Tubless...Not A Rant I Swear.

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Bill Wheeler, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    Seriously why tubeless?

    Do they roll better?

    Can you run them at low pressures...without having to worry
    about the seal?

    What if you puncture the tire, how do you seal it out on
    the trail?

    Will the feel like they may fold on tight corners? This
    happens now to my high volume WTB Muntoblahblahblahs.

    Below is a piece of hype crap I found while checking out
    tubeless stuff. Remember this is not a rant just what
    I've found.

    >>>>>start Hype<<<<
    Designed to be the lightest, fastest tubeless cross country
    mountain bike race tire in the world. Low profile tread
    pattern tire that has placed numerous pro riders on the
    podium. For hard-pack to moderately loose terrain.
    >>>>>end Hype<<<<<

    Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them and
    if you would ever go back to tubes.

    Peace, Bill

    The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a
    reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate view
    instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
    Tags:


  2. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them and
    > if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >
    > Peace, Bill
    >

    Damn Bill, all that one-cog crap must've gotten to your
    head. We've been talking about tubeless forever.

    In short: I have not had a flat since going tubeless about a
    year ago. I use the same model tire - IRC Serac - and things
    feel good, but whether that's due to tubeless magic or me
    getting better I don't know. I hated tubes - lots of
    problems - and I love tubeless - put on the tire once, and
    forget it.

    Chris
     
  3. Ride-A-Lot

    Ride-A-Lot Guest

    Work great but sound like crap on the trail.

    Bill Wheeler wrote:
    > Seriously why tubeless?
    >
    > Do they roll better?
    >
    > Can you run them at low pressures...without having to
    > worry about the seal?
    >
    > What if you puncture the tire, how do you seal it out on
    > the trail?
    >
    > Will the feel like they may fold on tight corners? This
    > happens now to my high volume WTB Muntoblahblahblahs.
    >
    >
    > Below is a piece of hype crap I found while checking out
    > tubeless stuff. Remember this is not a rant just what
    > I've found.
    >
    >>>>>> start Hype<<<<
    > Designed to be the lightest, fastest tubeless cross
    > country mountain bike race tire in the world. Low profile
    > tread pattern tire that has placed numerous pro riders on
    > the podium. For hard-pack to moderately loose terrain.
    >>>>>> end Hype<<<<<
    >
    > Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them and
    > if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >
    > Peace, Bill
    >
    >
    > The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as
    > a reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate
    > view instead of an interpretation of the world.
    > :-]
     
  4. S O R N I

    S O R N I Guest

    Bill Wheeler wrote:
    > Seriously why tubeless?

    Ahem. It's TUBless.

    Bill "better for showers" S.
     
  5. Pippen

    Pippen Guest

    "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Seriously why tubeless?

    See below

    >
    > Do they roll better?
    >

    Can't tell a difference.

    > Can you run them at low pressures...without having to
    > worry about the seal?

    Yes

    >
    > What if you puncture the tire, how do you seal it out on
    > the trail?

    They become an expensive tube tire.

    >
    > Will the feel like they may fold on tight corners? This
    > happens now to my high volume WTB Muntoblahblahblahs.
    >

    My experience is no...

    >
    > Below is a piece of hype crap I found while checking out
    > tubeless stuff. Remember this is not a rant just what
    > I've found.
    >

    I bet you could find that type of hype for almost any tire
    tube or tubeless...

    > >>>>>start Hype<<<<
    > Designed to be the lightest, fastest tubeless cross
    > country mountain bike race tire in the world. Low profile
    > tread pattern tire that has placed numerous pro riders on
    > the podium. For hard-pack to moderately loose terrain.
    > >>>>>end Hype<<<<<
    >
    > Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them and
    > if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >
    > Peace, Bill
    >
    >
    > The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as
    > a reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate
    > view instead of an interpretation of the world.
    > :-]

    Bill,

    I just finished putting my tubeless tires back on tonight...
    I like tubeless, I think they grip better in corners, smooth
    out the ride, climb better and no pinch flats. Sounds like
    about everything... I guess I attribute the
    characterteristics above to less pressure allowing a larger
    contact patch. I know that with a larger contact patch one
    would expect that there would be more roll resistance but
    that does not seem to be the case in my experience, if there
    is a difference I can not tell...

