Tubies, once again-

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Qui si parla Campagnolo, Aug 15, 2005.

  1. Continental supplies new tubulars for the Tour
    The magenta train Click for larger image

    At the Tour de France, teams such as T-Mobile, Phonak, Crédit Agricole
    and Saunier Duval teams were rolling on new Continental racing tyres
    that contain new compound materials.

    Copy to Jobst....www.cyclingnews.com
     
    Tags:


  2. Peter Chisholm writes:

    > Continental supplies new tubulars for the Tour The magenta train
    > Click for larger image


    > At the Tour de France, teams such as T-Mobile, Phonak, Cr?dit
    > Agricole and Saunier Duval teams were rolling on new Continental
    > racing tyres that contain new compound materials.


    > www.cyclingnews.com


    This is no different from the hype put out by every new reincarnation
    of someone's tires. What sort of flats did they expect on their
    famous "Parcours"? Vectran is supposed to prevent penetration by
    sharp objects, so they rode around on cobbles and dirt roads.
    Meanwhile there is plenty of reference to the brutal Paris-Roubaix
    race that punishes tires.

    http://www.vectranfiber.com/

    Wow, space aged stuff no doubt with myriad uses.

    # Conti rolled out Vectran-layered tubulars at Paris-Roubaix earlier
    # this year and it was that confident of its new product, it even
    # invited a group of cycling journalists (and cobbles novices) onto
    # the famous parcours to test them. Nobody flatted, or fell off, for
    # that matter, and the next day, the company reported a 75 percent
    # reduction in flats recorded by its sponsored teams (see technical
    # report).

    The technical report doesn't seem to make much sense. Just the
    diagram they offer is so insulting in its "let them eat cake" attitude
    of presenting a vague tire cross section that has nothing to do with
    reality, the rim is not shown while rim tape, tire bead, casing plies,
    Vectran layer, and tread are in schematic form. It is unclear what
    the sew-up seam is.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2005/features/conti_tech

    Jobst Brandt
     
  3. [email protected] wrote:
    > Peter Chisholm writes:
    >
    > > Continental supplies new tubulars for the Tour The magenta train
    > > Click for larger image

    >
    > > At the Tour de France, teams such as T-Mobile, Phonak, Cr?dit
    > > Agricole and Saunier Duval teams were rolling on new Continental
    > > racing tyres that contain new compound materials.

    >
    > > www.cyclingnews.com


    >
    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2005/features/conti_tech
    >
    > Jobst Brandt


    Not about the 'technology', about the teams that use tubies, like most
    of them, something you continue to dispute in spite of never being
    there to observe, as others have.
     
  4. > The technical report doesn't seem to make much sense...

    It was probably written by the marketing dept.

    Yeah, the schematic does have some issues. For one, tubies don't have
    'beads'. I suspect the 'seam' is depicting the stitching. And what's up
    with the casing that overlaps just below the 'breaker'?

    Jobst, why is it necessary to show the rim?

    Greg Hall
     
  5. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >> The technical report doesn't seem to make much sense...

    >
    > It was probably written by the marketing dept.
    >
    > Yeah, the schematic does have some issues. For one, tubies don't have
    > 'beads'. I suspect the 'seam' is depicting the stitching. And what's up
    > with the casing that overlaps just below the 'breaker'?
    >
    > Jobst, why is it necessary to show the rim?
    >
    > Greg Hall
    >


    Thought Tufo tubulars has beads:
    http://www.bikyle.com/TufoRoad.asp
    -tom
     
  6. Tom Nakashima wrote:

    > Thought Tufo tubulars has beads:
    > http://www.bikyle.com/TufoRoad.asp


    It has an attached bead because it's made to be used on a clincher rim.
    We all know that tubular tires, by definition, do not have "beads". I
    don't know what Continental means in using that term on the diagram,
    except as some sort of anchor point that the fabric plies are folded
    over to construct the tire casing.
     
  7. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Tom Nakashima wrote:
    >
    >> Thought Tufo tubulars has beads:
    >> http://www.bikyle.com/TufoRoad.asp

    >
    > It has an attached bead because it's made to be used on a clincher rim.
    > We all know that tubular tires, by definition, do not have "beads". I
    > don't know what Continental means in using that term on the diagram,
    > except as some sort of anchor point that the fabric plies are folded
    > over to construct the tire casing.
    >


    Yes, the Tufo are made for clincher rims and will never purchase them.
    Here's another view: http://www.bikyle.com/images/TufoTubClincher.jpg

    I used to ride the Clement Seta tubulars, when sew-ups were the only tire of
    choice years ago, until Specialized came out with the Turbo clincher (1978).
    I believe they advertised them as high pressure and you can mount them
    "straight" on the rim as a selling point.
    I do missing riding on tubulars, just didn't enjoy fixing flats and gluing
    them on the rim.
    -tom
     
  8. > when sew-ups were the only tire of choice

    Still the only choice for me. I'm currently riding a Vittoria Seta CX.
    I have to say that this is the best tire I've ever ridden. Too bad
    they're all long gone.

    > didn't enjoy fixing flats


    My most recent sewup surgery was on 19 tires. Five were DOA (didn't
    make it out of tire triage), three held air (I couldn't find a leak),
    one died on the operating table, one needed a valve core replacement.
    The remaining nine are now awaiting their place in a spare bag. Once
    the assembly line gets going the process goes pretty quickly. Good
    music and refreshements also help out.

    > gluing them on the rim.


    A truing stand and can of Conti cement (the one with the brush in the
    lid) make this job less messy than my previous method of spreading
    Clement cement with a plastic bag covered finger.

