Trying to increase my FTP from around 250-255 to 280ish by August 1...

[LyncStar]

This post only concerns my interval training during the week. Right now I've been doing 2x20 with 10 minutes recovery at 85% of FTP every Tuesday and Thursday for a couple of weeks. Yesterday, Tuesday, i mixed in what I think are called PPO intervals. I performed a PPO test (started at 100watts and increased by 25 watts every minute until exhaustion - my last minute average was 318 watts).

For the PPO intervals I did 7 (was planning on doing 8 but I was totally gassed) x 3 with 5 minutes recovery between each interval. I picked 3 minutes kinda out of the air thinking I could maintain the 318 PPO for 5 minutes (thus taking 60% of 5minutes) without actually riding the 5 minute test. I chose 5 minutes for the recovery time as 6 seemed too long. Well my results for the 7 intervals were avg power of 320, 321, 318, 315, 311, 310, and 308.

My questions are: Should I continue doing both of these intervals during the week (Tues/Thurs)? Are my PPO intervals about right, or should I increase the recovery time b/t intervals from 5 to 6? Should my 2 x20 intervals with 10 minute recovery remain at 85% of my FTP (my FTP right now is about 250-255), or should I be doing the 2x20 at 100% of FTP?

Your learned advice is most appreciated!!!!!

 

[daveryanwyoming]

A couple of thoughts:

- It's not a good idea to view interval sessions in isolation from the rest of your training week. It's all connected, or should be, and the nature of the interval sessions and recovery from them should be balanced by what you do the rest of the week. For instance it's pretty typical to lose overall workload when introducing short high intensity intervals as it's hard to get as much time, burn as many kj of energy or rack up as much session TSS in power terms during say a classic 5x5 VO2 Max session as you might on a longer Tempo or Threshold ride so it often makes sense to 'prop up' your weekly load by stretching some Tempo or Endurance pace sessions as part of a bigger balancing act. Ignore workload balancing while introducing high end intervals and it's easy to start peaking (if overall workload sags with lower weekly TSS) or to burn out (if workload increases by piling on too much in addition to high end work plus perhaps more racing). So look at the whole week as a system not as piece parts.

- What you're calling PPO intervals are a flavor of VO2 Max intervals. Sounds like you're doing them at about the right intensity and yes 3 minutes works for classic VO2 Max work but 4 to 5 minutes is probably more typical. Some folks have had good luck with shorter VO2 Max work but then you'd want to bump up the intensity a bit. If these are pushing you hard (it should take a lot of focus and effort to complete the last several in a set of 7 even with 5 minutes of recovery) then you'll be primarily targeting peak cardiac output which means both heart rate and heart stroke volume as a means of delivering maximal oxygen to your working muscles. For folks that have trained Threshold work for a long time and have raised their Threshold power to a high percentage of their P_VO2 Max (you can use 5 minute power as a rough estimate of P_VO2 Max but they're not actually the same things) then VO2 Max intervals can be very important for making further progress with FTP. Based on your post your FTP is roughly 79-80% of your 5 minute power. Personally I'd say you're not all that close to your 'aerobic ceiling' and should continue with pure Threshold work unless other racing you haven't mentioned will draw heavily on 3 to 5 minute power.

- If raising your FTP is really your primary goal then I'd stick with a couple to three pure Threshold sessions per week and I'd make some of them longer as in 3x20 minutes, 2x30 or 2x45 minutes or even full 1x60 minute Threshold training efforts on a weekly basis. Personally I've found full hour long 1x60s really useful for FTP improvement but 3x20s are really good as well if you can rally for that third effort. I'd balance that extra training intensity and load with some longer days ridden at Tempo or high L2 pace to get some additional training load but at a pace that still allows some recovery before and after the harder days. If you're doing regular weekly training races or feisty group rides then each of those takes the place of one of your high end 'quality' days so don't try to load up hard intervals between weeknight training races or group rides that push you to your limits.

- If you've been doing structured FTP training for a while you'll likely find a 10% increase by August to be difficult. A lot of folks make progress like that or more in their first season of power training but if you're in year two or three or beyond it's more typical to see gains on the order of 4-7% per year. OTOH, if you've previously been above your current 250-255 watt FTP and you're working back from winter base training then you'd expect to see higher numbers as the season progresses. But regardless the training is the same and your FTP will rise as high as it does by August. With good training you should be able to move it forward, how much is hard to say.