    But as with anything they are not with out their con's. I
    should state my experience comes from Colorado, mostly
    Front Range riding which is hardpack/loose gravel/sandy. I
    also race on them, Winter Park series and some of the
    Mountain States Cup... I'm using the Kenda Karisma's Front
    and Rear specific on Mavic XL's. I run about 35 to 38 psi
    in my tubeless vs. 45 to 50 psi in my tubes and still get
    pinch flats (had one last night and that is what prompted
    me to change them out tonight). I do not use slime in my
    tubless tires...

    Here are the Con's:
    * Very slow leaks, every second or third day you will need
    to add air. Leak around the rim seal.
    * Very tight the first time you put them on but loosen up, I
    put mine on tonigth by hand, no lever.
    * If you flat you are back to a tube tire and can be more
    difficult than a tube tire to take on and off the rim.
    * Very expensive. You can find deals but most run about
    $50.00 + per tire.
    * This may not be a con but the every time you put a
    tubeless tire on the first time you will need to over
    inflate, usually upto about 60 psi. You will here the tire
    pop as the tire seats in against the rim walls. Later when
    adding air this is not necessary.

    The Pro's:
    * Grip better when cornering, climbing ect.
    * Smooth out the ride. you can run lower pressure so the
    tires will dampen some of the small stuff.
    * No pinch flats. You have really hit something if you run
    the rim through the tire...
    * Over all better control of the bike when it comes to
    technical riding. You don't get the bouncing that you do
    with tube tires over slow technical riding. Including
    better grip on off camber stuff.

    As I mentioned in the beginning of the post I just put my
    tubeless back on. Due to expense and wear I run cheaper tube
    tires during the winter when it just does not matter. Now
    that the trails are thawing out a bit around here I'm
    putting them back on. The pro's definitely out weigh the
    con's for ME... I was at first a skeptic but a friends who
    had them talked me into trying them, the rest is history.

    Tubeless in Colorado,

    -js
     
  6. Joel Crum

    Joel Crum Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>
    >> Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them
    >> and if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >>
    >> Peace, Bill
    >>
    >
    > Damn Bill, all that one-cog crap must've gotten to your
    > head. We've been talking about tubeless forever.
    >
    > In short: I have not had a flat since going tubeless about
    > a year ago. I use the same model tire - IRC Serac - and
    > things feel good, but whether that's due to tubeless magic
    > or me getting better I don't know. I hated tubes - lots of
    > problems - and I love tubeless - put on the tire once, and
    > forget it.
    >
    > Chris
    >
    >
    >

    How much do they weigh as compared to ordinary tires?

    --
    - Joel C.

    "Smile and take your awkward bow. Turn and stumble off the
    stage. Let the rain be your applause, every encore soothe
    your rage." - "Benediction" by The Weakerthans
     
  7. Dave W

    Dave W Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> had this to say
    news:[email protected]

    >
    > "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>
    >> Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them
    >> and if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >>
    >> Peace, Bill
    >>
    >
    > Damn Bill, all that one-cog crap must've gotten to your
    > head. We've been talking about tubeless forever.
    >
    > In short: I have not had a flat since going tubeless about
    > a year ago. I use the same model tire - IRC Serac - and
    > things feel good, but whether that's due to tubeless magic
    > or me getting better I don't know. I hated tubes - lots of
    > problems - and I love tubeless - put on the tire once, and
    > forget it.
    >
    > Chris

    And I haven't had one in almost 2 years with my tube filled
    WTB Motoraptors. To each there own I s'pose.

    >
     
  8. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them
    > > and if you would ever go back to tubes.
    > >
    > > Peace, Bill
    > >
    >
    > Damn Bill, all that one-cog crap must've gotten to your
    > head. We've been talking about tubeless forever.
    >
    > In short: I have not had a flat since going tubeless about
    > a year ago. I use the same model tire - IRC Serac - and
    > things feel good, but whether that's due to tubeless magic
    > or me getting better I don't know. I hated tubes - lots of
    > problems - and I love tubeless - put on the tire once, and
    > forget it.

