TT training progress - looking for feedback

[jshelton]

I've just started doing time-trial specific training the last few weeks. Here's my workout:
=======================================
-15-minute gradual warmup with 2 out-of-saddle intense efforts of about 20 seconds after the 10-minute mark.
- 5 intervals of 4 min. @ LT followed by 3 min. easy
- 10 minute cool-down
=======================================

I record all my sessions on my Polar S725 and compare the graphs. I've noticed that the heart rate has been increasing during the work segments but so is the speed.

For example, a few weeks ago I was averaging about 158bpm (85% max) during work segments with a peak speed of 25-27mph.

Today, I averaged 165bpm (89% max) during each 4-minute segment with peak speeds of 29-31 mph.

For all sessions the perceived exertion is about the same (fairly hard) where my breathing was labored but not panting.

I know I'm improving but I was surprised that my heart rate was that much higher today. My guess is that increased muscle endurance and power is enabling me to push harder and thus achieve a higher heart rate.

Is this what I should expect? Any additional feedback on what is going on here?

I'm somewhat of a newbie, at least to TT training. Just looking for feedback on what the HRM graphs are telling me.

BTW -- I'm 50, 5'10" 205 lbs and my training course is pretty flat (Fiesta Island). My max is 185.

Thanks!
Jim

 

[whoawhoa]

I've just started doing time-trial specific training the last few weeks. Here's my workout:
=======================================
-15-minute gradual warmup with 2 out-of-saddle intense efforts of about 20 seconds after the 10-minute mark.
- 5 intervals of 4 min. @ LT followed by 3 min. easy
- 10 minute cool-down
=======================================

I record all my sessions on my Polar S725 and compare the graphs. I've noticed that the heart rate has been increasing during the work segments but so is the speed.

For example, a few weeks ago I was averaging about 158bpm (85% max) during work segments with a peak speed of 25-27mph.

Today, I averaged 165bpm (89% max) during each 4-minute segment with peak speeds of 29-31 mph.

For all sessions the perceived exertion is about the same (fairly hard) where my breathing was labored but not panting.

I know I'm improving but I was surprised that my heart rate was that much higher today. My guess is that increased muscle endurance and power is enabling me to push harder and thus achieve a higher heart rate.

Is this what I should expect? Any additional feedback on what is going on here?

I'm somewhat of a newbie, at least to TT training. Just looking for feedback on what the HRM graphs are telling me.

BTW -- I'm 50, 5'10" 205 lbs and my training course is pretty flat (Fiesta Island). My max is 185.

Thanks!
Jim

I think Ric or Andy would say that you need around 15 minutes per interval in L4 before your body really tends to notice, unless you do extremely (30-60 second) rest periods. Is it possible that with the higher heart rate you've simply bumped into L5? That duration/rest is fairly normal for L5 intervalss.

 

[RapDaddyo]

I'm thinking that you have increased the power of these intervals pretty significantly even though your RPE is the same. It takes quite a bit more power to increase speed at that level. The increased power would be associated with a higher HR (at least in general). I find it sort of difficult to distinguish power differences with RPE at fairly high output levels. Are you really sure of your MHR?

 

[ferraj]

I would suggest finding your true max heart rate via a cycling specific stress test...look in Joe (?forgot authors last name) "Cyclist Training Bible"- he also has one for tri-geeks. You may not be training at the correct %'s and you can infer a more accurate LT.
Also, I would suggest at least one to two days of much longer intervals (10 + min) with full recovery between.
Percieved exertion (rpe) is accurate for most people, however, the correlation with heart rate, many times, for highly fit athletes can be low.
Combining a power meter w/heart rate is, if you can afford it, is much more accurate and safer. However, HR and RPE can be sufficient as long as you know your true max via testing (not just 210 - age or what you've seen max on HR monitor).
tailwinds
fj

(wow, I haven't answered a question like this since I was at university for exercise phys...I forgot how much fun this can be)

 

[jshelton]

I think Ric or Andy would say that you need around 15 minutes per interval in L4 before your body really tends to notice, unless you do extremely (30-60 second) rest periods. Is it possible that with the higher heart rate you've simply bumped into L5? That duration/rest is fairly normal for L5 intervalss.

Thanks for the input! Yep! Looks like I need longer intervals...

I just bought Chris Carmichael's book "The Ultimate Ride" and he suggests what he calls SteadyState intervals: 2 to 4 efforts of 8 to 20 minutes each at just below LT, with a 1:1 work-to-recovery ratio.

He suggests 15 minute warmups for workouts but a 46 minutes workout for the actual time-trial.

He also suggests doing OverUnder Intervals: 2 to 6 efforts per set, with efforts consisting of 5-10 minutes just below LT and then 2-3 minutes above LT. Recovery is 5-10 minutes between efforts.

Jim

 

[jshelton]

I'm thinking that you have increased the power of these intervals pretty significantly even though your RPE is the same. It takes quite a bit more power to increase speed at that level. The increased power would be associated with a higher HR (at least in general). I find it sort of difficult to distinguish power differences with RPE at fairly high output levels. Are you really sure of your MHR?

Thanks for the input! I feel like I have increased my power but I also think the higher heart rate is partly due to it being a little warmer. I determined my MHR by a high intenstiy effort up a gradual incline of about 100 yards. This was after riding 40-miles.

Jim

 

[jshelton]

I would suggest finding your true max heart rate via a cycling specific stress test...look in Joe (?forgot authors last name) "Cyclist Training Bible"- he also has one for tri-geeks. You may not be training at the correct %'s and you can infer a more accurate LT.
Also, I would suggest at least one to two days of much longer intervals (10 + min) with full recovery between.
Percieved exertion (rpe) is accurate for most people, however, the correlation with heart rate, many times, for highly fit athletes can be low.
Combining a power meter w/heart rate is, if you can afford it, is much more accurate and safer. However, HR and RPE can be sufficient as long as you know your true max via testing (not just 210 - age or what you've seen max on HR monitor).
tailwinds
fj

(wow, I haven't answered a question like this since I was at university for exercise phys...I forgot how much fun this can be)

Thanks fj! Yeah this is fun! I was off the bike for most of the last 10 years due to chronic illness (pituitary failure). I weighed 330 lbs last year and now I weigh 205. I'm jazzed just to be back on the bike! To actually be doing TT training is just super!

I saw 185 on my HRM at the end of a 40-mile ride when I put the pedal-to-metal for about 100 yards going up a gradual incline.

I'll be doing longer intervals. Take a look at my previous replies. I'm going to do the field test suggested by Chris Carmichael in his new book "The Ultimate Ride" : Do 2 3-mile efforts at the hardest pace you can maintain and then use the average heart rate as a guide for his training intervals suggested for time-trialing.

BTW - It's Joe Friel. I have one of his books. I'll probably get a power setup next spring...

Jim

 

[frenchyge]

I saw 185 on my HRM at the end of a 40-mile ride when I put the pedal-to-metal for about 100 yards going up a gradual incline.

I would think it would take more than 100 yds to get up to MHR (even at the end of a ride). I wouldn't trust anything less than a 1-2 minute max effort simply because it takes so long for the heart to respond to a rapid change in power.