Good luck,
-Dave

 

[LyncStar]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

A couple of thoughts:

- It's not a good idea to view interval sessions in isolation from the rest of your training week. It's all connected, or should be, and the nature of the interval sessions and recovery from them should be balanced by what you do the rest of the week. For instance it's pretty typical to lose overall workload when introducing short high intensity intervals as it's hard to get as much time, burn as many kj of energy or rack up as much session TSS in power terms during say a classic 5x5 VO2 Max session as you might on a longer Tempo or Threshold ride so it often makes sense to 'prop up' your weekly load by stretching some Tempo or Endurance pace sessions as part of a bigger balancing act. Ignore workload balancing while introducing high end intervals and it's easy to start peaking (if overall workload sags with lower weekly TSS) or to burn out (if workload increases by piling on too much in addition to high end work plus perhaps more racing). So look at the whole week as a system not as piece parts.

- What you're calling PPO intervals are a flavor of VO2 Max intervals. Sounds like you're doing them at about the right intensity and yes 3 minutes works for classic VO2 Max work but 4 to 5 minutes is probably more typical. Some folks have had good luck with shorter VO2 Max work but then you'd want to bump up the intensity a bit. If these are pushing you hard (it should take a lot of focus and effort to complete the last several in a set of 7 even with 5 minutes of recovery) then you'll be primarily targeting peak cardiac output which means both heart rate and heart stroke volume as a means of delivering maximal oxygen to your working muscles. For folks that have trained Threshold work for a long time and have raised their Threshold power to a high percentage of their P_VO2 Max (you can use 5 minute power as a rough estimate of P_VO2 Max but they're not actually the same things) then VO2 Max intervals can be very important for making further progress with FTP. Based on your post your FTP is roughly 79-80% of your 5 minute power. Personally I'd say you're not all that close to your 'aerobic ceiling' and should continue with pure Threshold work unless other racing you haven't mentioned will draw heavily on 3 to 5 minute power.

- If raising your FTP is really your primary goal then I'd stick with a couple to three pure Threshold sessions per week and I'd make some of them longer as in 3x20 minutes, 2x30 or 2x45 minutes or even full 1x60 minute Threshold training efforts on a weekly basis. Personally I've found full hour long 1x60s really useful for FTP improvement but 3x20s are really good as well if you can rally for that third effort. I'd balance that extra training intensity and load with some longer days ridden at Tempo or high L2 pace to get some additional training load but at a pace that still allows some recovery before and after the harder days. If you're doing regular weekly training races or feisty group rides then each of those takes the place of one of your high end 'quality' days so don't try to load up hard intervals between weeknight training races or group rides that push you to your limits.

- If you've been doing structured FTP training for a while you'll likely find a 10% increase by August to be difficult. A lot of folks make progress like that or more in their first season of power training but if you're in year two or three or beyond it's more typical to see gains on the order of 4-7% per year. OTOH, if you've previously been above your current 250-255 watt FTP and you're working back from winter base training then you'd expect to see higher numbers as the season progresses. But regardless the training is the same and your FTP will rise as high as it does by August. With good training you should be able to move it forward, how much is hard to say.

Good luck,
-Dave

Dave,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. I really have never done much structured interval work beyond the 2x20s in the past. My FTP (my understanding is that power that you can maintain for an hour) at race time (2nd sat in august) last year was around 265-275. So I do think I'll be able to get back to that, my hope is with sticking some really structured/consistent interval work I can add an extra 5 or 10 watts to my FTP.

Last year I finished LT100 in 9:11. My weight was about 148-150lbs, and it will be the same this year. I'm thinking if I can add that increased power, with some additional pedaling efficiency and mental work, I can break 9.

I totally get what you are saying about load balancing and tempo/endurance rides. I mix those in on the weekends and the "off days" after an interval workout. When you say "pure threshold" intervals, I assume you mean going 2x20 at 100% of FTP (presently for me around 250-255). Also, how much recovery do you recommend between the two intervals? ten minutes? Is the day following a 2x20, 3x20 or 1x60 full recovery/easy spin day?

