tubular tire question

[Stefan Pavlik]

Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

spavlik-<< Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the
extra effort?

There are to me, I love their 'ride'-

<< What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?

Roll up a pre glued spare under your saddle...

I have flated twice on rides only 3 times in 18 years..

<< Is there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

Don't know but starting here is a good place to start-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[David Ornee]

"Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
> there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

I don't think they are worth the additional hassle.

David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

 

[Harris]

"Stefan Pavlik" wrote:
> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?

I used sew-ups for a while in the '80s, but switched back to clinchers. Yes, you can change a sew-up
on the road. But on long rides, you really need to carry two spares. The gluing is a mess, repairing
flats is a hassle, and there is a tendency for sew-ups to "creep" on descents due to heat buidup.

Add to all that the cost of new tubular wheels, and I think the decision is a no brainer.

Art Harris

 

[S. Anderson]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> spavlik-<< Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires.
Are
> they worth the extra effort?
>
> There are to me, I love their 'ride'-
>
> << What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?
>
> Roll up a pre glued spare under your saddle...
>
> I have flated twice on rides only 3 times in 18 years..
>
> << Is there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?
>
> Don't know but starting here is a good place to start-
>

Don't listen to Peter!! He's an old-school crank!! ;-) Seriously though, I rode tubulars for years
too but I converted (in both senses..) to clinchers after the better-quality clinchers started to
become widely available. I just got tired of the glue mess and the difficulty of patching tubulars.
Honestly, I know what Peter is talking about as far as the feel of tubulars, but for me, the
cleanliness of clinchers made the difference for me. There is not enough upside with tubulars to
make me put up with the mess. I worked in a shop for years and my most hated job (next to installing
baby-seats and fenders..) was installing tubulars, so maybe I have a hate-thing going for me for
something that the average do-it-yourselfer might find nifty and old-worldly. They are fairly quick
to change in the event of flatting (just rip off the old, jam on the new..) but for me, I can change
a clincher tube just as fast..well maybe not quite as fast. And patching a tubular involves ripping
off the base-tape, cutting the stitches, pulling the tube out, patching, resewing and re-gluing the
base tape. And if the patch fails to work, you have to do the whole exercise again. And if you don't
get the stitching just right, you're riding a bike that feels like Schuey's Ferrari after a 4-wheel
lock up for 500' at 200mph.....ka-thunk..ka-thunk...ka-thunk. Again, for me, I'd rather be doing
other things. But I'll tell ya, no wheels rode as nice as my 32h Fiamme Red Labels with my silk
Vittoria sew-ups...maybe it's not measurable, but they sure were nice to ride.

Cheers!

Scott..

 

[Mark]

The tire creep on long descents (only if you use the brakes) and the improvements in clinchers led
me to switch to clinchers.
--
mark

"Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
> there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

 

[GearóId Ó Laoi]

Stefan,

forget it. They are a pain in the ass.

I changed when Michelin Hilites came out and that's about 1986 or so.

 

[Jeff Martin]

I have both clinchers and tubulars. I use my clinchers early season when the roads in Wisconsin are
full of sand and junk but switch to my tubulars around late April or so after we have had some good
rain storm and the street sweepers have been out. I've bin riding tubulars for over 30 years and
have never had a tire "creep" on the rim. You guys must not glue the correctly. I like the ride and
feel of tubulars enough to deal with having the gluing and other minor hassles. That said I have a
pair of Veloflex Paves waiting to go on and they may change my mind. I would love to try a pair of
Dughast tubulars, anyone know when to get a pair? I don't race anymore just like to ride hard and
feel fast............. "Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
> there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:42:55 -0500, Stefan Pavlik wrote:

> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?

No.

> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?

You can replace the tire if you have a spare with you. So, you call home at the (n+1)st flat,
where n is the number of spares you carry. Then you get to spend about 1/2 hour per flat patching
and sewing.

There are those who wax nostalgic when contemplating tubular tires, the ride, the feel, the
legendary durability. But good clinchers have the same ride/feel (try avocets, really), and the
durability is really a thing of legend more than reality. Also, most tubulars now cannot compare to
those we remember from the good old days.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
Tomlin (_)/ (_) |

 

[A Muzi]

"Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
> there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

There will be merciless criticism I'm sure, but many of us still ride tubs and prefer them for
various reasons. Ideally, one pulls off the punctured tubular and stretches another over the
still-tacky rim cement, saving the repair for another time. That process is quick and easy, repair
less so, compared to inner tube type (wire-ons, clinchers, demountables, semantically varied) tires.

