Truthful "average" speeds

Robert Siegel · Jun 1, 2003

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FYI: Here's another ride notice for Roadies from the Gainesville = Cycling Club. This suggests what
realistic, honest "average" speeds = actually look like. Vicki is a serious road bike rider who
frequently = leads her fellow Roadies over moderate hill routes in the horse country = surrounding
this North Central Florida city. Gator Bob Siegel

*******

From: "Vicki" To: "GCC"=20 Subject: GCCMail: Tues/Thurs AM ride Date: Sunday, June 01, 2003 4:39 PM

We've now added to a route to focus on hills to vary the rides. Avg speeds have still been in the
20-21+ range so those of you looking for a time effective hill workout, come join in! =20

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML
6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial Black">FYI: Here's = another ride notice=20 for
Roadies from the Gainesville Cycling Club. This suggests what=20 realistic, honest
"average" speeds actually look like. Vicki=20 is a serious road bike
rider who frequently leads her=20 fellow Roadies over moderate hill routes in
the = horse country=20 surrounding this North Central Florida =
city.</FONT></STRONG></DIV><STRONG><FONT=20 face=3D"Arial Black">
<DV>Gator Bob Siegel</DIV>
<DVI> </DIV>
<DVII><FONT face=3D"Arial Black">*******</FONT></DIV>
<DVIII><BR>From: "Vicki" To: "GCC" </DIV>
<DIX>Subject: GCCMail: Tues/Thurs AM ride<BR>Date: Sunday, June 01, 2003 =
4:39=20 PM</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Black"></FONT> </DIV>
<DV>We've now added to a route to focus on hills to vary the rides.=20 Avg<BR>speeds have still
been in the 20-21+ range so those of you = looking for=20 a<BR>time effective hill workout,
come join=20 in! <BR></DIV></FONT></STRONG></BODY></HTML>

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Cletus D . Lee · Jun 1, 2003

Bob, I fail to see anything to support a claim that these are "what realistic, honest "average"
speeds actually look like".

Are these as honest as a Florida hill? Florida hills IIRC are about on par with Texas Gulf
Coast Hills.

In article <[email protected] news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
[email protected] says...
> FYI: Here's another ride notice for Roadies from the Gainesville Cycling Club. This suggests what
> realistic, honest "average" speeds actually look like. Vicki is a serious road bike rider who
> frequently leads her fellow Roadies over moderate hill routes in the horse country surrounding
> this North Central Florida city. Gator Bob Siegel
>
> *******
>
> From: "Vicki" To: "GCC" Subject: GCCMail: Tues/Thurs AM ride Date: Sunday, June 01, 2003 4:39 PM
>
> We've now added to a route to focus on hills to vary the rides. Avg speeds have still been in the
> 20-21+ range so those of you looking for a time effective hill workout, come join in!
>

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Edward Wong · Jun 1, 2003

Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Bob, I fail to see anything to support a claim that these are "what realistic, honest "average"
> speeds actually look like".
>
> Are these as honest as a Florida hill? Florida hills IIRC are about on par with Texas Gulf
> Coast Hills.

Though not in the immediate area that Bob rides, you're quite welcome to try some of the hills in
Lake County. This changes any preconcieved ideas that Florida has no serious hills

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

A&B · Jun 1, 2003

Robert, There are "average" people faster than you, and there are people who exaggerate their
averages. So? bill, denominators rule!, g

> Robert Siegel wrote:
>
> FYI: Here's another ride notice for Roadies from the Gainesville Cycling Club. This suggests what
> realistic, honest "average" speeds actually look like. Vicki is a serious road bike rider who
> frequently leads her fellow Roadies over moderate hill routes in the horse country surrounding
> this North Central Florida city. Gator Bob Siegel
>
> *******
>
> From: "Vicki" To: "GCC" Subject: GCCMail: Tues/Thurs AM ride Date: Sunday, June 01, 2003 4:39 PM
>
> We've now added to a route to focus on hills to vary the rides. Avg speeds have still been in the
> 20-21+ range so those of you looking for a time effective hill workout, come join in!

Brian Hughes · Jun 1, 2003

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Well I don't live in Florida (but I've been there many times though), = but given the highest
elevation in the whole state of Florida is 345 = feet, how effective is a hill workout there?

