Tune vs American Classic hubs?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Tim McTeague, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Tim McTeague

    Tim McTeague Guest

    I see many of the wheel builders people on the net seem to like, such as oddsandendos (Mike Garcia)
    and SpeedDream (Dave Thomas), use American Classic hubs a lot. Mike Garcia suggests the German Tune
    hubs as an upgrade. Checking Roadbike and MtBike review the AC hubs don't fare too well but Tune
    does. Neither seems hugely popular however. Anyone have first hand, or reliable second hand,
    information on these hubs? I have always had good old Shimano/Campagnolo hubs but they are said to
    be heavy with thin axles by the wheelbuilders. Advice?

    Tim McTeague
     
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  2. Is there anyway you can get tune hub online? how much do they go for? "Tim McTeague"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I see many of the wheel builders people on the net seem to like, such as oddsandendos (Mike
    > Garcia) and SpeedDream (Dave Thomas), use American Classic hubs a lot. Mike Garcia suggests the
    > German Tune hubs as an upgrade. Checking Roadbike and MtBike review the AC hubs don't fare too
    > well but Tune does. Neither seems hugely popular however. Anyone have first hand, or reliable
    > second hand, information on these hubs? I have always had good old Shimano/Campagnolo hubs but
    > they are said to be heavy with thin axles by the wheelbuilders. Advice?
    >
    > Tim McTeague
     
  3. Patrick

    Patrick Guest

    I'm a fan of fancy wheels (have a set of Speed Dream MTB wheels, and I'm currently waiting on a new
    set of road wheels from Dave). However, I'm also a fan of wheels that will last me several years or
    more so I shy away from the specialty hubs. Depends on your drivetrain of course, but I run Campy
    and Record hubs aren't all that much heavier (note that many hub manufacturers list weights w/o
    skewers, but Campy *includes* skewers in advertised weights). If I had a Shimano drivetrain I'd
    probably go with Chris King hubs - I have them on my MTB wheels and they're great. As far as
    American Classic, I've also read the horror stories, so I wouldn't go near them - plus, I think
    they're FUGLY as heck (flame-suit on!)

    I'm sure most wheelbuilders will build whatever you want; just give them a call and talk to them
    about your riding style, weight, etc. I think it's well worth the minimal extra cost to have someone
    super-knowledgable build your wheels, regardless of the components.
     
  4. mcteague-<< Anyone have first hand, or reliable second hand, information on these hubs? I have
    always had good old Shimano/Campagnolo hubs but they are said to be heavy with thin axles by the
    wheelbuilders.

    Heavy with thin axles-what bugle oil. For a road bike wheel it is hard to beat DuraAce or
    Centaur/Chorus/Record. For durability, ease of maintenance, common parts, weight, price. A lot of
    the web builders muck around with a lot of goofy lacings cuz that crap sells, not last, but
    whizbangery sells. BUT call around and see if anybody has any parts for CK, Hugi, Tune, AC,
    hubs...from a good wheelbuulder, not somebody 'competing' with other whizbang wheels, from Mavic,
    Campagnolo, etc.

    For MTB hubs, hard to beat 2002/3 XTR-

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  5. Amit

    Amit Guest

  6. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:09:26 -0500, Amit wrote:

    > "Chalothorn Vashirakovit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> Is there anyway you can get tune hub online? how much do they go for?
    >
    > They are available from:
    >
    > http://www.labicicletta.com
    >
    > They ain't cheap

    No lie there. $349 -- US for a friggin' hub! Ah, well, the non-carbon axle version is "only" $199
    US. For one hub. At least it's a rear hub. No skewer?

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. -- _`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >I see many of the wheel builders people on the net seem to like, such as oddsandendos (Mike Garcia)
    >and SpeedDream (Dave Thomas), use American Classic hubs a lot. Mike Garcia suggests the German Tune
    >hubs as an upgrade. Checking Roadbike and MtBike review the AC hubs don't fare too well but Tune
    >does. Neither seems hugely popular however. Anyone have first hand, or reliable second hand,
    >information on these hubs? I have always had good old Shimano/Campagnolo hubs but they are said to
    >be heavy with thin axles by the wheelbuilders. Advice?

