Tubs versus Clincher Tyres

[Psyron]

Forgive me if this is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am interested in people's opinions of
Tubular tyres compared to clinchers. The reason I ask is I am about to start my second season of
Time Trials and am thinking about changing the wheels on my bike. I am currently using Shimano 105
16 spokes which are OK, but I would like to go over to 3 or 4 spoke wheels or maybe even a rear
disk. Being unable to afford the new price of these wheels, I have been scouring the classified ads
and have found several at a reasonable price, but they are all take Tubular tyres.

I have never used Tubulars before as they seemed like hard work compared to clinchers, but is this
actually true? How difficult are they to mount on the rims, if you get a puncture along the roadside
will you be able to change the tyre, do punctured tyres still have to be repaired at a bike shop?

Is there any reason why these high end Time Trial wheels all seem to be Tubulars, is there any
advantage to using them in a race situation?

Lastly can anyone recommend a good Tubular for Time Trialing, I have been looking at the Vittoria
Crono CS, but I have seen mixed reviews on Vittoria tyres?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but this is a completely new subject to me and I would be interested
in anyone's advice or opinions.

 

[Peter B]

"Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:1UH5a.6492$Lq.493347@stones...
> I have never used Tubulars before as they seemed like hard work compared
to
> clinchers, but is this actually true?

No

>How difficult are they to mount on the rims, if you get a puncture along the roadside will you be
>able to change the tyre, do punctured tyres still have to be repaired at a bike shop?

Dead easy to fit onto the rim using tub-tape, a sort of double sided adhesive tape. Easy to change
at the roadside, potentially easier than a clincher. AFAIK it's always been possible to repair them
yourself, but most would sooner pay someone else for the aggro ;-)

>
> Is there any reason why these high end Time Trial wheels all seem to be Tubulars, is there any
> advantage to using them in a race situation?

Dunno, but the bike retains some degree of controllability in the event of a blow-out.

Pete

 

[A Muzi]

"Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:1UH5a.6492$Lq.493347@stones...
> Forgive me if this is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am
interested
> in people's opinions of Tubular tyres compared to clinchers. The reason I ask is I am about to
> start my second season of Time Trials and am thinking about changing the wheels on my bike. I am
> currently using Shimano 105 16 spokes which are OK, but I would like to go over to 3 or 4 spoke
> wheels or maybe even a rear disk. Being unable to afford the new price of these wheels, I have
> been scouring the classified ads and have found several at
a
> reasonable price, but they are all take Tubular tyres.
>
> I have never used Tubulars before as they seemed like hard work compared
to
> clinchers, but is this actually true? How difficult are they to mount on
the
> rims, if you get a puncture along the roadside will you be able to change the tyre, do punctured
> tyres still have to be repaired at a bike shop?
>
> Is there any reason why these high end Time Trial wheels all seem to be Tubulars, is there any
> advantage to using them in a race situation?
>
> Lastly can anyone recommend a good Tubular for Time Trialing, I have been looking at the Vittoria
> Crono CS, but I have seen mixed reviews on
Vittoria
> tyres?
>
> Sorry to ask so many questions, but this is a completely new subject to me and I would be
> interested in anyone's advice or opinions.

This has been beaten to death here many times before.

If one tests for straight-line rolling resistance, tubs will come up short. The dramatic overall
decrease in weight has been poo-poohed by the crowd and tubs' wonderful feel in a corner cannot be
quantified. So, if you are looking for a definitive answer, you won't get it here.

If you want to try a set of tubs for TT, using the wheels as "event wheels" I think that's a
reasonble thing.

Others, convinced it's an accomodation to superstition, will tell you to use clinchers and get on
with life instead of spending Friday evenings with a sewing kit.

Here's the downside: http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html

YMMV.
--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <1UH5a.6492$Lq.493347@stones>, "Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sorry to ask so many questions, but this is a completely new subject to me and I would be
> interested in anyone's advice or opinions.

Then let me give you a piece of advice that few people seem to know. Go to Google, click on the
groups link, find rec.bicycles.tech and search the group with "clinchers tubulars" as your keywords.
You'll probably find a couple of hundred threads and thousands of posts from the last couple of
years and all the opinions you could want. In ten minutes you'll be sick of the topic! ;-)

 

[S. Anderson]

Well put. I used them once, long ago, because they were "the thing to have". Tried to repair one
flat and they quickly became the thing NOT to have IMHO. Just before that time, TURBO S/Avocet
Fasgrip tires came out and I switched and never looked back. Nothing like screaming down some
switchbacks wondering if that tub is going to roll off...

