Tubular glue Removal

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Curb, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Curb

    Curb New Member

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    Hi does anyone have any current updated methods/process for removing Vittorria Mastik glue from zipp carbon rim. Please don’t tell me about the recommended Zipp Goof Off glue removal. That stuff just gums everything up and gets all over the place and it takes forever to break down the glue. If someone got a safe method so I don’t destroy a 1 month old zipp carbon rim it would be appreciated.
    I want to remove the Vittora glue and add the Tufo extreme tape. I am getting tire of messy gluing process. The Tufo tape works well enough.
    I wonder what the Pros Teams use. They got to have some kind of special method. Anyone knows?
     
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  2. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Call Vittoria's helpline and see what they say...
     
  3. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Just for your reference, the more tires you glue up, the less you MAY-or-MAY-NOT use depending on the type of riding you plan to do ...

    As I've stated numerous times, I am a minimalist with regard to gluing up my sew-ups because I am NOT racing & I am the one who ultimately has to clean the rims.

    FYI. The TUFO tape is apparently more difficult to remove than an excess amount of old glue on the rim.

    BTW. If you don't have the patience to deal with the process of gluing up the tires (which involves prepping the rim) then you probably shouldn't be riding on sew-ups.
     
  4. Curb

    Curb New Member

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    Afend, you seem to be a rude person or you just dont know how to write with style.
    First of all, I know how to glue these tubular both aluminum Rims and Carbon. I was looking for updated tips on removing the glue. In my opinion, I think the Wheel Mfg and the Tire Mfg and those tire mfg that make the glues should by now have developed a process and a safe quick way to remove this tough hard glues that don't damage their products. Basically the mfg are saying, here the glue, glue the tires and it's your problem to get the glue off the rim. It think it's irresponsible for them to do that these days. When you call zipp, they are very reluctant in giving you confident advice for removing the glue from their rims. You got to agree, its stupid sitting there for over 2-3 hours trying to remove glue from a rim the cost over $2K.
     
  5. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    I presume by your diatribe that you are looking for a reply ... so, here goes:

    Well, perhaps I am rude ...

    And, perhaps I don't write with style!?!

    If suggesting that if a person (i.e., you) who may not have the patience to deal with the process of gluing up the tires because they/(you, again) don't want to deal with the rim prep and so you possibly shouldn't be riding sew-ups is rude, then you may be right!

    Is this, as Obama would say, a teachable moment?

    Clearly, 'I' am incapable of learning anything new with regard to gluing up sew-ups at this point in time because I already buy into alienator's reply (in a duplicate thread that you started) that you can use Acetone (not my choice) as one of the possible solvents to remove the glue; so, maybe YOU can be the one who benefit from this immediate thread ...

    So, let me say it another time ...

    You can either follow the conventional wisdom (nothing necessarily wrong with that, BTW) of putting a 'ton' of glue on a tubular rim and then deal with its subsequent removal OR you can learn to use progressively less glue each time you glue up a set of sew-ups until you determine the actual amount of glue you truly need to use to keep the tire on the rim for the type of riding you are doing ...

    To distort a well known phrase: Glue on ... glue off.

    Regardless, I do NOT agree that "its stupid sitting there for over 2-3 hours trying to remove glue from a rim the cost over $2K." ...

    What I think is stupid is to suppose that the glue should come off more easily just because the wheels "cost over $2K" BECAUSE if the glue can come off, then so can/(will) the tire!

    So, do you really still think that you know how to glue up your tires OR were you just having a Winnie-the-Pooh momemnt?
     
  6. Curb

    Curb New Member

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    Man, this is why I hate posting sometimes. Dude, you didn't even read what I posted. You're just rambling on and on. Here, I'll post it again: Then reply again without attacking me

    I was looking for updated tips on removing the glue. In my opinion, I think the Wheel Mfg and the Tire Mfg and those tire mfg that make the glues should by now (2009) have developed a process and a safe quick way to remove this tough hard glue that don't damage their products. Basically the mfg are saying, here the glue, glue the tires and it's your problem to get the glue off the rim. It think it's irresponsible for them to do that these days. When you call zipp, they are very reluctant in giving you confident advice for removing the glue from their rims. You got to agree, its stupid sitting there for over 2-3 hours trying to remove glue from a rim the cost over $2K.

    For example look at TUFO what they've came out with. The Tape method. Not the best thing but it's new technology.

    IT'S TIME FOR AN UPGRADE TO THE TUBULAR GLUING AND REMOVING PROCESS/METHOD!!!

    I done!




     
  7. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Dude,

    I read what you wrote ...

