TUFO tires



rejimison

New Member
Oct 21, 2003
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I just read about the TUFO hybrid tire. It is a tubular with a clincher bead. Supposedly fits any clincher wheel. The rolling resistance is apparently tubular-level with a very high inflation capacity and a puncture-resist layer. The down side is its weight..about fifty grams more. Of course we're talking more rotational weight, but...

I've always been curious about the dual tire status, and why someone didn't produce a combo. The technology should certainly be available, and most of us would like to move on from this tubular/clincher debate.

My info is all press release stuff. Does anyone have real-time data on the tire.
Thanks, Jim
 
My son and I put a pair of TUFO clinchers (700/23) on a pair of Ksyrium wheels. The weight on this road tire was listed as 350 gm as I recall. We put the 'goop' (1/2 tube per tire) after installation, and have them at 110 psi. (They are rated to 180 to 200 psi, but I'm not so sure the clincher rims are rated for that pressure.) I've read that you don't want to let the air out of them once you've filled them as the sealant will clog the stem.

The rolling resistance is low, but I think the ride is harsher than my old sew-ups. However, this may be a more nostalgic sensation as I never measured the tire pressures in those days, but thumb pressure.

The TUFO clinchers are expensive, and a bit difficult to stretch onto the rims. Personally, I think I prefer the ride of my Continental Grand Prix 3000 tires, which I run at 90 psi (700/23) on the same wheels.
 
Originally posted by rljones
My son and I put a pair of TUFO clinchers (700/23) on a pair of Ksyrium wheels. The weight on this road tire was listed as 350 gm as I recall. We put the 'goop' (1/2 tube per tire) after installation, and have them at 110 psi. (They are rated to 180 to 200 psi, but I'm not so sure the clincher rims are rated for that pressure.) I've read that you don't want to let the air out of them once you've filled them as the sealant will clog the stem.

The rolling resistance is low, but I think the ride is harsher than my old sew-ups. However, this may be a more nostalgic sensation as I never measured the tire pressures in those days, but thumb pressure.

The TUFO clinchers are expensive, and a bit difficult to stretch onto the rims. Personally, I think I prefer the ride of my Continental Grand Prix 3000 tires, which I run at 90 psi (700/23) on the same wheels.
I had not considered the psi limits of the rim.
thanks,Jim
 
Originally posted by rejimison
I had not considered the psi limits of the rim.
thanks,Jim

As far as I know, the pressure in the tire isn't transmitted to the rim the same way as a conventional clincher, so a "tubular clincher" can run much higher pressures. The tire is held on by the rubber strips more by the shape of its construction than by the air pressure alone. <P>

That said, I have no experience with them, just have been reading a bunch about them lately.
 
Don't forget to subtract the weight of the tube and rim strip when comparing weight of Tufos to others... at least 100g.
 
cmh,

I'm not an engineer, and maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can comment, but I would not go too high with the tire pressure. The bead of the tire is forced out onto the lip of the rim with the pressure exerted from either type of clincher proportional to their pressure. Also, the tube inside the TUFO is still in contact with the central part of the rim as the tube is expanded; it is not 'floating' off the rim and somehow isolated. All of this pressure is still exerted on the rim.

The Mavic KSYRIUM SSL SL (also Mavic Open Pros and Elites) with a 23mm tire are rated for 138 psi.

We read about aluminum frames having a fatigue factor after which they can precipitously fail (unlike steel that is gradual). Why should the failure of aluminum rims be any different? Personally, I don't want to test it. I had my son only put up to 120 psi into the TUFO despite their greater rating. (Also, as the meter on the pump is not calibrated, if you go to 138 psi on the above rims, you could easily be putting 150 into your tire. I would allow some margin for error.)

Regards, Robert
 
Originally posted by rljones
cmh,

I'm not an engineer,

I am! :)

and maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can comment, but I would not go too high with the tire pressure. The bead of the tire is forced out onto the lip of the rim with the pressure exerted from either type of clincher proportional to their pressure. Also, the tube inside the TUFO is still in contact with the central part of the rim as the tube is expanded; it is not 'floating' off the rim and somehow isolated. All of this pressure is still exerted on the rim.

The Mavic KSYRIUM SSL SL (also Mavic Open Pros and Elites) with a 23mm tire are rated for 138 psi.

True, and correct me if I'm wrong, but we're talking about Tufo's tubular clinchers, not an ordinary clincher.

