tubular tire question

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Stefan Pavlik, Mar 30, 2003.

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  1. Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
    there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?
     
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  2. spavlik-<< Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the
    extra effort?

    There are to me, I love their 'ride'-

    << What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?

    Roll up a pre glued spare under your saddle...

    I have flated twice on rides only 3 times in 18 years..

    << Is there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

    Don't know but starting here is a good place to start-

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  3. David Ornee

    David Ornee Guest

    "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
    > there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

    I don't think they are worth the additional hassle.

    David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
     
  4. Harris

    Harris Guest

    "Stefan Pavlik" wrote:
    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?

    I used sew-ups for a while in the '80s, but switched back to clinchers. Yes, you can change a sew-up
    on the road. But on long rides, you really need to carry two spares. The gluing is a mess, repairing
    flats is a hassle, and there is a tendency for sew-ups to "creep" on descents due to heat buidup.

    Add to all that the cost of new tubular wheels, and I think the decision is a no brainer.

    Art Harris
     
  5. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > spavlik-<< Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires.
    Are
    > they worth the extra effort?
    >
    > There are to me, I love their 'ride'-
    >
    > << What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?
    >
    > Roll up a pre glued spare under your saddle...
    >
    > I have flated twice on rides only 3 times in 18 years..
    >
    > << Is there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?
    >
    > Don't know but starting here is a good place to start-
    >

    Don't listen to Peter!! He's an old-school crank!! ;-) Seriously though, I rode tubulars for years
    too but I converted (in both senses..) to clinchers after the better-quality clinchers started to
    become widely available. I just got tired of the glue mess and the difficulty of patching tubulars.
    Honestly, I know what Peter is talking about as far as the feel of tubulars, but for me, the
    cleanliness of clinchers made the difference for me. There is not enough upside with tubulars to
    make me put up with the mess. I worked in a shop for years and my most hated job (next to installing
    baby-seats and fenders..) was installing tubulars, so maybe I have a hate-thing going for me for
    something that the average do-it-yourselfer might find nifty and old-worldly. They are fairly quick
    to change in the event of flatting (just rip off the old, jam on the new..) but for me, I can change
    a clincher tube just as fast..well maybe not quite as fast. And patching a tubular involves ripping
    off the base-tape, cutting the stitches, pulling the tube out, patching, resewing and re-gluing the
    base tape. And if the patch fails to work, you have to do the whole exercise again. And if you don't
    get the stitching just right, you're riding a bike that feels like Schuey's Ferrari after a 4-wheel
    lock up for 500' at 200mph.....ka-thunk..ka-thunk...ka-thunk. Again, for me, I'd rather be doing
    other things. But I'll tell ya, no wheels rode as nice as my 32h Fiamme Red Labels with my silk
    Vittoria sew-ups...maybe it's not measurable, but they sure were nice to ride.

    Cheers!

    Scott..
     
  6. Mark

    Mark Guest

    The tire creep on long descents (only if you use the brakes) and the improvements in clinchers led
    me to switch to clinchers.
    --
    mark

    "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
    > there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?
     
  7. Stefan,

    forget it. They are a pain in the ass.

    I changed when Michelin Hilites came out and that's about 1986 or so.
     
  8. Jeff Martin

    Jeff Martin Guest

    I have both clinchers and tubulars. I use my clinchers early season when the roads in Wisconsin are
    full of sand and junk but switch to my tubulars around late April or so after we have had some good
    rain storm and the street sweepers have been out. I've bin riding tubulars for over 30 years and
    have never had a tire "creep" on the rim. You guys must not glue the correctly. I like the ride and
    feel of tubulars enough to deal with having the gluing and other minor hassles. That said I have a
    pair of Veloflex Paves waiting to go on and they may change my mind. I would love to try a pair of
    Dughast tubulars, anyone know when to get a pair? I don't race anymore just like to ride hard and
    feel fast............. "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
    > there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?
     
  9. On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:42:55 -0500, Stefan Pavlik wrote:

    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?

    No.

    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?

    You can replace the tire if you have a spare with you. So, you call home at the (n+1)st flat,
    where n is the number of spares you carry. Then you get to spend about 1/2 hour per flat patching
    and sewing.