Brian V-Rex & Tailwind // 5664 ft elevation We've now added to a route to focus on hills to vary the
rides. Avg speeds have still been in the 20-21+ range so those of you looking for = a time effective
hill workout, come join in! ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C32883.A4000F40 Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML
6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<DV>Well I don't live in Florida (but I've been there many times = though), but=20 given the
highest elevation in the whole state of Florida is 345 feet, = how=20 effective is a hill
workout there?</DIV>
<DVI> </DIV>
<DVII>Brian</DIV>
<DVIII>V-Rex & Tailwind // 5664 ft = elevation</DIV></FONT><STRONG><FONT=20 face=3D"Arial
Black"><FONT face=3D"Arial Black"></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIX>We've now added to a route to focus on hills to vary the rides.=20 Avg<BR>speeds have still
been in the 20-21+ range so those of you = looking for=20 a<BR>time effective hill workout,
come join=20 in! </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></STRONG></BODY></HTML>

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Scott · Jun 1, 2003

Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Bob, I fail to see anything to support a claim that these are "what realistic, honest "average"
> speeds actually look like".
>
> Are these as honest as a Florida hill? Florida hills IIRC are about on par with Texas Gulf
> Coast Hills.
>

Yeah, isn't the HIGHEST point in Florida under 300 feet high? Here in the southern Sierra's of
California, we've got grades that go for 3,000 ft. and more. Now them's hills! :0)

Scott

dboring · Jun 1, 2003

Hey people,

I am 53 yrs old, never an athelete and smoked for 15 yrs. and smoked other green stuff for about
that long too. Oh, I also have a broken right hip with 3 titanium pins in it about 4 or 5 inches
long x about 3/16 inch diameter. And sometimes it hurts like a son of a b*tch.

And I ride in killer Los Angeles Suburbs SMOG rated all this week as UNHEALTHY for Sensitive People.
I rode 135 miles this week. 85 miles in one day. Averaged 12.5 mph if you take out the time I spent
for pee breaks and water and lunch. I sometimes ride at 35+ mph down hills and sometimes about 6 mph
up hills, and the average is about 12.5 mph. That's it!

I wish I could ride at an average of 20+ mph but it aint gonna happen. Basicly, I can't afford to
give a sh*t. I don't ride with clubs. I ride alone in the the heat of the day and rarely run into
ANY other bikers. I enjoy myself immensely. And if I can ride 85 miles in one day, that makes me
feel good. So, more power to all you speedo types, but I am still gonna be out there diggn it
whether you are there or not.

Basicly, I had to opt out of the 'game.' And I feel a lot better for doing it. You are only racing
against own best time anyway.

DB Glendora, CA. USA

John Turner · Jun 2, 2003

brian hughes wrote:

> Well I don't live in Florida (but I've been there many times though), but given the highest
> elevation in the whole state of Florida is 345 feet, how effective is a hill workout there?
>
> Brian V-Rex & Tailwind // 5664 ft elevation We've now added to a route to focus on hills to vary
> the rides. Avg speeds have still been in the 20-21+ range so those of you looking for a time
> effective hill workout, come join in!

The Pinellas Trail in Clearwater/St Pete's has a number of overpass bridges with fairly steep
grades. A hill workout for me is going to one of these bridges and riding it as fast as I can (quick
turnarounds) 20x in the highest gear I can handle. That is more than 300 ft of climbing on a steeper
than 15% grade. It is not the same as handling a long grade with no breaks but you can make it tough
if you have a will to. I met a guy who was in his 70's said he used a method like this keep in
shape, by daily riding 10x over a section with three close bridges.

--
John Turner http://www.wireless-route-sales.com

Tom Blum · Jun 2, 2003

Here in the southern Sierra's of California, we've got grades that go for 3,000 ft. and more. Now
them's hills! :0)

Actually, Them's [email protected]!!

There is a geographical phenom in Florida known as "The Ridge" It runs down the center of the
peninsula. It has rolling hills as the chief feature.

Of course, the hills are not as severe as other places, but the a slope is a slope and some of the
slopes last for a half mile or so.

This thread is headed towards a "My hill is better than your hill" direction.

21 mph average in hills is awesome. I would have to see the cyclometer , post ride, myself.

BUT, more power to them, if they can perform at that level.

As for myself:

I just changed my speedometer into a "tachometer" ie, a cadence meter.

What a RELIEF!! All the attention to speed had my attention riveted on the dial. NOw I get to ride
for fun again. Faster speeds come as they will.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone

www.gate.net/~teblum

Markku Poysti · Jun 2, 2003

One good way is to calculate the amount of climbing. I did the finnish Pirkka, and they say there's
about 1500 m to climb. I did 215 km in
11:38, which gives 18.5 km/h average speed.

bentcruiser · Jun 2, 2003

Here's my honest averages:

I can keep up with someone riding 18mph or so. There are certain rides in which I have done this. But I like to ride with a certain group of people who ride 15mph or so. So my usual average when I am with these people is 15mph.