    If you want solid, reliable hubs, stick with Shimano/Campagnolo. Other hubs are not that much, if at
    all, lighter than the top of the line Shimano/Campagnolo offerings.
    -----------------
    Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  8. Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> wrote:

    > If you want solid, reliable hubs, stick with Shimano/Campagnolo. Other hubs are not that much, if
    > at all, lighter than the top of the line Shimano/Campagnolo offerings.

    What you said about weight is not really true. A pair of Record hubs is 366 grams a pair, without
    quick releases. An American Classic and Tune combination can be as little as 240 grams. That's about
    two thirds of the Records hubs' weight.

    I'm not saying that Record hubs aren't an overall better deal what comes to reliability,
    serviceability and price. Logically thinking that should include almost everybody, but there are
    always those types for whom low weight seems to be the top priority, no matter what.

    -as
     
  9. Carsten

    Carsten Guest

    Tune is online and they also have an english version of the web site: www.tune.de

    they make hubs since i think 1994 and are still in business. their stuff is really good and well
    made but as with all lightweight parts one should not expect that they last forever without
    maintenance.

    Cheers, Carsten

    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Tim McTeague wrote:
    > >
    > > I see many of the wheel builders people on the net seem to like, such as oddsandendos (Mike
    > > Garcia) and SpeedDream (Dave Thomas), use American Classic hubs a lot. Mike Garcia suggests the
    > > German Tune hubs as an upgrade. Checking Roadbike and MtBike review the AC hubs don't fare too
    > > well but Tune does. Neither seems hugely popular however. Anyone have first hand, or reliable
    > > second hand, information on these hubs? I have always had good old Shimano/Campagnolo hubs but
    > > they are said to be heavy with thin axles by the wheelbuilders. Advice?
    >
    > I have a front AC microhub (68g). It seems to work just fine. I don't know of any AC microhub
    > complaints by others, but I suppose there are some somewhere.
     
  10. Bfd

    Bfd Guest

    Antti Salonen <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > If you want solid, reliable hubs, stick with Shimano/Campagnolo. Other hubs are not that much,
    > > if at all, lighter than the top of the line Shimano/Campagnolo offerings.
    >
    > What you said about weight is not really true. A pair of Record hubs is 366 grams a pair, without
    > quick releases. An American Classic and Tune combination can be as little as 240 grams. That's
    > about two thirds of the Records hubs' weight.
    >
    Your weight for the above hubs is a bit misleading. First, let's compare apples to apples, according
    to Damon Rinard/Sheldon Brown, the following are the weights of the the above rear cassette hubs,
    WITHOUT SKEWERS, that have been ACTUALLY WEIGHED:

    Tune 215 rear hub (215g) Am Classic rear hub (235, 236g) Record 10 (2000) (248g) Chorus 10 (2000)
    (260g) Hugi 240 (237g) CKing (264g)

    For more, see here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/weights.htm#cassettehubs

    As for "lightweight" front hubs, take a look at: FRM front hub (64g) American Classic Micro front
    hub (65, 67g) Tune Mig 66 2000 (81, 83g) Record (2000) (118g)

    For more front hubs, see here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/weights.htm#fronthubs

    So the majority of the "difference" is going to be basically in the choice of front hub. The
    question is whether you want strictly lightweight or a combination of lightweight, durability and
    cost. Yes, you can get a Tune rear/Am Classic micro front that will weigh around 280g, but how much
    is that set going to cost? Further, how durable will that combo be?.....
     
  11. bfd <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Antti Salonen <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...

    >> What you said about weight is not really true. A pair of Record hubs is 366 grams a pair, without
    >> quick releases. An American Classic and Tune combination can be as little as 240 grams. That's
    >> about two thirds of the Records hubs' weight.
    >>
    > Your weight for the above hubs is a bit misleading. First, let's compare apples to apples,
    > according to Damon Rinard/Sheldon Brown, the following are the weights of the the above rear
    > cassette hubs, WITHOUT SKEWERS, that have been ACTUALLY WEIGHED:

    I'm not sure what you are yelling about. The weights I mentioned were without skewers although not
    weighed by a third party.

    Let's add to the following list the Tune MAG 180, which according to the manufacturer weighs 183
    grams. Considering that the weight you've quoted below or the Tune 215 is actually lower than the
    manufacturer's official number, we can probably assume the real weight isn't more than that. That's
    the hub I used to calculate the total of roughly 240 grams. Whether this is a few grams off doesn't
    really change anything.