    There are those who wax nostalgic when contemplating tubular tires, the ride, the feel, the
    legendary durability. But good clinchers have the same ride/feel (try avocets, really), and the
    durability is really a thing of legend more than reality. Also, most tubulars now cannot compare to
    those we remember from the good old days.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
    Tomlin (_)/ (_) |
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
    > there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

    There will be merciless criticism I'm sure, but many of us still ride tubs and prefer them for
    various reasons. Ideally, one pulls off the punctured tubular and stretches another over the
    still-tacky rim cement, saving the repair for another time. That process is quick and easy, repair
    less so, compared to inner tube type (wire-ons, clinchers, demountables, semantically varied) tires.

    Regarding repair, http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html

    Famously, tubulars have higher rolling resistance than some types of clinchers in some types of
    testing so you cannot say they are "better" but there is a difference in "road feel" that either
    matters or not to you. I am not going to proselytize here but I ride 'em and they work just fine.

    Overall weight of tub rim/tires is much lower at every comparable level, which isn't a big deal but
    it is true. Pricing varies wildly but neither is certainly superior in that regard. There just isn't
    a categorical "best" IMHO.
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  11. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:
    >>Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > No.

    Agreed. I have used both, with several seasons on sewups.

    >> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?
    > You can replace the tire if you have a spare with you. So, you call home at the (n+1)st flat,
    > where n is the number of spares you carry.

    Years ago I rode twice with a fellow student riding sewups, for whom "n" was zero. I warned him this
    was a bad idea. I must have had clinchers on that particular bike. On both rides he flatted at the
    farthest point from home. On the first ride, I had brought a spare sewup of my own, "just in case."
    The second time, I made a phone call for him when I got home (this was before cell phones).

    It was a very educational experience for both of us.

    --
    Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply
     
  12. dornee-<< http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

    I don't think they are worth the additional hassle.

    You or Sheldon?

    I see no compelling reason for me to switch from tubulars to clinchers. For me the glue and repair
    thing is just no big deal...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  13. we xc-<< I would love to try a pair of Dughast tubulars, anyone know where to get a pair?

    we have them-

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  14. david-<< But good clinchers have the same ride/feel (try avocets, really), and the durability is
    really a thing of legend more than reality. Also, most tubulars now cannot compare to those we
    remember from the good old days.

    Saying that the quality of todays tubies is a reason not to try them is not a reason. Also when
    evrything is equal, tire pressure, quality, etc. tubies are less prone to pinch flats and will not
    roll off if flattened..

    To say that an Avocet rides as good as a same priced tubie is fantasy.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  15. "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
    > there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

    I personally don't think sewups are worth the bother any more. Years ago clinchers were not nearly
    as good as they are today and now high quality sewups are very dear.

    When you flat on the road you can rip the old tire off and stretch a new one on. There will be some
    stick left in to old glue so between that and the pressure in the tire it will get you home
    (remember not to take any hard corners until you have a properly glued tire though!).

    I always had fewer flats on sewups than on clinchers. I used to average one flat/1,000 miles on
    sewups but I average a flat every 250 miles on high performance clinchers with light weight tubes.
    I've never had two flats on a ride with sewups but this has happened to me several times with
    clinchers. Of course fixing a flat with a clincher is an under 10 minute process while repairing a
    punctured sewup takes about an hour.

    best, Bruce
    --
    Bruce Jackson - Sr. Systems Programmer - DMSP, a M/A/R/C Group company
     
  16. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
    > What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
    > there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?
    >
    >

    If you go on over to rec.bicycles.marketplace, there's a guy over there selling a pair of D/A/GL330
    wheels for not a lot. Try them out for yourself rather than listening to a bunch of wankers on the
    internet that you don't know from Adam.

    Tubulars have pros and cons just like anything else. Whether the pros outweigh the cons is entirely
    up to you.

    My 'cross bike has a pair of tubular race wheels with Tufo tires glued on them. 'Cross and track
    seem to be the last holdouts of tubular tires. I've been running the Tufo 190g tires on 404 wheels
    at the track, and love the combo.

    Once upon a time, when I was first starting to ride, lots more people had tubulars on a regular
    basis. Back then, if you brought one tubular, someone else probably had another in case you flatted
    twice. Nowadays, someone riding tubulars is getting rarer and rarer, making multiple flats a "call
    the wife" situation.

    The one thing I'll tell in parting, learn to glue tires yourself. Preferably learn from someone that
    has been around for a while. Since I learned what happens when you roll a tubular, I don't trust
    just anyone to glue them on for me.