    A flat? WTF is that?

    Tubeless? WTF is that?

    Shaun aRe
     
  9. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Joel Crum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >
    >
    > How much do they weigh as compared to ordinary tires?
    >
    > --
    > - Joel C.
    >

    Also covered in numerous previous discussions, but...

    The tires are heavier than standard tires. The lost weight
    of the would-be tube usually makes up the difference, but
    even if the UST setup were 2-300 grams heavier, I'll never
    notice. I'm carrying about 10 pounds of extra weight
    wrapped around my midsection, so what right do I have to
    count grams.

    Serious weight counters seal off non-UST tires and run them
    tubeless. It works, but is a bit tricky and has a high
    potential for mess.

    Chris
     
  10. John Harlow

    John Harlow Guest

    > Seriously why tubeless?

    Several years of experience with them have proven they are
    far more reliable for me.
     
  11. "Pippen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s01...
    >
    > "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    > > Seriously why tubeless?
    >
    > See below
    >
    > >
    > > Do they roll better?
    > >
    >
    > Can't tell a difference.
    >
    > > Can you run them at low pressures...without having to
    > > worry about the seal?
    >
    > Yes

    Sometimes.

    > I just finished putting my tubeless tires back on
    > tonight... I like tubeless, I think they grip better
    > in corners, smooth out the ride, climb better and no
    > pinch flats.

    Sometimes.
     
  12. D H

    D H Guest

    "Pippen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s01...
    > (snip) I just finished putting my tubeless tires back on
    > tonight... I like tubeless, I think they grip better in
    > corners, smooth out the ride, climb better and no pinch
    > flats. Sounds like about everything... I guess I attribute
    > the characterteristics above to less pressure allowing a
    > larger contact patch. I know that with a larger contact
    > patch one would expect
    that
    > there would be more roll resistance but that does not seem
    > to be the case
    in
    > my experience, if there is a difference I can not tell...
    >
    > But as with anything they are not with out their con's. I
    > should state my experience comes from Colorado, mostly
    > Front Range riding which is hardpack/loose gravel/sandy. I
    > also race on them, Winter Park series and some of the
    > Mountain States Cup... I'm using the Kenda Karisma's Front
    > and Rear specific on Mavic XL's. I run about 35 to 38 psi
    > in my tubeless vs.
    45
    > to 50 psi in my tubes and still get pinch flats (had one
    > last night and
    that
    > is what prompted me to change them out tonight). I do not
    > use slime in my tubless tires...
    >
    > Here are the Con's:
    > * Very slow leaks, every second or third day you will need
    > to add air.
    Leak
    > around the rim seal.
    > * Very tight the first time you put them on but loosen up,
    > I put mine on tonigth by hand, no lever.
    > * If you flat you are back to a tube tire and can be more
    > difficult than a tube tire to take on and off the rim.
    > * Very expensive. You can find deals but most run about
    > $50.00 + per tire.
    > * This may not be a con but the every time you put a
    > tubeless tire on the first time you will need to over
    > inflate, usually upto about 60 psi. You will here the
    > tire pop as the tire seats in against the rim walls.
    > Later when adding air this is not necessary.
    >
    > The Pro's:
    > * Grip better when cornering, climbing ect.
    > * Smooth out the ride. you can run lower pressure so the
    > tires will dampen some of the small stuff.
    > * No pinch flats. You have really hit something if you run
    > the rim through the tire...
    > * Over all better control of the bike when it comes to
    > technical riding.
    You
    > don't get the bouncing that you do with tube tires over
    > slow technical riding. Including better grip on off
    > camber stuff.
    >
    > As I mentioned in the beginning of the post I just put my
    > tubeless back
    on.
    > Due to expense and wear I run cheaper tube tires during
    > the winter when it just does not matter. Now that the
    > trails are thawing out a bit around
    here
    > I'm putting them back on. The pro's definitely out weigh
    > the con's for
    ME...
    > I was at first a skeptic but a friends who had them talked
    > me into trying them, the rest is history.
    >
    > Tubeless in Colorado,

