Turkey and the EU
- Thread starter fixit
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its a good idea i think, it will help loosen Euro-Muslim tensions. At least we will have an ally with some kind of influence in the middle east.fixit said:
Yikes - Turkey !
No disrespect intended to either Mountainpro or Fixit - but do we really need Turkey in the EU ?
Human rights in Turkey are pretty scarce.
I acknowledge that perhaps it might be a good way of easing tensions between Europe and the Arab world but they've got to clean up their human rights record, I think.
No disrespect intended to either Mountainpro or Fixit - but do we really need Turkey in the EU ?
Human rights in Turkey are pretty scarce.
I acknowledge that perhaps it might be a good way of easing tensions between Europe and the Arab world but they've got to clean up their human rights record, I think.
Turkey is one of the few, true secular goverments in the world. My only issue is their reluctance/refusal to allow American military to invade Iraq from the north. Also, they have problems w/ Macedonia which hav'nt been resolved yetlimerickman said:
All due respect, Lim, But Saudi has a little bit more pressing prob's inre: human right's. What are Ireland's diplomatic relations w/ Saudi-if you know.
davidmc said:Turkey is one of the few, true secular goverments in the world. My only issue is their reluctance/refusal to allow American military to invade Iraq from the north. Also, they have problems w/ Macedonia which hav'nt been resolved yet
On a scale Saudi is far worse but the Turkey ain't exactly a cakewalk.
Just ask the Kurds !
Turkey did allow the USA to invade Iraq from their country - Kirkuk in Northern
Iraq/Kurdistan has substantial oil reserves.
Ireland has diplomatic relations with Saudi - very much so in fact.
Believe it or not - horse racing makes these binds even closer.
Huge investments here in the Thoroughbreed industry by the Saudi's.
I think you might be incorrect about Turkey allowing the U.S. to insert forces via Turkey into Iraq. Also, Turkey was even amassing troops along the border, contravening American wishes for them to "stand down" because of their dislike(?) of the kurd's & their oil fields for reason's unbeknownst to me. Race horses are a boon to Kentucky(U.S.) also but, it makes me sick to think of their "openly", atrocious human right's record
davidmc said:
Yep - Saudi is a rough spot.
My extended family have a company in the engineering field and they do quite a bit of work throughout the Middle East and they tell me that Saudi is pretty rough.
If you're caught with any Christian religious relics (Bibles, Crucifix etc) you can end up being thrown in prison without trial.
If you're caught having a drink (alcohol) you're snookered as well.
Their record is a abysmal.
No way! We just took in 10 new members, let's try to get them to our economic level first. We already have 25 members, which is hard enough to get along.fixit said:
I just don't think it's a good idea to have a huge, (majorly) muslim, poor country with a dubious record of human rights and democracy in the EU. After all it's a EUROPEAN union, right?
Let them apply again in 50 years or so...
davidmc said:
The problem with Macedonia is between Greece and Macedonia.
This because Greece calls the part that has a border with Macedonia also Macedonia.
The Greeks are afraid that Macedonia will claim their part.
Turkey has nothing to do with Macedonia.
But Turkey and Greece really hate eachother. One keyword: Cyprus.
I didn`t mean to come on as anti-Turkey or anti-muslim. I just don`t think they`re ready... We could just as well take in Uzbekistan or whatever, they´re secular! Economically I don`t think it`s possible...that`s 80million people we`re talking about!davidmc said:They are secular, what more do you need
I know Bush wants them to join, reason enough for me to be sceptical
Jupiler said:
I agree with you that the ten new members will cause some major problems.
And yes, the human rights record of Turkey is indeed dubious. But the record of Greece is at least as dubious. And what about Spain, they had a fascist government until '78!!! Have you ever been to Spain when it's genaralisimo Francos birthday? Oh boy, I can tell you...
But Turkey is not exactly a poor country, not as poor as Portugal for example.
What classifies as Europe? Geographic oder cultural? Where would you draw the line?
For me the Baltic states don't classifie as european either, more scandinavian.
limerickman said:
I can't tell you if you need them, do you need Greece? I mean they're the biggest cheaters when it comes to getting money from the EU. Greece is just as bad as Turkey, they just don't have kurds. I'm sure you read about the things they did before the olympics. What about that?
Europe may indeed be hard to define, but I think we have to draw the line somewhere, I mean New-Zealand is more European culturally than Turkey... If you go to Istanbul or some other big cities it looks quite good but a very large part of the country is very much behind our standards, culturally and economically. I`m not a expert but I don`t think Portugal is way that bad. What about the way they treat the Kurds for instants?fixit said:
I know Greece and Spain are very recent democracies but they`ve come a far way since the early eighties...I was in Spain in `82 as a child and it was like Albania now I suppose. So they´ve come a far way. I think you´ll have a hard time finding Franco supporters nowadays.
I don´t know about you, but I think Scandinavia is definitly a part of Europe...well not Lapland and Groenland
Tchuss!
No problems, no disrespect taken,limerickman said:
i just thought that a country like Turkey would benefit from being in the EU rather than the EU benefiting from Turkeys membership. It could give us a chance to take them under our wing, so to speak and try and reduce corruption and human rights abuses...
i tend to give the benefit of the doubt a little too much,
i am just too soft thats my problem
It seems to me to be a politically dangerous to let 62 million muslims into the EU which is predominently Catholic. There are views which we have that do not match muslim views, this can be seen at this moment in Holland (deaths of Pim Fortain and Van Gogh). Both linked to these chaps airing their views about the Muslim community in Holland.
Pim - Its wrong to let people into our country who view asnd treat women and gays as second class citizens - he was right to say this.
Van Gogh - Produced a film written by a Moslim regarding their treatment of their women.
It's hard for us to implement equality amoungst ourselves without adding huge amounts of people (voters) into the system who do not believe the same things as us.
Plus, someone pointed out the 10 new countries and the financial affects, this is also true; look at the GDP per head of population for them - very low indeed, we need some time to let this settle down.
Pim - Its wrong to let people into our country who view asnd treat women and gays as second class citizens - he was right to say this.
Van Gogh - Produced a film written by a Moslim regarding their treatment of their women.
It's hard for us to implement equality amoungst ourselves without adding huge amounts of people (voters) into the system who do not believe the same things as us.
Plus, someone pointed out the 10 new countries and the financial affects, this is also true; look at the GDP per head of population for them - very low indeed, we need some time to let this settle down.
I agree!Ssushi said:
But for the record: Pim Fortuyn wasn't killed by a muslim, but by a native Dutchmen. Some extremist vegetarian, animal-liberation nutcase, they still don't know why...
Basically what Fortuyn said was that they already had enough problems with their immigrant/muslim population and that they had to get them integrated into their society first before even thinking about allowing new immigrants. I think he was right on that.
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