Are the 85% FTP 2x20s not that helpful? I'm not afraid of pain, I just want to efficiently bump up my FTP. Do you think on one of the "interval/high intensity days" I should stick with the 7/8 x 3 intervals I described above? is 5 mins the right amount of recovery time b/t the intervals?

Again, thanks for your thoughts. Oh yeah, my entire goal is to peak for the LT100 August 12. I'm doing a few other mtb races (Laramie Enduro and Silver Rush), but my only goal with them is to train for L'ville, and have fun, of course ;-).

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Personally I target 90-95% for my pure L4 days. I often get more and don't hold back, especially in the later intervals or second half of the longer efforts but my goal when I start is somewhere in the low 90s as a percentage of FTP.

Doing your L4 work at 85% isn't exactly a waste of time, it's still very good SST training and it all helps but it's not really focused Threshold work. One strategy that I've had good luck with and you might try is to do a 'low and long SST day' and a 'short and high L4 day' in your training week. There are plenty of variations but given your goal at LT100, I'd think about something like:

- 3x20 or 4x15 at 93-100% of FTP on your short and high L4 day.

- 2x30, 2x45 or 1x60 at 85-90% of FTP on your long and low SST day.

In either case if you feel great then feel free to push the end of the efforts or the final few intervals as long as you can complete the workouts and aren't too trashed to train on subsequent days.

In terms of training days most folks I work with do best with a 3 day midweek block coupled with a two day weekend block. These days are all decent training days which might range from the 2x20 or 3x20 stuff mentioned above to perhaps five to six hour L2+/Tempo rides on the weekends. Monday and Friday are typically rest or easy spin days for most working folks both to recover from previous work and to prepare for upcoming work. So a typical week with a strong FTP focus (assumes no racing at this point and no immediate need for L5/L6/L7 work at this point in your season) might look like:

M rest
T 3x20 short and high L4
W 1.5-3 hours Tempo/L2+ varied terrain
Th 2x30, 1x60 or 2x45 long and low SST day
F. recovery spin, easy less than an hour no big gears or hard efforts
Sat. 2-4 hours L2+/Tempo (possibly off road if prepping for LT100)
Sun. 2-4 hours L2+/Tempo (or swap one weekend day for a third Threshold day when you feel recovered enough)

None of that is cast in stone but it's an example of matching up shorter focused midweek rides in a three day block with longer weekend rides and or a long weekend ride coupled with another L4 day if you really want to target Threshold work. As summer wears on you'll probably want to stretch some of those weekend long rides and when you feel strong don't hesitate to push hard for the final hour(s) of your Sunday long ride knowing a rest day is coming up. Feed yourself well, back off if it's too much to handle right now and ramp up towards your goal event.

Good luck,
-Dave

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by LyncStar .



My FTP (my understanding is that power that you can maintain for an hour)

Last year I finished LT100 in 9:11.

For a 9 hour ride I suspect that your 1 hour power output is the wrong number to seek to concentrate on.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .




For a 9 hour ride I suspect that your 1 hour power output is the wrong number to seek to concentrate o

Actually it's a very good training metric to concentrate on as FTP represents sustainable metabolic power or CP from the Monod Scherrer model and is very closely tied to both sustainable power for longer durations and overall endurance at sub Threshold paces. Yes fatigue resistance, efficient glycogen storage and other things that come from some long training days is relevant as well, not to mention off road skills but it all starts with sustainable metabolic power and that's what FTP measures. It's why course records at Leadville have been set by the likes of Leipheimer, Armstrong, and Wiens with their very high FTPs as opposed to say some ultra endurance brevet specialists with less FTP to draw on.

-Dave

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .




For a 9 hour ride I suspect that your 1 hour power output is the wrong number to seek to concentrate on.

I suspect that this will be another thread where you'll find most people disagreeing with you.


If you know your 1 hour power then you can have a fairly good chance of figuring out what you power for a longer time frame is going to be. It's worked for me for rides from 2 hours on the flat to about 15 at altitude (you just have to adjust accordingly if you're a flat-lander who lives at 100ft who'll suddenly be spending the day at an average of 7,000ft).


The key isn't really "what should I ride at for 9 hours" it's more a case of "the first 2 hours are going to be seem somewhat easier than you care to ride at in a race - what power level can I afford to keep riding at". Of course there's other factors like time spent descending and maybe the need to force the pace a bit to get the "out of sight, out of mind" demoralization against other riders in your category going on.



