TV Ads Say S.U.V. Owners Support Terrorists

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Cycle America/N, Jan 23, 2003.

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  1. Slightly off topic but they do compromise our share of the road:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/business/media/08SUVS.html?ex=10426932
    00&en=4c65574ab6ffe612&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

    TV Ads Say S.U.V. Owners Support Terrorists By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE

    ASHINGTON, Jan. 7 ‹ Ratcheting up the debate over sport utility vehicles, new television commercials
    suggest that people who buy the vehicles are supporting terrorists. The commercials are so
    provocative that some television stations are refusing to run them.

    Patterned after the commercials that try to discourage drug use by suggesting that profits from
    illegal drugs go to terrorists, the new commercials say that money for gas needed for S.U.V.'s goes
    to terrorists.

    "This is George," a girl's voice says of an oblivious man at a gas station. "This is the gas that
    George bought for his S.U.V." The screen then shows a map of the Middle East. "These are the
    countries where the executives bought the oil that made the gas that George bought for his
    S.U.V." The picture switches to a scene of armed terrorists in a desert. "And these are the
    terrorists who get money from those countries every time George fills up his S.U.V."

    A second commercial depicts a series of ordinary Americans saying things like: "I helped hijack an
    airplane"; "I gave money to a terrorist training camp in a foreign country"; "What if I need to go
    off-road?"

    At the close, the screen is filled with the words: "What is your S.U.V. doing to our national
    security?"

    The two 30-second commercials are the brainchild of the author and columnist Arianna Huffington. Her
    target audience, she said, is Detroit and Congress, especially the Republicans and Democrats who
    last year voted against a bill, sponsored by Senators John McCain, Republican of Arizona, and John
    Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, that would have raised fuel-efficiency standards.

    Spokesmen for the automakers dismissed the commercials.

    Eron Shosteck, a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, said of Ms. Huffington,
    "Her opinion is out-voted every year by Americans who buy S.U.V.'s for their safety, comfort and
    versatility." He said that S.U.V.'s now account for 21 percent of the market.

    In an interview, Senator Kerry distanced himself from the commercials. He said that rather than
    oppose S.U.V.'s outright, he believed they should be more efficient.

    "I haven't seen these commercials," he said, "but anybody can drive as large an S.U.V. as they want,
    though it can be more efficient than it is today."

    SV. Huffington's group, which calls itself the Detroit Project, has bought almost $200,000 of air
    time for the commercials, to run from Sunday to Thursday. While the group may lose some
    viewers if stations refuse to run the advertisements, the message is attracting attention
    through news coverage.

    The advertisements are to be broadcast on "Meet The Press," "Face the Nation" and "This Week With
    George Stephanopoulos" in Detroit, Los Angeles, New York and Washington.

    But some local affiliates say they will not run them. At the ABC affiliate in New York, Art Moore,
    director of programming, said, "There were a lot of statements being made that were not backed up,
    and they're talking about hot-button issues."

    SW. Huffington said she got the idea for the commercials while watching the antidrug commercials,
    sponsored by the Bush administration. In her syndicated column, she asked readers if they would
    be willing to pay for "a people's ad campaign to jolt our leaders into reality."

    She said she received 5,000 e-mail messages and eventually raised $50,000 from the public. Bigger
    contributors included Steve Bing, the film producer; Larry David, the comedian and "Seinfeld"
    co-creator; and Norman Lear, the television producer.

    M A R T I N K R I E G : "Awake Again" Author Bent Since '83, Car Free Since '89, Attacking with
    Love Coma, Paralysis, Clinical Death Survivor '79 & '86 TransAm Vet - Invites you to:
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  2. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:24:35 -0800, "Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle Greenway" <[email protected]> wrote:

    I love the quote from the auto makers:

    >Her opinion is out-voted every year by Americans who buy S.U.V.'s for their safety, comfort and
    >versatility.

    Clearly he hasn't heard about the safety record of SUVs :)

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  3. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Mike DeMicco" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Also, why just pick on SUVs?

    Numbers.

    Other personal vehicles aren't being bought & sold, and put on the road, in the same sort of
    frenetic hussle, or in the same quantities.