Like I have said before...not a speed demon and do not pretend to be. I ride for health and camaraderie. I like to cruise.

Derek

Cletus Lee · Jun 2, 2003

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Here's my honest averages:
>
> I can keep up with someone riding 18mph or so. There are certain rides in which I have done this.
> But I like to ride with a certain group of people who ride 15mph or so. So my usual average when I
> am with these people is 15mph.
>
> Like I have said before...not a speed demon and do not pretend to be. I ride for health and
> camaraderie. I like to cruise.

Is there a 12-step program for Speedoholics?

I started seriously riding in the mid 80s. My first goal was 8 miles. Pretty soon I was up to what
worked out to a 14 mile loop. Then I set a target of doing that in a hour. As I biked more, 14 mph
averages became easier.

Later I started riding with a club and discovered pace lines and the speed advantages of working as
a team. Sometimes I could get up to 20 mph with the peleton but usually finished with a 15-16 mph
average. About 15 years ago, I started having problems hanging on to the end the peleton and soon I
was getting dropped after about 15 -20 miles.

I stopped biking with a group and sought (all too often unsuccessfully) a goal of 15 mph. I biked
less and less. It was less and less fun. Then about 4 years ago I got a 'bent and that put the fun
back in biking for me.

Making a 15mph average was easy on a 'bent. Could I do 16??. It was not long before the 14 mile loop
was just too short. I stretched that up to 20 then thirty. Some time in 2000, I was out for my usual
Saturday AM ride and saw a group of serious cyclists pass me going the other direction. There were 4
recumbents in the group! I turned ans asked the trailing recumbent if I could ride along. Pretty
soon I was a regular. Some of these guys were pretty fast. I worked at it until I was usually one of
the ones at the front of the pack. I could always count on having some one to push me to doing a
little better. Last Saturday, I managed to average 18.2 mph for the 40 miles to our brunch stop.
That is probably a personal best for me on that loop. I commute regularly to work it is 6 miles.
Sometimes I take the long way. I always take the long road home. The hike and bike trail that I use
for most of my ride is rough and it is difficult to make any speed. In spite of that, last Thursday
I averaged 16.5mph on my 12 miles in to work.

I keep telling myself that I don't need to hurry. There is no one else biking during my morning
commute so no one is pushing me but me. This morning, I set out with the good intention to make a
leisurely ride into work. By the time I rolled into the parking garage, I had worked my average up
to 15.5mph. I had also clocked 12 miles.

Is there any hope? Is it wrong to test myself each day in this way? How much is too much? BTW, I am
my happiest when I am speeding dow the highway with a devilish grin on my face.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Robert Siegel · Jun 2, 2003

Cletus, you have worked out an impressive conditioning system. Also, an impressive mph average.

I also try to push myself by riding 10-15 mile loops on well-paved roads and trails and always
working to gradually increase my speed. Unfortunately, things always seems to interfere with my
riding the moment riding gets to be a daily habit. I usually work up to a 17-plus mph average and
then find myself not riding for a while and I revert back to the 15 - 16 mph range. I sometimes ride
with one particular G'ville Cycling Club DF group that rides anywhere from 30 to 50 miles through
some flats and some rolling horse country hills. I am comfortable with their usual 15-16 mph
average. I'm their oldest rider (by 10-20 years, at least) and I'm usually the only recumbent rider.
--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush

"Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> > Here's my honest averages:
> >
> > I can keep up with someone riding 18mph or so. There are certain rides in which I have done
> > this. But I like to ride with a certain group of people who ride 15mph or so. So my usual
> > average when I am with these people is 15mph.
> >
> > Like I have said before...not a speed demon and do not pretend to be. I ride for health and
> > camaraderie. I like to cruise.
>
> Is there a 12-step program for Speedoholics?
>
> I started seriously riding in the mid 80s. My first goal was 8 miles.
Pretty soon I was up to
> what worked out to a 14 mile loop. Then I set a target of doing that in a
hour. As I biked
> more, 14 mph averages became easier.
>
> Later I started riding with a club and discovered pace lines and the speed
advantages of
> working as a team. Sometimes I could get up to 20 mph with the peleton but
usually finished
> with a 15-16 mph average. About 15 years ago, I started having problems
hanging on to the end
> the peleton and soon I was getting dropped after about 15 -20 miles.
>
> I stopped biking with a group and sought (all too often unsuccessfully) a
goal of 15 mph. I
> biked less and less. It was less and less fun. Then about 4 years ago I
got a 'bent and that
> put the fun back in biking for me.
>
> Making a 15mph average was easy on a 'bent. Could I do 16??. It was not
long before the 14
> mile loop was just too short. I stretched that up to 20 then thirty. Some
time in 2000, I was
> out for my usual Saturday AM ride and saw a group of serious cyclists pass
me going the other
> direction. There were 4 recumbents in the group! I turned ans asked the
trailing recumbent if I
> could ride along. Pretty soon I was a regular. Some of these guys were
pretty fast. I worked at
> it until I was usually one of the ones at the front of the pack. I could
always count on
> having some one to push me to doing a little better. Last Saturday, I
managed to average 18.2
> mph for the 40 miles to our brunch stop. That is probably a personal best
for me on that loop.
> I commute regularly to work it is 6 miles. Sometimes I take the long way.
I always take the
> long road home. The hike and bike trail that I use for most of my ride is
rough and it is
> difficult to make any speed. In spite of that, last Thursday I averaged
16.5mph on my 12 miles
> in to work.
>
> I keep telling myself that I don't need to hurry. There is no one else
biking during my morning
> commute so no one is pushing me but me. This morning, I set out with the
good intention to make
> a leisurely ride into work. By the time I rolled into the parking garage,
I had worked my
> average up to 15.5mph. I had also clocked 12 miles.
>
> Is there any hope? Is it wrong to test myself each day in this way? How
much is too much?
> BTW, I am my happiest when I am speeding dow the highway with a devilish
grin on my face.
>
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -

John Foltz · Jun 2, 2003

[email protected] (Scott) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Yeah, isn't the HIGHEST point in Florida under 300 feet high? Here in the southern Sierra's of
> California, we've got grades that go for 3,000 ft. and more. Now them's hills! :0)
>
No, those are mountains. Not to be confused with 'moderate hills.'

Jack Pagel · Jun 2, 2003

Seems that no matter what my "top" speed is, all in all I still average between 10 and 13 mph. That
also includes my rest stops, snack breaks, etc. Speed is nice, but I usually try for "duration". I
get passed by "techno geeks", and end up passing them while they are resting at a watering hole.

Steve Christens · Jun 2, 2003

I think "average" speeds are like golf scores, body weight, and yearly incomes.

For one thing, you need to note the difference between truly average speed including slowing for
traffic, with what you speedo reads when the paceline is tooling along.

My daily solo workout is a 40 mile out-and-back, which takes me about 2:15 most days. This gives an
average of 17.8 or so, even though my speedo reads 18-20 much of the time. But in a paceline with
stronger folks that same amount of effort easily improves the speed by 2-3 mph. So when somone gives
a speed, is it as part of a paceline, or a solo ride?

But when I'm out for the day with my wife, during a century or charity ride, our speedos show an
average of about 14 mph. I wish that were closer to 20, but I'm too busy working on being tall,
blond, handsome, and rich first. (Yikes, that makes me like 0 for 5!)

Steve Christensen Midland, MI

Cletus Lee · Jun 2, 2003

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> I think "average" speeds are like golf scores, body weight, and yearly incomes.
>
> For one thing, you need to note the difference between truly average speed including slowing for
> traffic, with what you speedo reads when the paceline is tooling along.

I like to make the distinction between Average speed (rolling average using the autostop feature
built in to most bike computers) and cruising speed. Cruising speed is for me the steady speed on my
bike computer between stops for traffic.

My Saturday ride with the group is about 40 miles of city streets. That means lots of stops and
starts. By myself, I can 'cruise' at 20-22 for a mile or so. With a paceline and a light
tailwind, cruising moves up to 23-25. Even with that in consideration. I rarely see an average
speed over about 17.5 mph. Last Saturday's 18+ was an exception and that required a little help
from my DF friends.

Varying road conditions will bring that average down. If I get out into the country, I can on my own
manage a little higher on all numbers.

I don't consider myself a fast rider. I don't think I can compete with folks on this list like "the
Wheel Doctor' , Rich Pinto or John Schlitter.

I do try to insure 'Truth in advertizing'. Because some day I may be called upon by some to deliver
on the B.S. Something for everyone to think about.

One thing I have learned is that it takes only a small change to move it up to the next level.
For me that was spinning in a lower gear that got me from a 19mph cruising speed to a 20 mph
cruising speed.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Robert Siegel · Jun 2, 2003

You're right, you probably can't. Few on this NG can. (I sure can't.) But you're still a fast,
well-conditioned rider. The whole point of this thread is summed up in your astute comment: "someday
I may be called upon to deliver on the B.S." (I feel exactly the same way.) A few others on this NG
would do well to adopt that standard.