So upping the ol' FTP and throwing in a nice mix of 2 to 4 hours rides will be absolutely fantabulous. Of course the OP might want to throw in a long ride or two just to make sure that the bike and clothing is in tip top shape and comfy for more than 4 hours and give himself a chance to make sure that his stomach still agrees with what worked last year for food 'n drink. Things change - 10,000ft up a hill on a dirt path out in the middle of nowhere really isn't the place to find that out. Plus, if you put out more power you may (but not necessarily) want to adjust the feeding schedule a little so you don't bonk. Apart from that - there's no real need to ride a million miles. The RAAM guys don't even train like that.

 

[numminummi]

Hi!

For threshold my trainer usually gives me workouts consisting mostly of 4-6x10 min @ 100-105% of LTHR and some 3-5x25 min @ 92-100% LTHR. Both workouts lasting 3,5-4 hours.
From what i read on this forum i really don't see any guys recommending 10 min intervals for threshold. Should I stop doing 10 min's and start on more 25 min's?

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .



Actually it's a very good training metric to concentrate on as FTP represents sustainable metabolic power or CP from the Monod Scherrer model and is very closely tied to both sustainable power for longer durations and overall endurance at sub Threshold paces. Yes fatigue resistance, efficient glycogen storage and other things that come from some long training days is relevant as well, not to mention off road skills but it all starts with sustainable metabolic power and that's what FTP measures. It's why course records at Leadville have been set by the likes of Leipheimer, Armstrong, and Wiens with their very high FTPs as opposed to say some ultra endurance brevet specialists with less FTP to draw on.

-Dave

You and swampy seem to be confused about training with power.

Leipheimer and Armstrong train(ed) 6 hours plus a day. Most of the year. They also did those long stage races in Europe. That is typical of those who are professionals. They have good 1 hour numbers because they have good 6 hour numbers not the reverse.

---

LyncStar (the op) should have his power numbers from his 9:15 ride. He should also have information about his off the bike times. From that he should be able to make a plan that will let him compute the power requirement for finishing under 9:00. He can go out do a test at that power output for 9 hours. And then determine his training from the test results.

The reality of his goal is that the difference between 9:15 and 9:00 is noise - weather, trail conditions, bike problems, and such. No so much about conditioning or FTP or 9 hour power.

 

[lanierb]

Quote: Originally Posted by An old Guy .

You and swampy seem to be confused about training with power.

Leipheimer and Armstrong train(ed) 6 hours plus a day. Most of the year. They also did those long stage races in Europe. That is typical of those who are professionals. They have good 1 hour numbers because they have good 6 hour numbers not the reverse.


I totally disagree. I'm still learning, but from what I've read, VO2Max determines the most aerobic power you can generate. The rest of your training determines what you can do with that. Training FTP will increase your muscle's ability to use your VO2 (through growing mitochondria etc). This will largely determine what kind of power your muscles can generate for a long time. Then you need to build fatigue resistance to get to 6 hrs. All of these are important. You think Taylor Phinney got to an NP of 330w for 5+ hrs (a few weeks ago in Romandie) by riding 6 hour rides? I don't.

Also, I highly doubt Leipheimer and Armstrong go on very many 6hr training rides. There's an old quote from Greg Lemond (that I can't locate right now) that says something like there's no training value once you get past about 3-4 hrs. They do the odd 6hr ride but I'd guess it''s not at all the norm. What they do do is ride 3 hours consistently 5+ days per week.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .


You and swampy seem to be confused about training with power....

Seems to me you're the one confused here.

Power at LT, for which FTP is a very good and practical proxy, is the single largest determinant of racing success for events as short as a few minutes to ultra endurance events. There's a big difference between the physiological attributes that correlate with success (e.g. power at LT, FTP) and the training methodology different athletes use to improve those attributes.

Yes, many full time professional riders rely on LSD style base building and long days in the saddle as the backbone of their training. But the primary goal in that training is to improve power at LT as a percentage of their maximal aerobic power (P_VO2 Max). As stated above secondary goals include more efficient glycogen storage, improved fatigue resistance for long days in the saddle and of course lots of on bike time which hones skills but without the power at LT (FTP) they wouldn't be contenders at races like LT100 much less professional grand tours.