Try this: Take a normal clincher, put a tube in it. Don't mount it to a rim. Inflate the tube to 100psi. What happens? The tube expands without bound until it pops, well below the 100psi. That's because the rim works with the tire to contain the tube (and the air inside of it).

Now try the same with a tubular tire, or a tubular clincher, which is a tubular with the little rubber mounting wings on it. You can inflate the tire to full pressure off of the rim, because the tire fully contains the tube. (in the case of the Tufos, there's no separate tube, but the idea is the same)

So what this means is that a tubular clincher at 130psi is not putting nearly as much stress on the rim walls as a conventional clincher at the same pressure because the rim is not being used to enclose the tube and resist the air pressure. Therefore, we can inflate the tire to a higher pressure.

Visual aids:


A conventional clincher tire



A tubular clincher


Also notice how Tufo lists the same psi range for both the tubular and tubular clincher tire, and this particular one ranges up to 220psi!

Tufo info on Elite Road

We read about aluminum frames having a fatigue factor after which they can precipitously fail (unlike steel that is gradual). Why should the failure of aluminum rims be any different? Personally, I don't want to test it. I had my son only put up to 120 psi into the TUFO despite their greater rating. (Also, as the meter on the pump is not calibrated, if you go to 138 psi on the above rims, you could easily be putting 150 into your tire. I would allow some margin for error.)

Aluminum is different from steel in that it does not have a fatigue limit. That means that any time there is any stress in the material, it gets closer to failure. Steel has a fatigure limit, where if the stress does not exceed this limit, the material will have, for all intents and purposes, an infinite lifespan.

What this means in terms of rims is that ANY stress on the rim gets it closer to failure. Even inflating a tire to 20psi will do this, although it'll take a whole bunch of cycles (probably millions) of inflating and deflating to get there.

Increasing the stress will decrease the number of cycles to failure, naturally, and the 138psi limit you see is Mavic balancing a reasonable, safe fatigue life against a rim weight and strength. These are the same considerations taken into effect by the folks who design aluminum bike frames, airplanes, and lawn chairs.

Conclusion?

Since the rim isn't holding the tire pressure the same way that it does with a conventional clincher, I don't see any risk in inflating the tubular clincher to Tufo's numbers.
 
Originally posted by rejimison
I just read about the TUFO hybrid tire. It is a tubular with a clincher bead. Supposedly fits any clincher wheel. The rolling resistance is apparently tubular-level with a very high inflation capacity and a puncture-resist layer. The down side is its weight..about fifty grams more. Of course we're talking more rotational weight, but...

I've always been curious about the dual tire status, and why someone didn't produce a combo. The technology should certainly be available, and most of us would like to move on from this tubular/clincher debate.

My info is all press release stuff. Does anyone have real-time data on the tire.
Thanks, Jim

Hello all.....

Not sure how busy of a forum this is but I will play along for a while.

I just got my first set of Tubular Clinchers in Today. They are the C Hi Composite Carbon Black Tread Yellow Wall...

So first impressions? Cool....very cool....they happen to match my bikes yellow accents perfectly..(Giant TCR)

Mounting.....I am really not that fimilliar with Road stuff....I have only ridden a few 1000 miles on the road so far (started in Mtn biking) so road tires are new to me....So mounting was a little new to me BUT not that hard.....it took a little while the first time and much less the second.

They are inflated and waiting until Saturday for a ride....

I did have two things I would like to mention....

Rim tape....I took mine off and it really did not seem heavy. Not sure how much weight that saves but I am sure the tube is a LOT more..

The valve Ext. was a little odd. I installed them correctly and all is well so far....The presta valve stems do not have the deepest threads. I think I over tighened the front one and I hear it click....I was careful the second time and snuged it....I am assuming I can get extras anywhere or are they special high pressure stems?

All in all it has gone well. I will update after my first ride....

Biff
 
I have ridden two sets of the Tufo Giro Twix tyres which sit near the top of the range. I only punctured once with both sets and found the goo did its job fine. Problem was that after the puncture I felt like I should replace the tyre as I lost confidence in the damaged one.
Ride was always very hard on the Tufo's at around 140psi and I was never that confident in the turns (My open corsa CXs are a different ballgame)

I think what ultimately turned me away from them was the risk of having no way of getting home if the goo failed at all. Combined with the harsh ride it just wasnt worth it.
 