    Maybe it's not so much SUVs per se being picked on, as the marketing-push to pump so many of those
    thirsty, climate changing, supersized behemoths into the world.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD

    remove NO_SPAM. from address to reply
     
  4. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Thu, 09 Jan 2003 19:46:06 +0000, <[email protected]>, "Just zis Guy, you
    know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:24:35 -0800, "Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle Greenway"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >I love the quote from the auto makers:
    >
    >>Her opinion is out-voted every year by Americans who buy S.U.V.'s for their safety, comfort and
    >>versatility.
    >
    >Clearly he hasn't heard about the safety record of SUVs :)
    >
    >Guy

    Since it's quoting an "auto maker", I'm certain they're very much aware of the SUVs' safety issues.

    The sick part is when we're going to see them introduce zero emission vehicles and not give them the
    advertising support needed to make it successful. Then they'll be able to fall back and say "see we
    told ya so".

    See - Road Outrage: How Corporate Greed And Political Corruption Paved The Way For The SUV Explosion
    By Arianna Huffington http://www.detroitproject.com/readmore/ah_010803.htm

    Check out Ms. Huffington's site and you can watch the commercials. http://www.detroitproject.com/
    --
    zk
     
  5. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Mike DeMicco" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...

    > On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:24:35 -0800, Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle Greenway wrote:
    >
    > > TV Ads Say S.U.V. Owners Support Terrorists By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
    >
    > This whole thing is dumb. The root cause is overpopulation (i.e., too many drivers) and the low
    > price of gas. Maybe people don't remember the oil shortages of the 70's when gas prices shot up
    > and people stopped buying big cars. Also, why just pick on SUVs? I see a lot of full sized pickup
    > trucks on the roads with empty beds and, as a cyclist, I hate those overwide dual wheeled versions
    > that take up the whole lane. At least an SUV can hold a bunch of passengers. The F series is
    > Ford's biggest seller.

    I consider pickups to be SUVs, and I think the govt. does too.

    Some people do have big trailers to pull, and need "duallies," but I bet more of them are sold to
    people just wanting the image.

    Here's an idea I've been pushing for awhile -- elminate all car taxes and registration fees, and
    replace them with gasoline taxes. Just figure it on average tax paid and mileage driven, so net
    revenue, and net cost to consumers, should be the same. But then people would have an opportunity to
    save money by driving a more efficient vehicle. Furthermore, it would remove a huge hurdle from
    purchasing a new car -- the big upfront car tax is a major part of the drive-off cost. So switching
    vehicles would be made easier, and there would be a wave of new cars sold, which would be good for
    the economy.

    But politically, the big problem with such a thing is that Honda/Toyota would probably get more of
    the action than Detroit! Lobbyists would put a quick stop to it.

    Matt O.
     
  6. "Mike DeMicco" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...

    >Maybe people don't remember the oil shortages of the 70's when gas prices
    shot up and people stopped buying big cars.

    I remember that. Two things come to mind.

    Remember "Odd or Even" gas days, and stations being closed? "Odd or Even" meant you looked at the
    last digit of your (California) license plate, and purchased gas on an odd or even date accordingly.
    If you could find a gas station open. Sometimes just for the hell of it, some of us would get
    together and stop at a closed gas station and line up one car behind the other at a pump. Soon, cars
    would pull off the road and line up behind us. We'd finish our lunch, then leave. Great practical
    joke. I felt a little bit bad because they were all idling their engines.

    I remember friends who bought a diesel VW and filled the tank in Mexico every payday and drove it
    around San Diego for the intervening two weeks.
     
  7. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:40:00 -0800, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:

    I'm waiting for two purchases right now: a used copy of Unsafe At Any Speed, which I really want to
    read, and I've also bought High And Mighty. I've no doubt that I'll get Huffington's book as well,
    right after I've found a copy of Stupid White Men :)

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  8. Mark Jones

    Mark Jones Guest

    "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The problem is not boats or people hauling stuff in their vans on
    weekends,
    > but millions of people driving oversized vehicles to work every day while hauling nothing but
    > their own fat ass.
    Are you going to come over and add another bay to my garage so I will have a place to park an
    economy car? Are you going to also pay the extra insurance cost?

    My truck is my primary transportation and is used for hauling stuff as needed. I have had three
    economy cars and I hated them.
     
  9. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Guest

    "Tom Keats" <[email protected]_SPAM.vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > Maybe it's not so much SUVs per se being picked on, as the marketing-push to pump so many of those
    > thirsty, climate changing, supersized behemoths into the world.

    Climate changing? Whose climate has been changed by SUV's?