A lot of folks on this board associate 'power training' with SST/Threshold style training that exchanges the long hours of LSD training for more focused work at higher relative intensities that are still at or below FTP most of the time. That's a different approach to building fitness that works for many part time riders with full time jobs off the bike but the goals are the same, increase power at LT and increase LT as a function of VO2 Max.

Don't confuse the methods of training with the goals of that training.

I've posted these links before, and I'll do it again as there really is a lot of very good information on the subject of power training:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/power411.aspx

Here's a very relevant quote from the opening paragraph of the article on Threshold Power: (emphasis added)

a person's LT reflects the ability of their muscles to match energy supply to energy demand, which in turn determines the fuel "mix" (i.e., carbohydrate vs. fat) used and the development of muscle fatigue. Consequently, LT - especially when expressed as a power output, which also takes into account cycling efficiency - is the single most important physiological determinant of performance in events ranging from as short as a 3 km pursuit to as long as a 3 week stage race. Just as importantly, because the metabolic strain experienced when exercising at a given intensity is dependent upon the power output relative to power at LT, this parameter provides a physiologically sound basis around which to design any power meter-based training program.

Do yourself a favor and take some time to actually read some of what Dr. Coggan and others have written on the subject of power training before criticizing those who have done just that. Here's a very good place to start: http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1934030554/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Read a bit and you might embarrass yourself a bit less often on these boards. FWIW, lot's of us are 'old guys' (that actually still race) and though we've been steeped in nearly 30 years of racing tradition we're also willing to admit there's much we can learn from modern sports science and the exercise physiology community. Give it a try...

-Dave

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .




Seems to me you're the one confused here.

Power at LT, for which FTP is a very good and practical proxy, is the single largest determinant of racing success for events as short as a few minutes to ultra endurance events. There's a big difference between the physiological attributes that correlate with success (e.g. power at LT, FTP) and the training methodology different athletes use to improve those attributes.

Yes, many full time professional riders rely on LSD style base building and long days in the saddle as the backbone of their training. But the primary goal in that training is to improve power at LT as a percentage of their maximal aerobic power (P_VO2 Max). As stated above secondary goals include more efficient glycogen storage, improved fatigue resistance for long days in the saddle and of course lots of on bike time which hones skills but without the power at LT (FTP) they wouldn't be contenders at races like LT100 much less professional grand tours.

A lot of folks on this board associate 'power training' with SST/Threshold style training that exchanges the long hours of LSD training for more focused work at higher relative intensities that are still at or below FTP most of the time. That's a different approach to building fitness that works for many part time riders with full time jobs off the bike but the goals are the same, increase power at LT and increase LT as a function of VO2 Max.

Don't confuse the methods of training with the goals of that training.

I've posted these links before, and I'll do it again as there really is a lot of very good information on the subject of power training:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/power411.aspx

Here's a very relevant quote from the opening paragraph of the article on Threshold Power: (emphasis added)


Do yourself a favor and take some time to actually read some of what Dr. Coggan and others have written on the subject of power training before criticizing those who have done just that. Here's a very good place to start: http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1934030554/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Read a bit and you might embarrass yourself a bit less often on these boards. FWIW, lot's of us are 'old guys' (that actually still race) and though we've been steeped in nearly 30 years of racing tradition we're also willing to admit there's much we can learn from modern sports science and the exercise physiology community. Give it a try...

-Dave

We seem to agree on most points that you cover.

Perhaps you could provide some support for the one that we differ on: that FTP determines finishing order in a 9 hour race. Just provide the FTP of most of the riders in any mostly solo effort of duration between 6 and 12 hours. If the FTPs are orders within 15% with respect to placings, I will agree with you. (I have never found that FTPs are that closely correlated.)

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .
Just provide the FTP of most of the riders in any mostly solo effort of duration between 6 and 12 hours. If the FTPs are orders within 15% with respect to placings,...

Nice attempt at a strawman. I'll turn that around:

Please provide the FTP of most finishers of any event along with their finishing order for any event to demonstrate that FTP is NOT a predictor of race success. What you don't have the listed FTP of each race entrant? It must be listed in the results somewhere???

Do you disagree with the quote above or more specifically the entire article linked that introduces FTP and establishes it's relevance as a training metric and the anchor of a power training system? That lays it out pretty well.