Regarding repair, http://www.yellowjersey.org/tubfix.html

Famously, tubulars have higher rolling resistance than some types of clinchers in some types of
testing so you cannot say they are "better" but there is a difference in "road feel" that either
matters or not to you. I am not going to proselytize here but I ride 'em and they work just fine.

Overall weight of tub rim/tires is much lower at every comparable level, which isn't a big deal but
it is true. Pricing varies wildly but neither is certainly superior in that regard. There just isn't
a categorical "best" IMHO.
--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

 

[Mark Janeba]

David L. Johnson wrote:
>>Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> No.

Agreed. I have used both, with several seasons on sewups.

>> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home?
> You can replace the tire if you have a spare with you. So, you call home at the (n+1)st flat,
> where n is the number of spares you carry.

Years ago I rode twice with a fellow student riding sewups, for whom "n" was zero. I warned him this
was a bad idea. I must have had clinchers on that particular bike. On both rides he flatted at the
farthest point from home. On the first ride, I had brought a spare sewup of my own, "just in case."
The second time, I made a phone call for him when I got home (this was before cell phones).

It was a very educational experience for both of us.

--
Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

dornee-<< http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

I don't think they are worth the additional hassle.

You or Sheldon?

I see no compelling reason for me to switch from tubulars to clinchers. For me the glue and repair
thing is just no big deal...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

we xc-<< I would love to try a pair of Dughast tubulars, anyone know where to get a pair?

we have them-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

david-<< But good clinchers have the same ride/feel (try avocets, really), and the durability is
really a thing of legend more than reality. Also, most tubulars now cannot compare to those we
remember from the good old days.

Saying that the quality of todays tubies is a reason not to try them is not a reason. Also when
evrything is equal, tire pressure, quality, etc. tubies are less prone to pinch flats and will not
roll off if flattened..

To say that an Avocet rides as good as a same priced tubie is fantasy.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Bruce Jackson]

"Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
> there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

I personally don't think sewups are worth the bother any more. Years ago clinchers were not nearly
as good as they are today and now high quality sewups are very dear.

When you flat on the road you can rip the old tire off and stretch a new one on. There will be some
stick left in to old glue so between that and the pressure in the tire it will get you home
(remember not to take any hard corners until you have a properly glued tire though!).

I always had fewer flats on sewups than on clinchers. I used to average one flat/1,000 miles on
sewups but I average a flat every 250 miles on high performance clinchers with light weight tubes.
I've never had two flats on a ride with sewups but this has happened to me several times with
clinchers. Of course fixing a flat with a clincher is an under 10 minute process while repairing a
punctured sewup takes about an hour.

best, Bruce
--
Bruce Jackson - Sr. Systems Programmer - DMSP, a M/A/R/C Group company

 

[Mike S.]

"Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Longtime clincher user and curious about tubular(sew-up) tires. Are they worth the extra effort?
> What if you flat on a ride, can you replace the tire or do you need to call for a ride home? Is
> there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?
>
>

If you go on over to rec.bicycles.marketplace, there's a guy over there selling a pair of D/A/GL330
wheels for not a lot. Try them out for yourself rather than listening to a bunch of wankers on the
internet that you don't know from Adam.

Tubulars have pros and cons just like anything else. Whether the pros outweigh the cons is entirely
up to you.

My 'cross bike has a pair of tubular race wheels with Tufo tires glued on them. 'Cross and track
seem to be the last holdouts of tubular tires. I've been running the Tufo 190g tires on 404 wheels
at the track, and love the combo.

Once upon a time, when I was first starting to ride, lots more people had tubulars on a regular
basis. Back then, if you brought one tubular, someone else probably had another in case you flatted
twice. Nowadays, someone riding tubulars is getting rarer and rarer, making multiple flats a "call
the wife" situation.

The one thing I'll tell in parting, learn to glue tires yourself. Preferably learn from someone that
has been around for a while. Since I learned what happens when you roll a tubular, I don't trust
just anyone to glue them on for me.