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote

> I don't consider myself a fast rider. I don't think I can compete with
folks on this list like
> "the Wheel Doctor' , Rich Pinto or John Schlitter.
>
> I do try to insure 'Truth in advertizing'. Because some day I may be
called upon by some to
> deliver on the B.S. Something for everyone to think about.
>
> One thing I have learned is that it takes only a small change to move it
up to the next level.
> For me that was spinning in a lower gear that got me from a 19mph cruising
speed to a 20 mph
> cruising speed.
>
>
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -

Baronn1 · Jun 2, 2003

Right on the mark, Cletus. I'm amazed at some of the claims on this ng as far as speed goes. I then
look at myself, and examin my 16-17 mph avg on empy flat roads. I too can cruise at around 20 or so
for a while (certtainly not 40 miles or even 20). But, even when I pay attention to stopping quickly
as opposed to coasting down at stops, accelerating quickly from those stops, out of curves, after
cresting a rise, etc, my avg speed doesn't reflect my "cruising speed"...

"Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > I think "average" speeds are like golf scores, body weight, and yearly
incomes.
> >
> > For one thing, you need to note the difference between truly average
speed
> > including slowing for traffic, with what you speedo reads when the
paceline is
> > tooling along.
>
> I like to make the distinction between Average speed (rolling average
using the autostop
> feature built in to most bike computers) and cruising speed. Cruising
speed is for me the
> steady speed on my bike computer between stops for traffic.
>
> My Saturday ride with the group is about 40 miles of city streets. That
means lots of stops and
> starts. By myself, I can 'cruise' at 20-22 for a mile or so. With a
paceline and a light
> tailwind, cruising moves up to 23-25. Even with that in consideration. I
rarely see an average
> speed over about 17.5 mph. Last Saturday's 18+ was an exception and that
required a little
> help from my DF friends.
>
> Varying road conditions will bring that average down. If I get out into
the country, I can on
> my own manage a little higher on all numbers.
>
> I don't consider myself a fast rider. I don't think I can compete with
folks on this list like
> "the Wheel Doctor' , Rich Pinto or John Schlitter.
>
> I do try to insure 'Truth in advertizing'. Because some day I may be
called upon by some to
> deliver on the B.S. Something for everyone to think about.
>
> One thing I have learned is that it takes only a small change to move it
up to the next level.
> For me that was spinning in a lower gear that got me from a 19mph cruising
speed to a 20 mph
> cruising speed.
>
>
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -

Mikael Seierup · Jun 2, 2003

"baronn1" skrev...
> Right on the mark, Cletus. I'm amazed at some of the claims on this ng as far as speed goes. I
> then look at myself, and examin my 16-17 mph avg on empy flat roads. I too can cruise at around 20
> or so for a while (certtainly not 40 miles or even 20). But, even when I pay attention to stopping
> quickly as opposed to coasting down at stops, accelerating quickly from those stops, out of
> curves, after cresting a rise, etc, my avg speed doesn't reflect my "cruising speed"...

Let me see... My regular rides alone are around 16 mph average but thats with traffic and gravel
roads and whatnot. Speed is not my primary motivation there so usually my longer rides of 60-90
miles has fast and slow stretches. This is average as measured by my Cateye Astrale in
autostop/start mode but usually on the couple of regular rides I like. If I'm goofing around looking
for new places to go, getting lost and navigating by the sun I'm slower.

As for verified results (though the way you people are carrying on I suppose I need something signed
in blood ;-) ) I averaged 21.25 mph in the 1 hour criterion (flat track with a nice breeze). By
sticking close to our Danish Champ (who munched chocolate biscuits all the way the bastard ;-) ) I
averaged 21.13 mph on a ~40 mile stretch in the EU-STAFF 2002. Undulating but not particularly hilly
tho. All these results were on my old Evita or TE-clone none of which were particularly light.
Measured by stopwatch or time vs. distance so everything is included. Not particularly fast maybe
but at least it should satisfy even the most nitpicking.

The Velokraft feels faster but at the moment I only have cadence due to a defective speedsensor so I
can't give you hard numbers. I usually cruise in 4th-6th gear which at my gearing means 18.6-24.4
mph. Fastest sprint 37 mph so far (cadence/gears) but I hope to reach 40 at the 2003 danish
championships.

M.

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