    Dave
     
  10. Edward Dike

    Edward Dike Guest

    Tom Keats <[email protected]_SPAM.vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    | In article <[email protected]>, "Mike DeMicco"
    | <[email protected]> writes:
    |
    | > Also, why just pick on SUVs?
    |
    | Numbers.
    |
    | Other personal vehicles aren't being bought & sold, and put on the road, in the same sort of
    | frenetic hussle, or in the same quantities.
    |
    | Maybe it's not so much SUVs per se being picked on, as the marketing-push to pump so many of those
    | thirsty, climate changing, supersized behemoths into the world.
    |
    |
    | cheers, Tom
    |

    "...Other personal vehicles aren't being bought & sold, and
    | put on the road, in the same sort of frenetic hussle, or in the same quantities..."

    "...Also, why just pick on SUVs?..."

    A very observant query.

    Actually, Ford & Chevy Pick-ups are far more common than their related SUVs, which are essentially
    the same drivetrain. Because the anti SUV movement, like many so called 'environmental' concerns is
    driven by those pushing an socialistic economic agenda that has little to do with the preservation
    of natural resources. From the perspective, and concern of a cyclist, a full size pickup, and a SUV
    represent similar encounter challenges, yet in these newsgroups the pickup is rarely viified the
    way the SUV is.

    To go after pickup trucks is to go after the construction worker/ tradesman / working class who
    historically has been more likely a Democrat than Republican supporter, the involved politicians
    know who to go after, and who to avoid. Recognize the crusade for what it is driven by.... The
    politics of envy: If I can't have one, or don't want one; then you should not be allowed one.

    ED3
     
  11. "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >

    ...
    > I consider pickups to be SUVs, and I think the govt. does too.
    >

    No, they don't.

    FWIW, even the equivalent luxury pickups (XLTs or whatever) weigh less and get better gas mileage on
    average, for the same profile. It isn't necessary - a SUV could be made more aerodynamic than a van,
    which is basically a barn door driving into the wind. But that would mean giving up all that
    nonsensical body cladding and aggressive styling.

    My personal observation is that the standard pickups and vans
    (i.e.commercial types) tend to know they are pickups and vans. They don't blithely merge into
    traffic evidently unaware or uncaring about the blind spots on large vehicles. In addition, the
    tires and suspension aren't trying to fool anyone into believing that they are driving a car:
    the tires and suspensions as a result don't have the same rancid record when it comes to
    blow-outs and turnovers.

    Again a personal observation, about the same two stretches of road, five days a week, where the
    right lane SHOULD be a merge lane off an Interstate, but can be used to jump to the head of the line
    of traffic (one where the merge is at a flashing caution light with cross traffic trying to get on
    the road) - 9 out of 10 vehicles that choose to endanger everyone so that they can cut 3 or 4
    seconds from their commute are SUVs. On some days four or five vehicles will do it and they will be
    all SUVs. No other type of vehicle is remotely close in this behavior pattern. Scientific? No. But a
    constant observation.

    Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA)
     
  12. Edward Dike

    Edward Dike Guest

    Matt O'Toole <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    |
    | "Mike DeMicco" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    | news:p[email protected]...
    |
    | > On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:24:35 -0800, Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle Greenway wrote:
    | >
    | > > TV Ads Say S.U.V. Owners Support Terrorists By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
    | >
    | > This whole thing is dumb. The root cause is overpopulation (i.e., too
    many
    | > drivers) and the low price of gas. Maybe people don't remember the oil shortages of the 70's
    | > when gas prices shot up and people stopped buying big cars. Also, why just pick on SUVs? I see a
    | > lot of full sized pickup trucks on the roads with empty beds and, as a cyclist, I hate those
    | > overwide dual wheeled versions that take up the whole lane. At least an SUV can hold a bunch of
    | > passengers. The F series is Ford's biggest
    seller.
    |
    | I consider pickups to be SUVs, and I think the govt. does too.
    |
    | Some people do have big trailers to pull, and need "duallies," but I bet more of them are sold to
    | people just wanting the image.
    |
    | Here's an idea I've been pushing for awhile -- elminate all car taxes and registration fees, and
    | replace them with gasoline taxes. Just figure it
    on
    | average tax paid and mileage driven, so net revenue, and net cost to consumers, should be the
    | same. But then people would have an opportunity
    to
    | save money by driving a more efficient vehicle. Furthermore, it would remove a huge hurdle from
    | purchasing a new car -- the big upfront car tax
    is
    | a major part of the drive-off cost. So switching vehicles would be made easier, and there would be
    | a wave of new cars sold, which would be good
    for
    | the economy.
    |
    | But politically, the big problem with such a thing is that Honda/Toyota would probably get more of
    | the action than Detroit! Lobbyists would put a quick stop to it.
    |
    | Matt O.
    |
    I don't know where you live, but most places in the USA have considerable Federal, state, and even
    some local taxes applied at the gas pump... I haven't heard of "car taxes" before, perhaps you can
    elaborate. Annual registration fees are based on value here in MN. I doubt I pay more than $100 year
    for 2 vehicles. ED3
     
