TST titanium frames....

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by LeonardSmalls, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. LeonardSmalls

    LeonardSmalls New Member

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    TST,or titanium sports technologies in washington state has manufactured frames for,among others, bontrager,gary fischer,yeti,fuji,sampson,douglass,etc. the couple i've seen look to be very nice. i'm wondering, if they are aligned properly, immaculately welded,decently warrantied,have virtually the same geometry as most other frames of the same size, then what is really the big difference in these and some of the expensive,high profile frames out there?
     
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  2. boudreaux

    boudreaux New Member

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    If everything is equal,then nothing. It usually does not work that way tho. Alloy,tube diameter,internal butting and shaping are part of it too.
     
  3. LeonardSmalls

    LeonardSmalls New Member

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    yes,of course,i realize that. a bike can have different design features that make it more or less suitable for a specific application.i.e. aero tubes for a TT bike, extra-stiff for a sprinter, less stiff for long distance comfort,etc.etc. i know shaping can enhance stiffness,and butting helps lighten a frame,yet very good and well respected companies like MOOTS use straight guage round tubes, and their clients seem to not have any weight or flex issues with them. i'm hoping someone actually has some specific info on these guys,like are the frames so reasonable because they're cutting major corners somewhere, or simply because they've eliminated some middle-men, and with some big names,you pay for that big name? see what i mean? i've asked this question elsewhere, and can't seem to get an answer of any real substance, basically,it's implied that since the company isn't a high-zoot name, and doesn't cost a fortune, it must be lacking somehow,yet no one seems to have any real info. again...you see what i mean ?
     
  4. boudreaux

    boudreaux New Member

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    Nothing wrong with round straight gage tubes if they are the right diameter,thickness and alloy. IF it's all wrong, it's a POS no matter what name is on it.. Maybe a high zoot name insures it's being done right?, and many of them use size specific tubing. I have trust in Moots,Seven,IF, Serotta... Middle men always make a difference,and there is markup too. You are never going to get the answer you are looking for.
     
  5. LeonardSmalls

    LeonardSmalls New Member

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    yeah,"maybe" a high zoot name insures it's being done right. sure,odds are,that's gonna be true,but no guarantee. lots of house-hold name companies start pumping out junk after they establish the good rep. just like NASA printed on the side ain't no guarantee it won't go up in a ball of fire. and there's a lot of small no-name companies out there busting their asses and putting out great stuff. as you say,i may never get the answer i'm looking for,but i've made further inquiries,and got my fingers crossed,"the truth is out there". i actually have one of the douglass TI frames,a 2001 i got a extra killer deal on earlier this year.it's flexy in a sprint,but i really like it. of course that doesn't tell me anything about how i'll like it in 5 years,hence my inquiries. thanks.....
     
  6. boudreaux

    boudreaux New Member

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    You've got it all figured out. Next time spend the dinero,tell the builder your vitals and expectations and noone will have to offer cheeze with that whine about the flex.
     
  7. LeonardSmalls

    LeonardSmalls New Member

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    no boudreaux,i obviously DON"T have it figured out,or i wouldn't continue seeking an answer from someone that knows.you clearly don't ,so why do you keep returning? i'm not looking for a fight, just some answers that shouldn't be that difficult to get. you know,like the point of this whole website ? i was a little suspicious earlier,but now i really can't help wondering if you're actually the infamous....biker billy !!!!!!
     
  8. DesertRider

    DesertRider New Member

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    Let's face it. A 20-40% increase in price is probably justified given the extra R&D involved,assuming there is extra, but double or more? Come on! We all know it's like everything else in life, you want something a little better than average, you're gonna pay twice as much. I'm wanting to build my own(new) bike, based on a Litespeed Classic frame. They won't sell me a bare frame now. F*** them!!
     
  9. boudreaux

    boudreaux New Member

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    Why don't you ask the folks at TST? Here is another angle. Check Waterford, then check Gunnar. Gunner is made by Waterford but cost alot less.They tell you how they do it. Try serotta,legend Ti vs Fierte Ti. Serotta spells out the difference. Litespeed Vortex,Classic,Aarenberg,same deal.The top end stuff does cost more.
     