    Thanks for the well-reasoned post. I appreciate the
    depth of answer and honesty about pros and cons. Glad
    they work for you. I'm hard to convince when it comes to
    tubeless. First, I'm too cheap to spend the extra on
    tires. Second, as I perceive it, there is NO weight
    advantage I can see, and potential for a serious weight
    DISadvantage if you have to add either a tube or slime.
    The slime mess is definitely not for me, either. Third,
    I'm not in the market for new wheels anytime soon (I
    hope.) I'll admit I wouldn't mind the small gain in
    pressure change for traction purposes, but as I am in
    the 155-160 pound range, I can run Panaracer FireXC Pros
    at 45psi and almost never have a pinch flat, even riding
    pretty hard through plenty of rocks. Thorn flats, that's
    another story since I have them periodically, and this
    weighs against tubeless in my opinion. Seems to me it
    means I'd be using slime, thus the aforementioned weight
    DISadvantage is highly likely in my territory. Often, I
    can ride out thorn flats without problem, forget about
    it until I pump up before the next ride. Of course, this
    is also possible with tubeless if the holes are small. I
    recently rode with a buddy who had a new Lightspeed that
    came with tubeless. He got a thorn puncture midway
    through the ride and thought he would have to use a tube
    before finishing his first ride on them. He also had
    little idea of what would be involved in fixing them
    (ie. possibly tighter tire bead against the rim, if
    that's true, and as some have reported, possible
    troubles getting enough burst of air to reseat the
    tire.) Fortunately for him, even though he could hear
    and SEE the air escaping (through a bit of water on the
    tire, bubbling up rather quickly), he was able to ride
    out a couple more hours without problem because the leak
    was so slow. I MIGHT be convinced at some later date,
    but for now, I'm sticking with tubes till something
    happens to allow me to try tubeless on the cheap.
    --
    D N I E T S Off to R the M __, D H

    Reply to group. (Detestible spammers!)
     
  13. "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Serious weight counters seal off non-UST tires and run
    > them tubeless. It works,

    Sometimes.

    >but is a bit tricky and has a high potential for mess.

    You've got that right.
     
  14. Gazzer

    Gazzer Guest

    > Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them and
    > if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >

    Running lower tire pressures is something that really
    does make the bike ride better. Even with the low
    pressures I've been runnnig I've had no pinchflats with
    the tubless, despite hearing/feeling some real rim
    dingers. The tubless serac sidewall does tend to fold
    over on corners, which can be disconcerting. After some
    initial scepticism, i'll stay with the tubless option,
    but carry a spare tub, just in case.

    cheers g
     
  15. Bruce Edge

    Bruce Edge Guest

    p e t e f a g e r l i n wrote:
    > "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:KeWdnYi6BvRxYNLdRVn-
    > [email protected]
    >
    >
    >>Serious weight counters seal off non-UST tires and run
    >>them tubeless. It works,
    >
    > Sometimes.
    >
    >>but is a bit tricky and has a high potential for mess.
    >
    > You've got that right.
    >
    You have to email stans and get their blessing for your non-
    UST tires. They warned me about some I was running and they
    were right. Under hard side loads they would bloooorp a wad
    of half and half out the bead. On heavy landings they would
    blow off the rim completely and shower everyone around with
    the white goo.

    However, since I switched to a brand they have blessed, I
    have had no problems.

    -Bruce
     
  16. Westie

    Westie Guest

    Bill Wheeler wrote:
    > Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them and
    > if you would ever go back to tubes.

    I do like them but hard to say why. Saying that they "feel
    better" isn't really helpful but they do. I like the
    advantages of lower pressures at times. I run them with
    about 40ml of Stans in them. I must admit that I like being
    able to roll down some of my favourite singletrack that has
    6 foot high gorse bushes either side and not have to worry
    about punctures.

    I haven't used many different UST tyres yet but the Nokian
    2.1 NBX's stick nicely to the smooth rock, the hardpack and
    like glue to tarmac but get squirrelly on the loose stuff.
    The Hutchy 2.0 UST Scorpions are almost the opposite to the
    NBX's in handling.