Cheers,

Scott..
--
Scott Anderson

"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> This has been beaten to death here many times before.
>
> If one tests for straight-line rolling resistance, tubs will come up
short.
> The dramatic overall decrease in weight has been poo-poohed by the crowd
and
> tubs' wonderful feel in a corner cannot be quantified. So, if you are looking for a definitive
> answer, you won't get it here.
>
> If you want to try a set of tubs for TT, using the wheels as "event
wheels"
> I think that's a reasonble thing.
>
> Others, convinced it's an accomodation to superstition, will tell you to
use
> clinchers and get on with life instead of spending Friday evenings with a sewing kit.
>
> Here's the downside: http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html
>
> YMMV.
> --
> Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
>
> Lastly can anyone recommend a good Tubular for Time Trialing, I have been looking at the Vittoria
> Crono CS, but I have seen mixed reviews on Vittoria tyres?
>

http://www.sportaid.com/page32.htm

Panaracers are very nice and wear well.

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 05:01:28 -0500, Psyron wrote:

> Forgive me if this is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am interested in people's opinions
> of Tubular tyres compared to clinchers. The reason I ask is I am about to start my second season
> of Time Trials and am thinking about changing the wheels on my bike. I am currently using Shimano
> 105 16 spokes which are OK, but I would like to go over to 3 or 4 spoke wheels or maybe even a
> rear disk. Being unable to afford the new price of these wheels, I have been scouring the
> classified ads and have found several at a reasonable price, but they are all take Tubular tyres.

There is a reason people are dumping tubular wheels. Tires are hard to find, and of poor general
quality when compared with the same outlay for clinchers. Flats are more, not less, frequent, and
more difficult to repair.

If this were 1972 and Clement silks were still available for a reasonable price, the discussion
would be different. But it isn't.
>
> I have never used Tubulars before as they seemed like hard work compared to clinchers, but is this
> actually true? How difficult are they to mount on the rims,

that is not really a problem, once you get used to working with glue and if you pre-stretch
your tires.

> if you get a puncture along the roadside will you be able to change the tyre, do punctured tyres
>still have to be repaired at a bike shop?

Of course you can change a tire on the road. That is usually quicker than with clinchers --- but you
get more practice. I don't know about this "still have to be repaired at a bike shop". I always
repaired my own tires, and if you were to go to these tubular wheels, it would be to your advantage
to learn how to repair them yourself, also.

>
> Is there any reason why these high end Time Trial wheels all seem to be Tubulars, is there any
> advantage to using them in a race situation?

The ones that are for sale, used, cheap are all tubulars because people are giving up on
tubular tires.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a _`\(,_ | conclusion. --
George Bernard Shaw (_)/ (_) |

 

[Dave Mayer]

"Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:1UH5a.6492$Lq.493347@stones...
> Forgive me if this is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am
interested
> in people's opinions of Tubular tyres compared to clinchers.

I ride tubulars most of the time now. I gave up on them about 10 years ago, but I missed the ride
and the light weight of the wheels. Having flats on clinchers also scared me - specifically
despirately trying to slow to a stop while a deflated tire is squirming away on a rim. Properly
mounted tubulars are much more predictable while ridden flat.

Whats changed: in a word: SLIME.

I put 10mm (10 grams worth) of Slime tire sealant in my rear (only) tire. To do this, you must get
the higher quality models that have removable valve cores. Then, I ride them until they are worn
down to the cords. Most flats you never notice. The bigger flats cause partial deflation, but the
slime fills in the gaps and you re-pressure the tire. I once had a roofers staple (shaped like a
two-pronged nail) go completely through my rear tire. It entered the tread at an angle, and exited
the tire through the sidewall leaving 4 punctures. The tire hissed for a while, then deflated. I
rotated the tire so that the slime collected at the puncture, and waited a minute. I then
repressured the tire, and rode away. This doesn't work as well on clinchers, as the Slime tends to
leak out between the tube and the inside of the tire.

Another advantage of tubulars: wheels are cheap. I have never paid more than $30 for a complete
tubular wheelset (Campy Record). I generally get them for free.

Finally, you can get tubular wheels with very light rims. The curent fad in wheels is low-spoke
count aero models. To make up for the lower spoking and the deep profile, the rims have to be
laterally stiff, and are therefore heavy. My favorite wheels have Fiamme GEL 280 rims, with 36 DT
Revolution spokes. Very light, easy to true, and if you break a spoke, you don't have to worry about
suddently landing on your head.

I now ride 250 gram tubulars on sub-300 gram rims, with little concern about flats - I love it.

 

[Darren Mercer]

"Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:1UH5a.6492$Lq.493347@stones...

Here is a neat summary of all the arguments;
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/section-12.html

My favorite part;

"Clinchers - can be difficult to change (for mechanical morons)"

DM

 

[Mike S.]

"S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well put. I used them once, long ago, because they were "the thing to have". Tried to repair one
> flat and they quickly became the thing NOT to have IMHO. Just before that time, TURBO S/Avocet
> Fasgrip tires came out
and
> I switched and never looked back. Nothing like screaming down some switchbacks wondering if that
> tub is going to roll off...

Yeah, but he's asking about TTs which are usually flat and straight. I saw my first tubular roll off
today in Yuma's North End Classic crit. Older guy riding new carbon wheels (brand unknown) was going
into the corner before the hill and ate it hard. He was either otb or otf (I'm betting otb...) so
noone else went down.