    Mike
     
  17. John Carrier

    John Carrier Guest

    The best line I've heard is that riding tubies is like driving a comvertible on a sunny spring day.

    Seriously, the best tubies DO ride better, but the difference between great tubies and great
    clinchers is less than it was 20 years ago. Mounting them is no big deal. Repairing them is, but
    it's not rocket science. I used to save them for racing and special rides. Now I ride them almost
    exclusively.

    R / John
     
  18. On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:36:54 -0500, Tom Paterson wrote:

    > In all fairness, twice in the last 19 years or so, I've cut clincher tires.

    No readon we can't carry a spare clincher tire, though not many do on a day ride because the odds of
    an unrepairable cut are small.

    Last week, some not-so-smooth rider I was with paniced on a steep downhill and locked up his rear
    wheel. Dime-size hole through the tread and casing.

    We repaired it with a "boot" I had made from an old silk tire, and it got him home.

    I have to say that the belief that tubulars don't flat as much as clinchers does not square with my
    experience. In fact, it's been quite the opposite. Since I went to clinchers 3 years ago or so, I
    have had two rides with more than one flat. One when I used, naively, too-skinny rim tape, and the
    other was a miserable rainy day when I managed to pick up loads of glass. Before, with tubulars, I
    always had two spares -- since of course the chance of anyone else having one is nil -- and more
    than once still had to get rescued. Flats were simply a regular occurrence, one that vanished when
    I went to clinchers. When I was riding tubulars, chances are that, if there was a flat, it was me.
    No longer.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |
     
  19. Bob Shanteau

    Bob Shanteau Guest

    "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...

    > Is there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

    See this article for a description of the advantages of tubulars, recommendations on gluing
    procedure and performance of various brands of glues:

    http://www.engr.ukans.edu/~ktl/bicycle/Tubular.html

    The article recommends brushing 3 layers of glue on a new rim and 1 on the tire; mount tire when the
    last layer of the rim is still tacky. I find that to be overkill; many of us use 1 layer on the rim
    and 1 on the tire.

    Vittoria Mastik One glue performs better than other glues when the rims get hot. I suspect that
    people who have had trouble with glue melting from braking on downhill runs may have been using
    Tubasti glue, which is particularly susceptible to heat.

    I rolled a couple of tires 30 years ago when throwing my bike back and forth in sprints. That was
    before I learned how to glue tires on right; I've never rolled one since, despite still throwing the
    bike around a lot. It is sideways force on the tire that will tend to cause it to roll. There is not
    much sideways force on a tire in normal riding unless you happen to ride across a longitudinal ridge
    in the pavement when cornering. That's why you glue the tire on well.

    I weigh 210 lbs and find the biggest problem I have is breaking cords. If you are heavy, you may
    want to try a larger diameter tire than the typical 21 mm.

    Several of the good inexpensive tires these days look like they are made in some factory in
    Thailand: Gommitalia Champion, Vittoria Rally, and d'Alessandro. You can find 21 mm Vittoria Rally
    tires for as little as $12 each plus shipping:

    http://www.ital-tecno.com/components_main.htm

    Another source that sells tubular tires cheap and in quantity is

    http://www.labicicletta.com/wheels.html

    Andrew Muzi has a "pair and a spare" of d'Alessandro tires for $50 plus shipping. I have one on my
    front wheel right now. So far it is working very well.

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/d'aless.html

    At these prices, I don't find it economical to repair tubular tires.

    Tufo tires are excellent but more expensive. Tufo makes a sealant you can squirt inside the tire
    that takes care of small punctures (a staple, or a small piece of glass, for example). This is an
    excellent alternative to repairing tires if you use more expensive tires. I have a Tufo S2 on my
    rear wheel right now that I bought from "Euroteki":

    http://www.geocities.com/euroteki/tires.htm#Tubular

    I still carry a spare tire, even when using the sealant. I haven't had 2 flats on a ride since I
    foolishly tried to jump a couple of cattle guards during a ride down the back side of Mt. Hamilton
    near San Jose many years ago. I broke some cords on each of the tires I was using.

    Bob Shanteau
     
  20. Mike Shaw-<< Tubulars have pros and cons just like anything else. Whether the pros outweigh the cons
    is entirely up to you.

    Well said, Personal experience is the best(" how does titanium ride?")...I just wish people that
    talk of tubies would use factual information...not-'quality of today's tubies is awful', or 'hard to
    find and expensive' type crap....

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
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