    I'm sorry about your frustration, but you should consider that YOU are apparently one of the few people, if not the only person, fretting over tubular rim glue & its removal due to an inability to clean his/her rims as easily as you would like ... it IS a part of the process which you should have known since you declared that you know how to glue up sew-up tires.

    Basically, contact cement is contact cement regardless of how thick it is or how it looks when you squeeze it out of a tube or brush it from a can ...

    If the glue were an issue for TEAM MECHANICS who need to deal with the equivalent of more than a hundred wheelsets over the course of a Stage race vs. your one wheelset, then one can suppose that if there were an alternative glue & remover it would have been requested & developed ... and, it would be available to the general public.

    Maybe things should be different, but they aren't ...

    So, LET ME SAY IT MORE DIRECTLY ... based on your description, you are apparently using too much glue when you glue up your tires.

    Whether or not you think that TUFO tape is the answer-to-your-prayers, you should have bought it & used it before you glued up your high-zoot wheelset BECAUSE it has been available for years ...

    So, after you finally clean off your ZIPP rims, you should use the TUFO tape and then you can echo your complaint by declaring that TUFO tape should never have been brought to the market until they figured out an easier way to remove it.

    BTW. If you've glued up alloy rims before, then you must know how easy-or-difficult it is to remove the old glue, too; or, did you only buy those other tubular wheels earlier this season AND did you think that something happened between then & now?

    It's too bad that in your wannabee rush to buy wheels you can afford but don't understand that you have found yourself in a situation you aren't mature enough to deal with.

    FYI. The current UPGRADE in technology which is in-use-and-development is the tubeless wheel-and-tire combination ...
     
  8. Curb

    Curb New Member

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    Alright Alfeng, enough. I give up. You win!

    I remember when Microsoft did away with the old DOS operating system. I was so happy that the windows operating system came about and boy did I learn a lot and it was very easy for me to use and get things done.

    But there were many older guys in my company that like and accepted the old DOS version and did not want to embrace the new technology. It was very difficult for them to change over. They were stuck in their old ways....they were hoping that it never caught on. I also think there are older guys that use something call vinyl records….


     
  9. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Wow. How did my name come up all the way over here? Jeez.

    With respect to the rag method, soaking in mineral spirits or some other solvent would likely be bit better than Acetone, since Acetone is so volatile (i.e., evaporates at room temp easily) that it might evaporate from a rag before soaking the glue much. With other solvents, you'll be able to soak a rag, and let it sit on a section of rim for a minute or two to soften the glue.

    Or.......

    Use a hair dryer to soften the glue, and follow behind with a plastic knife to scrape the softened glue up. This works pretty well for large amounts of glue, but it still needs to be followed up with solvent on the rim to clean off what's left.

    Or.......

    You could try the legendary "Belgian method" and just lay the tape down on top of the glue. Me don't think that's a good idea though.

    Or.......

    You'll hate this one: apply a thin layer of glue to the rim. The glue will soften the glue beneath because that's what happens when you add coats of glue. Then you may find it easier to remove the old glue. Note: this does require you to futz with fresh glue.

    I don't know what tires you're going to be using with the tape, but keep in mind that tires with a large seam under the base tape, like Vittoria tires, don't bond as well as other tires with the tape's adhesive. That seam prevents the outer edges of the base tape/tire from bonding near the rim's edge. Vulcanize tubulars......Tufo.....Schwalbe...some Conti's........don't have that issue.

    No matter how you choose to remove glue, it's best to resign yourself to having to spend a chunk of time doing it.
     
  10. Curb

    Curb New Member

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    Thanks Alenator appreciate the information. However, one of the guys I train with knows a guy who is simi pro and put me in contact with one of their mechanic. This Bike mechanic gave me an excellent tip on removing the old glue and it comes off like butter and does not damaged the rime and it took me only one hour to complete and it was not messy at all and there the product I used was not smelly.

    It's a new process this team mechanic has developed to remove vittoria glue from carbon rims.
    I tried it this weekend and was super happy. It cleaned the rim really well. I had to use a lot of rags but I only had to wipe the rim circumference twice. I didn’t even have to cover up the decals.

    I now have a method I would like to release it on the site but some older guys in this forum might be upset that there is now an update process

    I originally made a mistake a posted my question in the mountain bike section. I will post this new process in the road bike section soon. When you see how it’s done and what you use, everyone will be kicking themselves in the butts!
    See you in the bike section!