    URL: http://www.tunecomp.com/tune8.11/english/produkte/nabe.htm

    > Tune 215 rear hub (215g) Am Classic rear hub (235, 236g) Record 10 (2000) (248g) Chorus 10 (2000)
    > (260g) Hugi 240 (237g) CKing (264g)

    > For more, see here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/weights.htm#cassettehubs

    I'm familiar with Damon Rinard's chart, but it doesn't list all hubs on the market.

    > The question is whether you want strictly lightweight or a combination of lightweight, durability
    > and cost. Yes, you can get a Tune rear/Am Classic micro front that will weigh around 280g, but how
    > much is that set going to cost? Further, how durable will that combo be?.....

    I believe this is more or less what I said in my own posting. No disagreement here. You have to
    decide how much you're willing to sacrifice in durability, serviceability and money to gain barely a
    hundred grams. Logically it shouldn't be a good deal to almost anyone, but somehow these
    stupid-light hubs seem to survive on the market.

    -as
     
  12. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    [email protected] (Tim McTeague) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Carsten) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Tune is online and they also have an english version of the web site: www.tune.de
    > >
    > > they make hubs since i think 1994 and are still in business. their stuff is really good and well
    > > made but as with all lightweight parts one should not expect that they last forever without
    > > maintenance.
    > >
    > > Cheers, Carsten
    >
    > I have seen their web site, but not much to read there. I was looking for opinions on AC and Tune
    > hubs, such as long term reliability. AC seems to have taken a few knocks on overall quality but,
    > back under original management, may be back on track. I guess I wanted something a bit more trick
    > than my old Shimano 600 hub, Mavic Reflex rim, 32 spoke wheels. Perhaps it is best to stick with
    > Dura-Ace hubs, but if I can loose 200+ grams on a pair of wheels, and not give up too much
    > durability in the bargain, then why not. Mike Garcia sells Tune built wheels for about $100 more
    > than AC, which he sells for the same price as Dura-Ace hubbed wheels. Decisions, decisions.
    >
    > Tim

    What do you plan on gaining by losing that 200+ grams? Even 500g means mostly nothing in everyday
    riding. Most people here will tell you (if you haven't surmised by now) that you most likely won't
    realize any gain in performance. Rememeber, there's no freen lunch.

    Go for the DA hubs and standard rim/spokes.

    Robin Hubert
     
  13. Tim McTeague

    Tim McTeague Guest

    > What do you plan on gaining by losing that 200+ grams? Even 500g means mostly nothing in everyday
    > riding. Most people here will tell you (if you haven't surmised by now) that you most likely won't
    > realize any gain in performance. Rememeber, there's no freen lunch.
    >
    > Go for the DA hubs and standard rim/spokes.
    >
    > Robin Hubert

    Not much, really. But, come on, we all look at the weight of components, and if I can get lighter
    hubs and not sacrifice quality, why not? My current bike is about a pound less than my last one and
    my average speed has not dropped a bit. There is that "certain something" about picking up a light
    bike even if it does nothing to contribute to speed.

    By the way, what is a "freen lunch"? Green eggs and ham?

    Tim
     
  14. lisated

    lisated Guest

    > There is that "certain something" about picking up a light bike even if it does nothing to
    > contribute to speed.
    >
    > Tim

    Could you be more specific?

    Ted
     
  15. Tim McTeague

    Tim McTeague Guest

    > Could you be more specific?
    >
    > Ted

    Now, Ted, I'm sure you know what I mean. Just as with the pleasure you can derive from looking at
    well machined parts there can be enjoyment in handling lightweight, well made bicycles that is not
    directly connected to their ability to make us go faster. I like riding bikes and sometimes just
    looking at bikes. Most people, when checking out a new bike, grab it by the seat and stem, lift it
    off the ground a couple of times and proceed to make an assessment based on weight. I am well aware
    that a pound here or there really does not make a serious difference, but light bikes are cool.
    There seems to be a faction out there that gets offended if someone buys a bike or parts that are
    lighter/more expensive or in any way out of the ordinary. I love to read the comments on the
    bike-photo section of roadbikereview.com. People go apeshit over stem height, wheel and component
    choice, etc. Let people buy what they want. Constructive criticism is fine but some just like to
    sling mud. Meanwhile, I need to go for a ride but it's too freakin' cold. What a wimp.

