    With that said after you've read up on this, pay your LBS a
    visit and tell them what you're trying to do. They'll gladly
    help you learn this stuff.

    I predict in a year or less you'll be building your own
    wheels. There's not much besides riding that is more
    satisfying.

    Peace, Bill

    The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a
    reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate view
    instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
  4. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:13:52 GMT, "D T W .../\\..."
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    [snip]

    >End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a standard
    >size? Yes

    I must respectfully disagree with you on this point. Your
    spokes need to be matched to the hub and the hoop. Even for
    his particular hub/hoop combo depending on wheel building
    techniques one may use a longer or shorter spoke. So I
    really must again respectfully disagree with your "Yes"
    answer to the standard size question.

    [snip rest]

    Peace, Bill

    The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a
    reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate view
    instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
  5. > I predict in a year or less you'll be building your own
    > wheels. There's not much besides riding that is more
    > satisfying.

    Yep, there sure is... it's called having multiple gears :p

    Phil, bustin' ya
     
  6. Dan Sheppard

    Dan Sheppard Guest

    "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]>
    > wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > ws.teranews.com...

    [Snip]

    > http://www.parktool.com/tools/SBC_1.shtml

    That looks like a very useful tool. I might invest in one.

    > End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a standard
    > size? Yes

    Okay, so from what you and other people are saying, this is
    one of a number of standard sizes.

    > What about the width?
    > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes

    My best guess (this is using a steel ruler you understand)
    is 2mm which seems to be 14 gauge.

    > Will a new one fit the old nipple? Yes, but get a new one.

    Okay - as a matter of interest why is that?

    > Am I best replacing all the spokes? Not necessary, but it
    > would be a
    good
    > learning experiance.

    Sure - again as a matter of interest, if one spoke has
    failed might this suggest failure among others is likely?
    (It failed at the hub end, just wear it bends over, on the
    drive side of the rear wheel.)

    > Are all the spokes on a wheel the same length? - not on
    > the rear. The front depends on if its a disk (no) or rim
    > (yes) brake.

    Ah, hence the spoke length calculators. I can't find my rim
    or hub dimensions on any of the online calculators so I
    guess I need to start measuring. Any tips for the best way
    to do this? Will I need to take the wheel apart to measure
    up the hub?

    > All of your questions are answered on Sheldons site. It
    > takes a while to absorb it all. Get some, tools, spokes,
    > nipples and dig in.
    >
    > The vendor you buy from can confirm what size spokes
    > and nips you
    should
    > be using.

    Are spokes and nipples things which are commonly sold at
    bike shops? My LBS looked at me like I was mad when I asked
    and told me I should just buy a stock wheel or have one
    built up for me. I can see the point they are making but my
    aim is to improve my skill level and become pretty
    independent in the longer term.

    All the best and thanks for your help,

    Dan
     
  7. Dan Sheppard

    Dan Sheppard Guest

    "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:03:58 GMT, "Dan Sheppard"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Dan, none of these are stupid questions....live and learn.
    >
    > There is no "standard" spoke length. The spoke length must
    > be matched to the specific hub and hoop (rim). There is a
    > link on Sheldon's site to something called "spoke calc".
    > I'd give you the link but then you wouldn't read Sheldon's
    > site. Please go back and check it out.

    Okay, from those spoke calculators I get the impression I
    need some pretty accurate measurements for my hub and rim. I
    currently own a steel ruler (for measuring chain "stretch")
    and thats it. Do you think I need to go shopping for some
    callipers or something?

    > Spoke width is explained there also in pretty good detail.

    I think I've figured that part out - my spokes seem to be
    2mm (14 gauge).

    > I predict in a year or less you'll be building your own
    > wheels. There's not much besides riding that is more
    > satisfying.

    Well my approach is that I may only be able to afford a Trek
    4500 but at least it can be the best maintained Trek 4500.

    Thanks for your help, all the best,

    Dan
     
  8. "Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]>
    > > wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > > news.teranews.com...
    >
    > [Snip]
    >
    > > http://www.parktool.com/tools/SBC_1.shtml
    >
    > That looks like a very useful tool. I might invest in one.
    >
    > > End to end it measures about 265mm - is this a standard
    > > size? Yes
    >
    > Okay, so from what you and other people are saying, this
    > is one of a
    number
    > of standard sizes.
    >
    > > What about the width?
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes
    >
    > My best guess (this is using a steel ruler you understand)
    > is 2mm which seems to be 14 gauge.
    >
    > > Will a new one fit the old nipple? Yes, but get a
    > > new one.
    >
    > Okay - as a matter of interest why is that?
    >
    > > Am I best replacing all the spokes? Not necessary, but
    > > it would be a
    > good
    > > learning experiance.
    >
    > Sure - again as a matter of interest, if one spoke has
    > failed might this suggest failure among others is likely?
    > (It failed at the hub end, just
    wear
    > it bends over, on the drive side of the rear wheel.)
    >
    > > Are all the spokes on a wheel the same length? - not on
    > > the rear. The front depends on if its a disk (no) or rim
    > > (yes) brake.
    >
    > Ah, hence the spoke length calculators. I can't find my
    > rim or hub dimensions on any of the online calculators so
    > I guess I need to start measuring. Any tips for the best
    > way to do this? Will I need to take the wheel apart to
    > measure up the hub?
    >
    > > All of your questions are answered on Sheldons site. It
    > > takes a while
    to
    > > absorb it all. Get some, tools, spokes, nipples and
    > > dig in.
    > >
    > > The vendor you buy from can confirm what size spokes
    > > and nips you
    > should
    > > be using.
    >
    > Are spokes and nipples things which are commonly sold at
    > bike shops? My
    LBS
    > looked at me like I was mad when I asked and told me I
    > should just buy a stock wheel or have one built up for me.
    > I can see the point they are
    making
    > but my aim is to improve my skill level and become pretty
    > independent in
    the
    > longer term.
    >
    > All the best and thanks for your help,
    >
    > Dan
    >

    The nipples square corners are easily rounded off. A new one
    will cost < $.15 cents US. I buy them from website vendors.

    Is this a front or rear wheel, rim brakes?

    --
    DTW .../\.../\.../\...

    I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
    The rest I've just wasted.
     
  9. Dan Sheppard

    Dan Sheppard Guest

    "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > The nipples square corners are easily rounded off. A new
    > one will cost
    <
    > $.15 cents US. I buy them from website vendors.
    >
    > Is this a front or rear wheel, rim brakes

    Rear wheel with V brakes.

    Dan
     
  10. "Dan Sheppard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > The nipples square corners are easily rounded off. A new
    > > one will cost
    > <
    > > $.15 cents US. I buy them from website vendors.
    > >
    > > Is this a front or rear wheel, rim brakes
    >
    > Rear wheel with V brakes.
    >
    > Dan
    >

    If you look down from the top of the wheel to the hub,
    you'll see that the right, drive side spokes are at a
    different angle into the hub. These spokes are probably
    about 1mm shorter than the other side. You said your broken
    spoke measured 265mm, They are measured from the threaded
    end, back to the inside of the bend.

    --
    DTW .../\.../\.../\...

    I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
    The rest I've just wasted.
     
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