    Never had a problem with loosing air over time. With the pin-
    prick punctures that I get on my trails the little bit of
    Stan's makes the tubeless more reliable than tubes. I only
    have to add air maybe once a week?

    The hutchys mount and seal on Mavic rims like a dream. The
    NBX's are tighter and a bit of a bitch to mount but they
    seal very well too. I just use a little mini pump to seal
    both. Never needed a track pump or air compressor.

    I won't be going back to tubes in the forseeable future.
    --
    Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)
     
  17. Onefred

    Onefred Guest

    "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Seriously why tubeless?
    >
    > Do they roll better?
    >
    > Can you run them at low pressures...without having to
    > worry about the seal?
    >
    > What if you puncture the tire, how do you seal it out on
    > the trail?
    >
    > Will the feel like they may fold on tight corners? This
    > happens now to my high volume WTB Muntoblahblahblahs.
    >
    >
    > Below is a piece of hype crap I found while checking out
    > tubeless stuff. Remember this is not a rant just what
    > I've found.
    >
    > >>>>>start Hype<<<<
    > Designed to be the lightest, fastest tubeless cross
    > country mountain bike race tire in the world. Low profile
    > tread pattern tire that has placed numerous pro riders on
    > the podium. For hard-pack to moderately loose terrain.
    > >>>>>end Hype<<<<<
    >
    > Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them and
    > if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >
    > Peace, Bill

    Bill, I can't answer all your questions, but I notice that
    tubeless can corner much faster and the lower pressure
    handles wet slick rock better, too. More rolling resistance
    w/ the lower pressure. I know that most carry a spare tube
    for repairs when on the trails. Not sure how this works,
    tho. Tubeless is a legitimate technological improvement but
    at a cost -- weight. The only exception is Stan's No Tubes
    which are even lighter than conventional tube & tire combos.
    Stan's is extremely popular in racing circles, which
    probably is its only good use.

    Obviously, I don't use tubeless, but I sure may begin to
    soon.

    Dave
     
  18. Dave W

    Dave W Guest

    "onefred" <[email protected]> had this to say
    news:[email protected]

    > "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    >> Seriously why tubeless?
    >>
    >> Do they roll better?
    >>
    >> Can you run them at low pressures...without having to
    >> worry about the seal?
    >>
    >> What if you puncture the tire, how do you seal it out on
    >> the trail?
    >>
    >> Will the feel like they may fold on tight corners? This
    >> happens now to my high volume WTB Muntoblahblahblahs.
    >>
    >>
    >> Below is a piece of hype crap I found while checking out
    >> tubeless stuff. Remember this is not a rant just what
    >> I've found.
    >>
    >> >>>>>start Hype<<<<
    >> Designed to be the lightest, fastest tubeless cross
    >> country mountain bike race tire in the world. Low profile
    >> tread pattern tire that has placed numerous pro riders on
    >> the podium. For hard-pack to moderately loose terrain.
    >> >>>>>end Hype<<<<<
    >>
    >> Someone with tubeless please explain why you like them
    >> and if you would ever go back to tubes.
    >>
    >> Peace, Bill
    >
    > Bill, I can't answer all your questions, but I notice that
    > tubeless can corner much faster and the lower pressure
    > handles wet slick rock better, too. More rolling
    > resistance w/ the lower pressure. I know that most carry a
    > spare tube for repairs when on the trails. Not sure how
    > this works, tho. Tubeless is a legitimate technological
    > improvement but at a cost -- weight. The only exception is
    > Stan's No Tubes which are even lighter than conventional
    > tube & tire combos. Stan's is extremely popular in racing
    > circles, which probably is its only good use.
    >
    > Obviously, I don't use tubeless, but I sure may begin
    > to soon.
    >
    > Dave
    >

    For the record, let me say that I will never again "Gloat"
    over my good fortune in regards to running tubes, as I did
    earlier in this thread. I had no less that 3 flats today,
    and that was before I even left the house. then I had
    another whilst on the trail.

    Dave (Karma, man)
    >
    >
     
Loading...
Loading...