Tubless Wheel/Tire questions

[rudycyclist]

I have heard some pretty good things about Shimano's road tubeless system that seems to be picking up as of late. I was thinking about giving them a shot next year but I have a few questions about them first:

1) How easy/hard are they to install?

2) If you flat, do you need to replace the whole tire? Also, if you are training on them and you flat, can you still make it back home?

3) Can you put a clincher tire on the "tubeless" rim?

Thanks for any help anybody can provide.

 

[Powerful Pete]

I cannot answer your questions, but may I ask why you would want to be an early adopter on that type of technology? I would wait 1-2 years and let other riders pay top dollar to help Shimano and Michelin sort out the difficulties with road tubeless systems.

 

[gemship]

I have the new Shimano tubeless wheeset and yes you can install clincher's with tubes. I'm not sure about running tubeless tires or how easy/difficult the installation is.Out of fear of what to do in case of a flat as I'm not a pro I opted for clinchers so I also can't answer that what if scenerio. I basically bought this wheelset because my local bike dealer gave me a great deal on a Cervelo frame in my size under the condition that did the bike build. He happened to have the wheels and honestly the Shimano scandium rims with logos and red spoke nipples look awesome, at least on my bike. It's not a cheap wheelset at about a 1000$ us. nor is it the lightest at 1500+grams. but the overall wieght with tubeless is said to be lighter than with clincher+tube installed.

 

[[email protected]]

I have heard some pretty good things about Shimano's road tubeless system that seems to be picking up as of late. I was thinking about giving them a shot next year but I have a few questions about them first:

1) How easy/hard are they to install?

2) If you flat, do you need to replace the whole tire? Also, if you are training on them and you flat, can you still make it back home?

3) Can you put a clincher tire on the "tubeless" rim?

Thanks for any help anybody can provide.

1)Easy but seating the tire is hard. Not really possible with a floor pump. A compressor is pretty much required.

2)There are tubeless patches available but like a regular tire, if you cut it badly , it is done.

3)Yes but you must use a tube. The tire must be tubeless specific to be used w/o a tube-Hutchison is the only tire maker AFAIK..may be a few others.

3)

 

[[email protected]]

I have the new Shimano tubeless wheeset and yes you can install clincher's with tubes. I'm not sure about running tubeless tires or how easy/difficult the installation is.Out of fear of what to do in case of a flat as I'm not a pro I opted for clinchers so I also can't answer that what if scenerio. I basically bought this wheelset because my local bike dealer gave me a great deal on a Cervelo frame in my size under the condition that did the bike build. He happened to have the wheels and honestly the Shimano scandium rims with logos and red spoke nipples look awesome, at least on my bike. It's not a cheap wheelset at about a 1000$ us. nor is it the lightest at 1500+grams. but the overall wieght with tubeless is said to be lighter than with clincher+tube installed.

Depends on the tire and wheel. Tubeless tires aren't that li ght, in order to have a stiff enough sidewall to stay hooked to a rim.

 

[gemship]

Depends on the tire and wheel. Tubeless tires aren't that li ght, in order to have a stiff enough sidewall to stay hooked to a rim.

Yes I heard the same thing but also read some positive reviews stating the wieght is about the same with less rolling resistance to boot. Anyway as far as I know Shimano is the only offering for a road tubeless wheel and I believe Hutchinson make the only tubeless tire for it? Perhaps I have to get a set later this year to compare to the Vittoria Diamante clincher's currently on.

 

[sideshow_bob]

IRC are making tubeless tires now. Don't know what their availabilty is.

Shimano are the only ones marketed off the shelf. You can't convert any clincher, some more easily than others however. Rims that dont have holes in the outer surface like some of the new campy rims are a snap, just need to add in the removeable valve. Standard rims require tape to cover the holes.

I gave it a go (using the Hutchison tire) and a no-tubes kit and it worked fine. Needed a compressor to seat the tire through.

--brett

 

[sideshow_bob]

Jsut for the record it's hardly new technology (just a new application of it). MTB'ers have been running UST tubeless since about 2000 or so, and in race wheels it's massively popular.

--brett

 

[Powerful Pete]

Jsut for the record it's hardly new technology (just a new application of it). MTB'ers have been running UST tubeless since about 2000 or so, and in race wheels it's massively popular.

--brett

Fair enough. Sometimes I wonder why we road riders are so conservative...

 

[[email protected]]

Fair enough. Sometimes I wonder why we road riders are so conservative...

I think you need to look at the advantages of tubeless on a MTB and how it may convey to a road bike(few items). Tubes in tires are an old technology but that's the way it evolved. It should have evolved like car tires did, with tubeless and then high tech tires but now, asking a whole wheel/rim industry to change, in a tough market, is a stretch, IMO. Few(none?) advantages of tubeless on a road bike but requiring special wheels/tires and as recommended by tubeless, lots of the goopy Stans stuff as well. Really little wrong with present tubed systems. It appears more like something different rather than something better, like so much in bikes these days.