Mike

 

[John Carrier]

The best line I've heard is that riding tubies is like driving a comvertible on a sunny spring day.

Seriously, the best tubies DO ride better, but the difference between great tubies and great
clinchers is less than it was 20 years ago. Mounting them is no big deal. Repairing them is, but
it's not rocket science. I used to save them for racing and special rides. Now I ride them almost
exclusively.

R / John

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:36:54 -0500, Tom Paterson wrote:

> In all fairness, twice in the last 19 years or so, I've cut clincher tires.

No readon we can't carry a spare clincher tire, though not many do on a day ride because the odds of
an unrepairable cut are small.

Last week, some not-so-smooth rider I was with paniced on a steep downhill and locked up his rear
wheel. Dime-size hole through the tread and casing.

We repaired it with a "boot" I had made from an old silk tire, and it got him home.

I have to say that the belief that tubulars don't flat as much as clinchers does not square with my
experience. In fact, it's been quite the opposite. Since I went to clinchers 3 years ago or so, I
have had two rides with more than one flat. One when I used, naively, too-skinny rim tape, and the
other was a miserable rainy day when I managed to pick up loads of glass. Before, with tubulars, I
always had two spares -- since of course the chance of anyone else having one is nil -- and more
than once still had to get rescued. Flats were simply a regular occurrence, one that vanished when
I went to clinchers. When I was riding tubulars, chances are that, if there was a flat, it was me.
No longer.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |

 

[Bob Shanteau]

"Stefan Pavlik" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...

> Is there any sort of information/website available to answer alot of these questions?

See this article for a description of the advantages of tubulars, recommendations on gluing
procedure and performance of various brands of glues:

http://www.engr.ukans.edu/~ktl/bicycle/Tubular.html

The article recommends brushing 3 layers of glue on a new rim and 1 on the tire; mount tire when the
last layer of the rim is still tacky. I find that to be overkill; many of us use 1 layer on the rim
and 1 on the tire.

Vittoria Mastik One glue performs better than other glues when the rims get hot. I suspect that
people who have had trouble with glue melting from braking on downhill runs may have been using
Tubasti glue, which is particularly susceptible to heat.

I rolled a couple of tires 30 years ago when throwing my bike back and forth in sprints. That was
before I learned how to glue tires on right; I've never rolled one since, despite still throwing the
bike around a lot. It is sideways force on the tire that will tend to cause it to roll. There is not
much sideways force on a tire in normal riding unless you happen to ride across a longitudinal ridge
in the pavement when cornering. That's why you glue the tire on well.

I weigh 210 lbs and find the biggest problem I have is breaking cords. If you are heavy, you may
want to try a larger diameter tire than the typical 21 mm.

Several of the good inexpensive tires these days look like they are made in some factory in
Thailand: Gommitalia Champion, Vittoria Rally, and d'Alessandro. You can find 21 mm Vittoria Rally
tires for as little as $12 each plus shipping:

http://www.ital-tecno.com/components_main.htm

Another source that sells tubular tires cheap and in quantity is

http://www.labicicletta.com/wheels.html

Andrew Muzi has a "pair and a spare" of d'Alessandro tires for $50 plus shipping. I have one on my
front wheel right now. So far it is working very well.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/d'aless.html

At these prices, I don't find it economical to repair tubular tires.

Tufo tires are excellent but more expensive. Tufo makes a sealant you can squirt inside the tire
that takes care of small punctures (a staple, or a small piece of glass, for example). This is an
excellent alternative to repairing tires if you use more expensive tires. I have a Tufo S2 on my
rear wheel right now that I bought from "Euroteki":

http://www.geocities.com/euroteki/tires.htm#Tubular

I still carry a spare tire, even when using the sealant. I haven't had 2 flats on a ride since I
foolishly tried to jump a couple of cattle guards during a ride down the back side of Mt. Hamilton
near San Jose many years ago. I broke some cords on each of the tires I was using.

Bob Shanteau

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

Mike Shaw-<< Tubulars have pros and cons just like anything else. Whether the pros outweigh the cons
is entirely up to you.

Well said, Personal experience is the best(" how does titanium ride?")...I just wish people that
talk of tubies would use factual information...not-'quality of today's tubies is awful', or 'hard to
find and expensive' type ****....

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"