At the other end of the straight, I saw several guys in the front third of the pack with clinchers
do something funky and immediately slide out. These crashes took out multiple riders.

My point: rolling tubies is bad, but so is doing something stupid in the middle of a corner while
riding clinchers

.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Scott..
> --
> Scott Anderson
>
>
> "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > This has been beaten to death here many times before.
> >
> > If one tests for straight-line rolling resistance, tubs will come up
> short.
> > The dramatic overall decrease in weight has been poo-poohed by the crowd
> and
> > tubs' wonderful feel in a corner cannot be quantified. So, if you are looking for a definitive
> > answer, you won't get it here.
> >
> > If you want to try a set of tubs for TT, using the wheels as "event
> wheels"
> > I think that's a reasonble thing.
> >
> > Others, convinced it's an accomodation to superstition, will tell you to
> use
> > clinchers and get on with life instead of spending Friday evenings with
a
> > sewing kit.
> >
> > Here's the downside: http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html
> >
> > YMMV.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
> >
>

 

[Bfd]

"Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<1UH5a.6492$Lq.493347@stones>...
> Forgive me if this is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am interested in people's opinions
> of Tubular tyres compared to clinchers. The reason I ask is I am about to start my second season
> of Time Trials and am thinking about changing the wheels on my bike. I am currently using Shimano
> 105 16 spokes which are OK, but I would like to go over to 3 or 4 spoke wheels or maybe even a
> rear disk. Being unable to afford the new price of these wheels, I have been scouring the
> classified ads and have found several at a reasonable price, but they are all take Tubular tyres.
>
> I have never used Tubulars before as they seemed like hard work compared to clinchers, but is this
> actually true? How difficult are they to mount on the rims, if you get a puncture along the
> roadside will you be able to change the tyre, do punctured tyres still have to be repaired at a
> bike shop?
>
> Is there any reason why these high end Time Trial wheels all seem to be Tubulars, is there any
> advantage to using them in a race situation?
>
> Lastly can anyone recommend a good Tubular for Time Trialing, I have been looking at the Vittoria
> Crono CS, but I have seen mixed reviews on Vittoria tyres?
>
> Sorry to ask so many questions, but this is a completely new subject to me and I would be
> interested in anyone's advice or opinions.

OK, I'll bite, as someone who is "PRO-CHOICE", I will protect my right and those of thousands of
others to choose - the right to use tubulars! I don't use tubulars, never will, but I will fight to
protect the right of those who
do. Yes, it may be wrong (what do you do when you get more flats than the number of tires you
carry?) Yes, it may be messy (all that glue...), and Yes, you need to know how to sew (ugh,
butterfingers...) But those who "choose" to ride tubular have the same rights as the rest of us
and hey, if they believe it gives them an "advantage", they might as well learn how to remove
and replace them, safely...In contrast, all those "right to lifers" are always screaming about
the horrors and dangers of tubulars rolling off the rim or glue melting on long descents causing
massive death and destruction to the unwary clincher users. These "right to lifers" are always
saying "abstinence" is the only way to stop the usage of tubulars....But let's not forget, there
will always be people who ride tubulars, whether its legal or not, moral or not, therefore, in
order to protect the rights and safety of not only tubular users but all cyclist everywhere, it
needs to be legal and safe....Brewster "roll v. walk" Fong

 

[Heinz Getzler]

"Psyron" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<1UH5a.6492$Lq.493347@stones>...
> Forgive me if this is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but I am interested in people's opinions
> of Tubular tyres compared to clinchers. The reason I ask is I am about to start my second season
> of Time Trials and am thinking about changing the wheels on my bike. I am currently using Shimano
> 105 16 spokes which are OK, but I would like to go over to 3 or 4 spoke wheels or maybe even a
> rear disk. Being unable to afford the new price of these wheels, I have been scouring the
> classified ads and have found several at a reasonable price, but they are all take Tubular tyres.
>
> I have never used Tubulars before as they seemed like hard work compared to clinchers, but is this
> actually true? How difficult are they to mount on the rims, if you get a puncture along the
> roadside will you be able to change the tyre, do punctured tyres still have to be repaired at a
> bike shop?
>
> Is there any reason why these high end Time Trial wheels all seem to be Tubulars, is there any
> advantage to using them in a race situation?
>
> Lastly can anyone recommend a good Tubular for Time Trialing, I have been looking at the Vittoria
> Crono CS, but I have seen mixed reviews on Vittoria tyres?
>
> Sorry to ask so many questions, but this is a completely new subject to me and I would be
> interested in anyone's advice or opinions.

For a complete discussion: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=78t4-
ps%244jg%241%40nnrp1.dejanews.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dvolcano%2Btubulars%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26-
ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D78t4ps%25244jg%25241%2540nnrp1.dejanews.com%26rnum%3D1