Bottom line, there's no magic energy delivery metabolism or power generation source that kicks in for a nine hour event that wasn't active for an eight, seven, six or one hour event. They all draw on the krebs cycle and rely on the same attributes including cardiac output, oxygen carrying capacity of the blood, capillary and mitochondrial density in the working muscles and muscle fiber mysosin expression as in fiber types, densities and recruitment/conversions. Sustainable long duration power for endurance events stems from the same underlying processes whether we're talking about a 20 minute, one hour or nine hour event. FTP represents a very good metric to track to see how well the athlete is progressing in terms of sustainable power for a wide variety of durations. Yes someone could derive a system based on best 9 hour power but that's very hard to assess on a regular basis, others have created systems based around 20 minute or 30 minute mean maximal power and that's fine but the most commonly accepted power training metric that's used both to differentiate training levels and to track progress is FTP. If you're going to pick one metric to track and one physiological attribute to focus on in training for a nine hour event it will be FTP or a reasonable proxy (e.g. 20 minute MMP, 30 minute MMP or anything else far enough out on the MMP curve to minimize anaerobic contributions).

You seemed to have trouble with this concept and the value of focusing on FTP relative to the OPs goals. There's no question that building FTP along with riding skills and endurance as posted in my replies to the OP above are exactly what the OP should focus on for this event as opposed to say 15 second maximal sprints, 1 minute anaerobic tolerance intervals or even 5 minute VO2 max intervals (assuming his FTP isn't closing in on his aerobic ceiling).

Follow some of those links, read Hunter and Andy's book. I could paraphrase more of it, but come on you've got to make some effort here.

-Dave

 

[LyncStar]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .



You and swampy seem to be confused about training with power.

Leipheimer and Armstrong train(ed) 6 hours plus a day. Most of the year. They also did those long stage races in Europe. That is typical of those who are professionals. They have good 1 hour numbers because they have good 6 hour numbers not the reverse.

---

LyncStar (the op) should have his power numbers from his 9:15 ride. He should also have information about his off the bike times. From that he should be able to make a plan that will let him compute the power requirement for finishing under 9:00. He can go out do a test at that power output for 9 hours. And then determine his training from the test results.

The reality of his goal is that the difference between 9:15 and 9:00 is noise - weather, trail conditions, bike problems, and such. No so much about conditioning or FTP or 9 hour power.

LyncStar here. Unfortunately I don't have a PM on my mtb. While I understand the time of 11min is "noise," I would rather be on the safe side to make the 9hr break. Thus increasing my power to weight ration (which for me means upping my power), is important. Hey if I really increase my power and finish in 8:30 as opposed to 8:59:59 all the better!!

 

[SteveI]

Quote: Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

Power at LT, for which FTP is a very good and practical proxy, is the single largest determinant of racing success for events as short as a few minutes to ultra endurance events. There's a big difference between the physiological attributes that correlate with success (e.g. power at LT, FTP) and the training methodology different athletes use to improve those attributes.




I recently did my first ever 100 mile TT, and was quite interested afterwards in the huge differences in relative performance compared to 25 miles. E.g. one guy who beat me by 1 minute in a recent 25 mile TT was 25 minutes ahead of me over 100 miles.

After asking and getting quite a few responses, it seems that the power people sustained for the 100 miles ranged from 75% to 90% FTP. So someone with a 350W FTP who can only sustain 75% of that for 4 hours will actually output less power than someone with a 300W FTP who can sustain 90% of that for 4 hours. So I would say that the % FTP you can sustain for a long duration is a highly relevant performance indicator, as well as FTP.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by SteveI .


I recently did my first ever 100 mile TT, and was quite interested afterwards in the huge differences in relative performance compared to 25 miles. E.g. one guy who beat me by 1 minute in a recent 25 mile TT was 25 minutes ahead of me over 100 miles.

After asking and getting quite a few responses, it seems that the power people sustained for the 100 miles ranged from 75% to 90% FTP. So someone with a 350W FTP who can only sustain 75% of that for 4 hours will actually output less power than someone with a 300W FTP who can sustain 90% of that for 4 hours. So I would say that the % FTP you can sustain for a long duration is a highly relevant performance indicator, as well as FTP.

That is the point I try to make. (Given that many racers estimate their FTP from a 20 minute test it just makes the error larger.)