  10. LeonardSmalls

    LeonardSmalls New Member

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    thanks boudreaux, think i will drop an E to TST. i don't doubt that serotta,seven,etc. are really killer frames,i'd dearly love one. but i can't help but wonder if the cost/quality lines don't intersect a little lower than we're led to believe.i've no doubt that the axiom,legend or superlight are nicer frames then the douglass,but does that mean the douglass is so lacking that it should be ignored as an option? i guess that's my bottom line question, is it merely "less nice" than the others, or a relative piece of junk?anyway, i've recently almost decided on a merlin i found on sale,i'm just checking all the angles first.
     
  11. LeonardSmalls

    LeonardSmalls New Member

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    hey desert rider,don't despair.....check out the merlin cyrene at excelsports. very similar to the LS classic,at LEAST as good, and probaly a few bucks cheaper than the best you'd ever get the LS. litespeed and merlin are owned by the same company,built in the same place, and both have lifetime warranty, and no one anywhere has a bad word to say about them.i've been flipping coins over the cyrene and the agilis for two weeks.
     
  12. boudreaux

    boudreaux New Member

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    I think less nice. Maybe a bit less craftsmanship,attention to detail fewer options on models and suitability for specific purposes and riders,but not junk. Like Airborne,which gets a bad rap for being cheap made in the orient Ti,but there are plenty of satisfied owners,and I have not head them called junk. For my money,I just picked up a used Big Name Ti frame for even less than the new cost of a discount brand. It's not only lighter,but there is no doubt about it's stiffness and suitabiliy for meeting my expectations.
     
  13. DesertRider

    DesertRider New Member

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    Tube notching, welding and alignment are critical. TST addresses this on their site. Descending at 60 MPH, the amount of aluminum and vanadium in your frame material is not what is going to get you down safely. How often has anyone heard of catastrophic titanium failure leading to a massive lawsuit? It's all for a sense of technological satisfaction while out hammering. IT'S A BICYCLE FRAME!
     
  14. kokyudoza

    kokyudoza New Member

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    When I looked at TST seems they only offered 1" headsets vs. 1 1/8 on virtually everyone else. I'd rather have stiffer steering and longer future compatibility, so decided against it. Am I missing something here? Thanks!-K
     
  15. BaCardi

    BaCardi New Member

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    You'll never be able to tell the difference between a 1" and a 1 1/8" of the same type fork. For example, if you were to try a 1" Reynolds carbon fork and then a 1 1/8" carbon fork, I bet the house you wouldn't be able to tell which is which by feel alone. Of course, there is a difference between carbon, steel, and aluminum forks based on the materials. And a bunch of the newer forks are starting to only come out in 1 1/8".
     
  16. kokyudoza

    kokyudoza New Member

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    I'll admit I've never done a side-by-side, but the long-term compatibility issues seem important in a long-term (read expensive, for those of us paying out of pocket) bike.
     
  17. BaCardi

    BaCardi New Member

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    Yeah, if you're thinking ahead about future compatibility, then go for 1 1/8". Already it looks like carbon manufacturers are going to only offer forks in 1 1/8". Then again, you might want to start thinking integrated. Perhaps, its still even too early for that. Other than that, no noticeable performance difference between 1" and 1 1/8".
     
  18. pudster

    pudster New Member

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    I think that sometimes people miss the point on frames from companies that build lots of frames and companies that are small builders. If you are of a std weight for your height than maybe a frame from a company that makes lots of frames is good for you. Companies that make lots of frames have to guess what type of person is going to be riding them. For instanse you can be 180 lbs and be 5ft tall and need a 50 cm frame or can be 5ft tall and weight 100 lds. The manufacturer has to build a frame that is going to be hevier and stiffer for the 180lder because of lawsuit from frame failure. Going to a small builder can get you the right tube diameter and wall thickness that a large builder can't. TST makes in my opinion very good Ti frames but they are huge and build lots of frames so they can't offer a custom tailored tube set like small builders. I have seen TST frames and they are built with excellent building standards but you can't compare them to a Moots or Dean or a Strong frame. That is what you pay extra for in a small builder.
     
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