     
  11. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    The cost of the rim has nothing to do with it. The 'problem' lies with the glue, however, when you're dealing with a substance which is supposed to hold your tires on when you're descending a mountain at warp9 with endless hairpin bends, you expect it to stick and stick hard. If it doesn't your ass in off the edge of the road and 500ft down the ravine... Unfortunately, that 'stick' makes it difficult to get off. You can't have it both ways.

    This is just another one of those "I should have thought about this before buying the $3000 wheels that Pros use" moments. At least with aluminum rims you can use a curved chisel to get most of the stuff off but I'd be damned if I'd used that on carbon rims - then again I'd be damned if I'm buying a set of carbon rims.
     
  12. sewupnut

    sewupnut New Member

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    Since I ride an old 86 Stumpjumper (sometimes), I'll reply here.

    Used to buy a product named CARE rim cement remover, and it worked great, even on the old red stuff. A little like mineral spirits, but didn't smell.

    I have one can left and think I'll get it analyzed so I can make it myself and sell it to you guys. Just got done gluing a couple of Velo-Flex's on a pair of Reynolds MV's
    using Vittoria mastik. Cleaned off glue smudges with it - easily!

    Anyway, I've not found another solution that comes close to CARE.
    Performance sold it back in the early 80's. You find this stuff, problem solved.

    As an alternate, I've used Fast Tack which is removed easily
    with lacquer thinner. Not tried Fast Tack with carbon rims, though.

    I've heard Tufo Tape mentioned. I wouldn't ride a criterium with it, even with tires it is designed for. Just me as I'm too old to suffer the consequences of rolling a tire.

    For me, the"inconvenience" of dealing with tubulars is more than offset by the ride.
    In more years than I can count, I've owned two sets of clinchers (road) One set
    is 27", tandem weight that I've commuted about 100,000 miles on (and still do).
    But on training days, the old Mavic GL330's go on the commuter for a long hard ride home through the foothills.

    sun
     
  13. lcmarrero

    lcmarrero New Member

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    Curb,

    I've also been frustrated at glue removal. What method finnally worked for you.

    thanks

    LouM
     
  14. forgie

    forgie New Member

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    try working away at it with a razor blade. just watch the fingers. :eek:
     
  15. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Uhm, no. A razor blade is the worst thing you could use, short of a wood chipper.

    [​IMG]

    I believe Zipp recommends Goo Gone.
     
  16. forgie

    forgie New Member

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    oh sorry about that then. i don't use tubulars but watched a guy in a bikeshop doing it with a razorblade last week. thanks for the correction
     
  17. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    It can be terrifying seeing some of the stuff that's done in some bike shops.....not all......but there are some that are truly scary.....
     
  18. rparedes

    rparedes New Member

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    Have you tried applying heat? (heat gun... like to remove paint) maybe try experimenting on a piece of metal or carbon first... my guess is the glue is kind of a contact type cement... just throwing this out there so... don't trust me on this one. I DO NOT HAVE TUBULARS but have been doing research to see if that is what i want in the future...
    Hope it helps
     
  19. 6061-T6

    6061-T6 New Member

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    For cleaning tubular tire glue off of aluminum rims I use "Citra-Solv" (www.citra-solv.com) "Natural Cleaner and Degreaser" which is an orange peel oil based water soluble cleaner. It takes an hour and a half of repeated applications, rubbing and rinsing to get all of the dried glue dissolved in the cleaner, and then dissolved in the water and washed off of the rim but it definitely does a thorough job.

    The first step is to spray a few drops of Citra-Solv WITHOUT WATER to the dried rim cement between two spoke holes and rub it a few times with your finger and / or finger nail and go around the rim doing one section at a time. By the time you get to the starting section the top surface of glue has softened up a little so you spray a few more drops on (WITHOUT WATER) and rub some more and go around the rim again. You will need to go around the rim at least eight times this way to get the glue completely dissolved in the Citra-Solv. At this point you will have created a real sticky mess on the rim, spokes and your hands. The second phase is to dissolve this sticky mess into water, it will not just rinse of with a hose. So spray a LITTLE water on a section or two and spray some Citra-Solv into the water and rub a few times. Notice that the Citra-Solv / water mixture turns white, which is an indication that the Citra-Solv is dissolving in the water and not just separating and gumming up. After you go around the rim each time rinse it off with a hose. You will need to go around the rim probably another eight times repeating this water first, Citra-Solv second, then rub and rinse routine. The final step is to use a small sponge with Citra-Solv dissolved in water to get the last of the sticky feel removed and then do a final rinse off with a hose.

    Avoid getting the cleaner on the decals on your rim because it can damage or remove them. I have not tried this process on graphite / epoxy (carbon) rims.
    [​IMG]
     
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