  13. "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > My new Subaru Forester (which is not really an SUV, but...) gets 27mpg. The industry has
    > > improved performance/mileage over the years, even despite these monster trucks.
    >
    > Well, yes and no. They've definately improved performance and economy with respect to size. The
    > problem is that they keep selling us bigger and bigger vehicles. An illustrative example is the
    > new Saturn Ion -- 400lb heavier than the S-Series it replaces, but hardly different.
    >
    I'll give a better example - GM's new H2, a tank-like vehicle that gets 10-12 mpg.
     
  14. Cucycln

    Cucycln Guest

    Doesn't take much money to put a bomb on your belt and walk into a shopping mall. So you don't need
    much financing. Hence: stop driving all those Honda civics....your supporting a poor welfare
    terrorists! "Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Tom Keats" <[email protected]_SPAM.vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Maybe it's not so much SUVs per se being picked on, as the marketing-push to pump so many of
    > > those thirsty, climate changing, supersized behemoths into the world.
    >
    > Climate changing? Whose climate has been changed by SUV's?
    >
    > Dave
     
  15. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:47:05 -0600, <[email protected]>, "Mark Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have had three economy cars and I hated them.

    They probably hated you too.
    --
    zk
     
  16. "Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > > Maybe it's not so much SUVs per se being picked on, as the
    marketing-push to pump so many of those thirsty, climate changing, supersized behemoths into
    the world.
    >
    > Climate changing? Whose climate has been changed by SUV's?

    Nevermind, he's just being shrill, hysterical and hyperbolic.
     
  17. "Edward Dike, III" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Recognize the crusade for what it is driven by.... The politics of envy:
    If I can't have one, or don't want one; then you should not be allowed one.

    Bingo. What he said.
     
  18. "Mike Latondresse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > If you don't like what I drive, fuck you!
    > >
    > Actually we don't have a clue what you drive, it's you we don't like.

    Who is "we"? Do you speak for everyone but Mike? What does it take to get into your club?
     
  19. In article <[email protected]>, Mark Jones wrote:
    > "Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> I don't car what anyone drives. I do care that we pay drivers
    > (particularly
    >> urban, solo, peak hour drivers) thousands a year to drive. We spend
    > nearly
    >> as much "defending" oil (and defending against terrorism fomented by our defense) as we pay for
    >> it. This alone is at least a quarter a gallon.
    > But
    >> compared to "free" parking, police and fire service, etc. it is small.
    > But
    >> you will never see that story in the auto-ad sponsored media.
    > I am well aware of the fact that a large part of my tax money goes to the U.S. military to help
    > ensure the continued flow of oil. That is one of the prices we have to be willing to accept.

    So you're comfortable with telling mothers of soldiers that come home in body bags that they died
    for your gas addiction? You're comfortable knowing that the blood of the thousands that died on 9/11
    is in part on your hands? If you can live with that, more power to you. I'd prefer to see us change
    our ways, personally.

    Preston
     
  20. Ken -Lsqny)

    Ken -Lsqny) Guest

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:00:13 -0500, Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> spewed:

    >"Ken [NY)" wrote:
    >>
    >> And don't forget Ms. Ariana Huffington, one of the other "experts" with the Detroit
    >> Project. She owns a private jet. Talk about oil usage. But of course she would not want
    >> you to chose to drive a frigging 4X4!
    >
    >I get your point, Ken. We need to raise taxes on those rich celebrities, so they can't afford such
    >extravagance. Good idea!

    Ms. Huffington is a fiscal conservative who is in favor of less taxes, by the way. And
    raising taxes on her would just force her to put her money in tax shelters or tax free
    bonds instead of the economy. I don't think we want to see that. I just don't like the
    people who drive big gas guzzlers or aircraft telling others that they shouldn't have
    the right to own gas guzzlers. And I'll make a bet that neither Ms. Huffington or
    anybody else with the Detroit Project even sees the irony in that.

    Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    ____________________________________

    A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm

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