    Greg Hall
     
  9. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >> when sew-ups were the only tire of choice

    >
    > Still the only choice for me. I'm currently riding a Vittoria Seta CX.
    > I have to say that this is the best tire I've ever ridden. Too bad
    > they're all long gone.
    >
    >> didn't enjoy fixing flats

    >
    > My most recent sewup surgery was on 19 tires. Five were DOA (didn't
    > make it out of tire triage), three held air (I couldn't find a leak),
    > one died on the operating table, one needed a valve core replacement.
    > The remaining nine are now awaiting their place in a spare bag. Once
    > the assembly line gets going the process goes pretty quickly. Good
    > music and refreshements also help out.
    >
    >> gluing them on the rim.

    >
    > A truing stand and can of Conti cement (the one with the brush in the
    > lid) make this job less messy than my previous method of spreading
    > Clement cement with a plastic bag covered finger.
    >
    > Greg Hall
    >

    I actually got pretty good at installing tubulars....stretching them out for
    a few days on a blank rims "without" glue before final installation. Yes,
    the Vittoria Seta CX silks were my 2nd choice. I once had a Clement Seta
    front that was pretty well worn, but I kept putting off changing it because
    I loved the way it rode. I don't think I have to tell you about a new
    tubular on the front, just takes awhile to break-in before they start to
    feel decent. Thinking I could squeeze in one more ride, I had a blow-out on
    a descent and ended up crashing. Downtube friction shifting at the time,
    and bent the brake lever pretty bad . The funny thing is that even with a
    bent lever I could still brake and the shifters were undamaged...for all you
    ergo/sti lovers. That Clement tire hung in the garage for the longest time
    to remind me that you're only riding on two tires so pay the small price for
    safety.

    More horror tubular stories;
    1. two flats on one ride with only one spare sew-up and no repair kit. Ever
    try to look cool riding a 3/4 filled bus on the East Side carrying a bike in
    cycling attire, cycling cap, and those thin black cycling shoes with
    shoelaces and no socks?
    2. The very first time I glued on a tubular, I used Clement "Red"
    cement...let's just say it was artistic.
    3. Taking 45 min. to carefully fix a flat with my needle kit, only to find
    that I patched one of two pin-hole leaks.
    -tom
     
  10. I flirted with Tufo Tubular Clinchers- HI-Carbon. The front tire got a
    1 centimeter cut, and that was the end of that tire. A few weeks later,
    the rear tire got punctured by a tiny piece of limestone screening. It
    was a three mm puncture. The sealant didn't take, so I rode home on the
    flat. When I got home, I ordered a set of the new Vittoria EVO CXs. I'm
    planning on replacing the Tufo S33 tubies with Vittoria Extreme Pave
    tires. I have always had good luck with Vittoria tires in general -
    picking pieces of flint, cinders, and glass out of them that had
    flatted Contis and Michelins. The S33 tubies do have more rolling
    resistance - compared to the Vittoria clinchers, the Tufos feel as if
    I'm riding in sand.
    Tom P.
     
  11. Greg Hall writes:

    >> The technical report doesn't seem to make much sense...


    > It was probably written by the marketing dept.


    > Yeah, the schematic does have some issues. For one, tubies don't
    > have 'beads'. I suspect the 'seam' is depicting the stitching. And
    > what's up with the casing that overlaps just below the 'breaker'?


    > Jobst, why is it necessary to show the rim?


    The base tape shown, apparently is conforming to some rim, with a
    shape that no clincher or tubular rim has. It gives the impression
    the artist knew nothing about tires and worked from a freehand sketch.

    Jobst Brandt
     
  12. 41

    41 Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >What sort of flats did they expect on their
    > famous "Parcours"? Vectran is supposed to prevent penetration by
    > sharp objects


    <http://tinyurl.com/8tw9k>
    x25,000? drunken maudit Belges/year * 100? years =
    <http://tinyurl.com/cdw7a>

    The rider only knew what the cause of the last one was, but surely all
    the others were similar. There's no other way to average 8 flats per
    race on 25-30mm tires inflated to 85-100psi.


    By the way, check out photo #7 of <
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/hwfact.html>. Is this like the
    stress-relief machine at Trek that you have described?
     
  13. George King writes:


    >> What sort of flats did they expect on their famous "Parcours"?
    >> Vectran is supposed to prevent penetration by sharp objects,
    >> I see only cobble stones.


    > <http://tinyurl.com/8tw9k>
    > x25,000? drunken maudit Belges/year * 100? years =
    > <http://tinyurl.com/cdw7a>


    > The rider only knew what the cause of the last one was, but surely all
    > the others were similar. There's no other way to average 8 flats per
    > race on 25-30mm tires inflated to 85-100psi.


    > By the way, check out photo #7 of <
    > http://www.yellowjersey.org/hwfact.html>. Is this like the
    > stress-relief machine at Trek that you have described?


    I haven't seen the TREK machine but it seems like this could be the
    same. I had it described to me by Damon Rinard.

    Jobst Brandt
     
  14. 41

    41 Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > > By the way, check out photo #7 of <
    > > http://www.yellowjersey.org/hwfact.html>. Is this like the
    > > stress-relief machine at Trek that you have described?

    >
    > I haven't seen the TREK machine but it see ms like this could be the
    > same. I had it described to me by Damon Rinard.


    Perhaps someone could ask the photographer, Sky Jaeger of Bianchi, what
    it was and how it was explained to her..
     
  15. On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 01:10:30 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >The base tape shown, apparently is conforming to some rim, with a
    >shape that no clincher or tubular rim has. It gives the impression
    >the artist knew nothing about tires and worked from a freehand sketch.


    Sounds right for any marketing department in any company.

    Jasper
     
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