Originally posted by bstephens
I just got my first set of Tubular Clinchers in Today. They are the C Hi Composite Carbon Black Tread Yellow Wall...

So first impressions? Cool....very cool....they happen to match my bikes yellow accents perfectly..(Giant TCR)

Nice ride Biff, and I like those Eurus wheels. I'd like to see a shot of the entire bike. I see you're well stocked on "Grape Nuts" :D, so get carb'd up and let us know how they worked out.
 
Originally posted by Ted B
Nice ride Biff, and I like those Eurus wheels. I'd like to see a shot of the entire bike. I see you're well stocked on "Grape Nuts" :D, so get carb'd up and let us know how they worked out.

Thank you..

Here are some links.....

both the bike..me and the bike and :( not me and the bike....

http://www.vsstech.net/biff/my_ride.jpg

http://www.vsstech.net/biff/ms150.jpg

http://www.vsstech.net/biff/hooters.jpg

The wheels were a recomendation from my bike shop. It is one of few things I did not pick out for the bike. I am very happy with them.

In the first picture you can just see a keg on the left.....one of the other things I love besides Grape Nuts....

Wooohoooo

B
 
Wow, it looks like Eurus wheels are very popular with the ladies. I need to get a set of those...

Seriously, that's quite a nice ride. Enjoy!
 
Originally posted by drewski
cmh, your visual aids didn't come through.

Sorry, they're clickable links. It doesn't mark them or change the color or anything. I noticed that after the fact and didn't bother to fix it.


what you say, is pretty much what tufo says on their site too

http://www.tufo.com/index.php?lg=en&co=produkce

Hmmm... I looked for that info when I wrote my reply, maybe this is new? Either that or I'm blind.
 
I have quite a few miles on Tufo, again the top end models, on Campag Neutron wheels. I think the high pressure is fine as far as wheel strength, but it quickly affects ride.

I think they have found in tests that on normal road surfaces, especially rougher or chip-seal ones, that too high a pressure actually gives more drag. We only use really high pressures on the track, where the surface is ultra smooth.

I stay around 110 rear, 105 front, and find it works great.

On my Euros wheels (getting popular, arent' they??) I'm now using VeloFlex Pave clincher tires (180gr) since a friend gave them to me, and I like their ride "feel" too. And with lite tubes it's a pretty light weight setup overall.
 
Biff,

_So many_ things about this photograph say "cyclist" to me...it's difficult to know where to begin

The bike is in the _middle_ of the _kitchen_!
The bike looks _immaculate_, yet
... the garbage has not been taken out!
...that stuff _all over_ the cupboards and stove!
You live your life in vociferous opposition to the Atkins Diet!
.....("They can have my carbohydrates when they pry them from my cold, dead hands!")
Of course, the keg!
The pasta pot that could feed most of Sicily!
_Could_ that be Gatorade atop the keg??

My hat is off to you, Sir, for _you_ are what this forum is truly about!!

Neil

Originally posted by bstephens


http://www.vsstech.net/biff/my_ride.jpg

In the first picture you can just see a keg on the left.....one of the other things I love besides Grape Nuts....

Wooohoooo

B
 
Originally posted by rljones
My son and I put a pair of TUFO clinchers (700/23) on a pair of Ksyrium wheels. The weight on this road tire was listed as 350 gm as I recall. We put the 'goop' (1/2 tube per tire) after installation, and have them at 110 psi. (They are rated to 180 to 200 psi, but I'm not so sure the clincher rims are rated for that pressure.) I've read that you don't want to let the air out of them once you've filled them as the sealant will clog the stem.

The rolling resistance is low, but I think the ride is harsher than my old sew-ups. However, this may be a more nostalgic sensation as I never measured the tire pressures in those days, but thumb pressure.

The TUFO clinchers are expensive, and a bit difficult to stretch onto the rims. Personally, I think I prefer the ride of my Continental Grand Prix 3000 tires, which I run at 90 psi (700/23) on the same wheels.

I ride tubulars on my racing bike and have used Conti 3000 on my touring bikes (yep they do make or made a 28). My remarks about Tufo tubulars may be helpful and, in my experience, they take about 300 miles to break in. Meaning that they squeek alot. Tufos are the best tire that I have ridden. If your running 90 psi they may not be the tire for you. Review their specifications. Tufo's run best over 140.