    Tim
     
  16. tity

    tity Guest

    >And 126 grams difference-about 4 ounces ....I think I'll continue to recommend shimano/Campagnolo

    But that 4 ounces is 33% lighter!!!! FOr a same part, I'll take the 33% lighter one any day and pass
    you on the uphills everytime.

    Thats like saying you'd rather rider your 33% heavier 20lb bike over 15lb one! Absolutely crazy
    talk. If Lance thought a 20lb bike was better, you'd see him riding one. He chooses weight over
    "name brand"
    - how else does he get his bike to 15.5lbs. And he probably has to add weight to his bike so that it
    doesn't go UNDER the UCI minimum weight!
     
  17. Bill Lloyd

    Bill Lloyd Guest

    Pete,

    CK has parts for CK hubs... you can get that stuff online from them if you want.

    But I'd agree that the Dura Ace and Record hubs are pretty hard to beat. I generally get 50,000
    miles out of 'em with a bearing change or two and then throw 'em on a bike that I'm selling because
    I feel I need new hubs even though they're as good as new ;-)

    -B

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > mcteague-<< Anyone have first hand, or reliable second hand, information on these hubs? I have
    > always had good old Shimano/Campagnolo hubs but they are said to be heavy with thin axles by the
    > wheelbuilders.
    >
    > Heavy with thin axles-what bugle oil. For a road bike wheel it is hard to
    beat
    > DuraAce or Centaur/Chorus/Record. For durability, ease of maintenance,
    common
    > parts, weight, price. A lot of the web builders muck around with a lot of
    goofy
    > lacings cuz that crap sells, not last, but whizbangery sells. BUT call
    around
    > and see if anybody has any parts for CK, Hugi, Tune, AC, hubs...from a
    good
    > wheelbuulder, not somebody 'competing' with other whizbang wheels, from
    Mavic,
    > Campagnolo, etc.
    >
    > For MTB hubs, hard to beat 2002/3 XTR-
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  18. Jay Hill

    Jay Hill Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >>And 126 grams difference-about 4 ounces ....I think I'll continue to recommend shimano/Campagnolo
    >
    >
    > But that 4 ounces is 33% lighter!!!!

    4oz is 4oz. Do you also shop for things that are 50 % off?
     
  19. Bill Lloyd

    Bill Lloyd Guest

    That is the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard.

    Who gives a crap if it's 33% lighter... the difference is 4 ounces. Which is 1/5 the weight of a
    full water bottle. You won't pass him on the uphills every time... it's dependent on who actually
    rides their bike more.

    On a good day on a 20 lb bike I'd be a LOT faster up a hill than on a bad day on a 15 lb bike.

    -B

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >And 126 grams difference-about 4 ounces ....I think I'll continue to
    recommend
    > >shimano/Campagnolo
    >
    > But that 4 ounces is 33% lighter!!!! FOr a same part, I'll take the 33% lighter one any day and
    > pass you on the uphills everytime.
    >
    > Thats like saying you'd rather rider your 33% heavier 20lb bike over 15lb one! Absolutely crazy
    > talk. If Lance thought a 20lb bike was better, you'd see him riding one. He chooses weight over
    > "name brand"
    > - how else does he get his bike to 15.5lbs. And he probably has to add weight to his bike so that
    > it doesn't go UNDER the UCI minimum weight!
    >
     
  20. On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:38:07 -0500, tity wrote:

    >>And 126 grams difference-about 4 ounces ....I think I'll continue to recommend shimano/Campagnolo
    >
    > But that 4 ounces is 33% lighter!!!! FOr a same part, I'll take the 33% lighter one any day and
    > pass you on the uphills everytime.
    >
    > Thats like saying you'd rather rider your 33% heavier 20lb bike over 15lb one! Absolutely
    > crazy talk.

    Speaking of. 4 ounces is not 5 pounds.

    > If Lance thought a 20lb bike was better, you'd see him riding one. He chooses weight over "name
    > brand" - how else does he get his bike to 15.5lbs. And he probably has to add weight to his bike
    > so that it doesn't go UNDER the UCI minimum weight!

    That makes a lot of sense. Make the bike stupid-light, and then hang lead weights on it to
    be legal...

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or _`\(,_ | that we are to
    stand by the president right or wrong, is not (_)/ (_) | only unpatriotic and servile, but is
    morally treasonable to the American public. --Theodore Roosevelt
     
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