 

[rudycyclist]

One question that was never really answered...if I were to flat 25 miles from home, how would I go about fixing my tubless tire?

 

[alfeng]

One question that was never really answered...if I were to flat 25 miles from home, how would I go about fixing my tubless tire?

If you aren't using a Stans-type sealant in the tire, then you can remove the valve from the rim & insert a tube ...

OR, "phone home."

 

[Powerful Pete]

Really little wrong with present tubed systems. It appears more like something different rather than something better, like so much in bikes these days.

Yup, I tend to agree, the way I have always looked at road tubeless is as something of a marketing gimmick - as a non-racing rider, I simply do not see the point (I am not a weight weenie or performance freak either).

And I would rather not purchase a new set of wheels with a completely different standard when it comes to tires...

 

[[email protected]]

Yup, I tend to agree, the way I have always looked at road tubeless is as something of a marketing gimmick - as a non-racing rider, I simply do not see the point (I am not a weight weenie or performance freak either).

And I would rather not purchase a new set of wheels with a completely different standard when it comes to tires...

What drives me nuts(lots does in this daffy biz) is how something 'new' is described as 'stiffer, smoother, lighter, longer lasting, blah', implying the old 'standard' was 'sloppy, crunchy, heavy, short lived'; which of course, was not true. Like aluminum chainring bolts, 'lots lighter' but steel ones aren't very heavy to start with.

 

[dgregory57]

In MTB tires, I was under the impression that the advantage of tubeless was to be able to use lower pressure without a fear of pinch flats... Low pressure is good for traction ijn extreme situations.

What is the professed advantage for road tires where higher pressure is good?

 

[Powerful Pete]

In MTB tires, I was under the impression that the advantage of tubeless was to be able to use lower pressure without a fear of pinch flats... Low pressure is good for traction ijn extreme situations.

What is the professed advantage for road tires where higher pressure is good?

Good question. I wonder about the weight (is there any savings with the 'tubeless' rims)? Or are they using the same argument... avoid pinch flats when you have low inflation because you are riding the Paris-Roubaix cobbles on your regular Saturday morning ride?

 

[sideshow_bob]

And I would rather not purchase a new set of wheels with a completely different standard when it comes to tires...

Like UST the rims will take either a tubless tire or a regular one. So for example you buy a set of Dura Ace wheels and you can still use regular clinchers.

-brett

 

[sideshow_bob]

In MTB tires, I was under the impression that the advantage of tubeless was to be able to use lower pressure without a fear of pinch flats... Low pressure is good for traction ijn extreme situations.

What is the professed advantage for road tires where higher pressure is good?

The one main study that has been done, showed that past 120psi you are actually increasing rolling resistance. Though theres a lot of debate I've seen about this outcome.

Anyway how does that pertain to me? A lot of the racing I do is over country roads where the surface is crushed gravel. If I run my tires at 120-130psi (which is my preferred pressure on nice smooth roads) I find I finish races (~160km) with my body just numb and aching. At 100psi I find the ride far more comfortable, unfortunately hitting a hard pot hole edge at that pressure (even a small one) will often give you a pinch flat in a clincher, not a problem in tubeless. Please don't tell me to not hit the pothole. Racing in the middle of a peloton of 60+ riders often you've got no idea whats coming in front of you. So in my circumstances I see that as an advantage.

The other advantage is that small objects penetrating the tire in a tubeless (like radial wire for example) that result in a slow flat in a clincher, don't generally deflate a tubeless, ymmv.

--brett

 

[Powerful Pete]

Like UST the rims will take either a tubless tire or a regular one. So for example you buy a set of Dura Ace wheels and you can still use regular clinchers.-brett

Aha. Now I get it, thanks. So this would actually be a 'dual purpose' wheelset... that actually makes it more interesting...

...At 100psi I find the ride far more comfortable, unfortunately hitting a hard pot hole edge at that pressure (even a small one) will often give you a pinch flat in a clincher, not a problem in tubeless. Please don't tell me to not hit the pothole. Racing in the middle of a peloton of 60+ riders often you've got no idea whats coming in front of you. So in my circumstances I see that as an advantage.

Well there you go, that is actually a decent reason for such a thing...

The other advantage is that small objects penetrating the tire in a tubeless (like radial wire for example) that result in a slow flat in a clincher, don't generally deflate a tubeless, ymmv.

This one I do not understand. Why would that be the case?

 

[dhk2]

FYI, there is a glowing review of tubeless tires in this week's RBR email:

www.roadbikerider.com/currentissue.htm