Two TDF being contested?

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by Flyer, Jul 17, 2005.

  1. Eldrack

    Eldrack New Member

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    The problem at the moment is no one has any confidence in the tests, sure they catch some people but they don't catch enough for people to believe they are valid. Based on the assumption that lots of people dope then the tests are crap.

    Simple solution to this, make the pro tour teams pay lots of money to help fund the drug tests to improve them. If everyone pays money to the doping authorities then no one can be accussed of trying to "buy them off" and you get better tests.
     


  2. rejobako

    rejobako New Member

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    Oh, there would be plenty of people who would risk the future of the sport for the chance to bring down Lance Armstrong. Like any high-profile public figure, he has been the target for quick-money schemes by a few people who can claim some association with him, but fortunately, most of these people are too stupid to concoct a story with any credibility. I especially liked the recent one from Dave Anderson, who, after failing in his attempt to extort $500,000 from Armsrong, suddenly remembers "cleaning Armstrong's bathroom" and finding a vial of some drug with a sinister label that looked "something like Androstenin". :rolleyes: Of course, he can't prove anything . . . but what's proof got to do with a quick extortion scheme?

    Certainly there is doping, and I'm guessing there are those who dope who manage to evade detection for periods of time. But to say that everyone in the sport is complicit in the doping of all the athletes, or that specific teams (one in particular) have been doping for a decade and everyone has managed to evade detection despite the closest scrutiny from their competitors, the authorities and the countless scumbags who would love to try to make a dollar/Euro by breaking the news . . . . it just doesn't compute. If and when anyone can prove Armstrong was juiced at any time during his tenure, it'll be on the news wires faster than Flyer can type "tous dope".
     
  3. House

    House Banned

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    I could have sworn it was weight not height that had the biggest affect. A guy who diets and does exclusive mountain training from late April until the Tour, someone who has shown good climbing skills in the past following wheels in the mountains until the last 50 meters doesn't make sense???? Uh, yeah, ok.:rolleyes:
     
  4. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Coming to take you away??

    Doping apology not accepted.

    Glad you're enjoying the rants of the dopers now!

    Cheers to secret sauces!

     
  5. sonicman

    sonicman New Member

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    Maybe they can catch these guys in the tests, but they don´t do this because it would eliminate 99% of the cyclists...

    Frigo´s wife was caught with the drugs but he was not caught in the anti doping...
     
  6. VeloFlash

    VeloFlash New Member

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    Obviously you are not aware of the facts. There was no "extortion" (meaning drug taking revelations) in the original documents filed by Anderson.

    The revelations came from Anderson's second or third deposition provided at the request of the judge. The judge wanted more information/detail. I suspect about the timing and breakdown of the relationship between Anderson & LA. The timing coincided with the discovery of the drugs by Anderson.

    Armstrong had provided Anderson an offer to settle with a sting in its tail. Automatic liquidated damages of a huge sum if Anderson mentioned anything about LA, damaging or complimentary. LA had something serious to hide.
     
  7. VeloFlash

    VeloFlash New Member

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    If you are using Flyer as your credible source on this opinion I suggest your read all his anti AIS posts where he has been discredited.
    I believe this link to be the original source of the ABC report http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/050714/3/capf.html
    The concerns about doping in tennis related mainly to women who were bulking up to play the man's style power game. High level ranking in the man's game is dependent upon excellence of motor skills and hand/eye coordination not sustainable power output.
    I recall a comment by Paul Sherwin during the early Lance years of TdF domination when the Tour was approaching Paris. He said with words to the effect:

    "It is noticeable that the clamping down on drugs in France has had an effect on French riders in this Tour. For the first time a French rider has not won a stage and a French rider holds the "Lantern Rouge" ("red light" for last place)."
     
  8. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    read about horse hormones,syringes and the performance evaluation programs in:

    Robert Anderson's AIS doping report:

    www.dcita.gov.au/?a=16787

    See if you can't find any illegal doping in this report or why David French (Mark's father) says the AIS turns a blind eye to doping.

    It's all there for you to read.
     
  9. VeloFlash

    VeloFlash New Member

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    The Anderson Report is the "evidence" from Flyer to support his allegations. He initially referred to it as "damning". On this claim he stood very much alone and failed to provide sustainable references or support from other commentators.

    As an indication of Flyer's state of mind, he then claimed the Report was "preordained" which would suggest to any reader the contents could be construed as being a pre-arranged whitewash. Flyer's change of position was the antithesis to his first "damning" position.

    But, wait there is more. Flyer altered his position again another 180 degrees and changed his position back to "damning". We have been waiting patiently for him to back up this change. I suspect Flyer's "Google" has been getting a good workout.
     
  10. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Did you pick up those spent syringes yet? One puncture will retard your pursuit time.

    Horse hormones aside:

    1) Robert Anderson's report is damning is many ways
    a) he embarrasses management, Barras, Flynn and Dr. Barnes too (lack of supervison)
    b) he portrays Mark French as both a liar and a doper
    c) he points out a system in confict: Performance grading and ant-dope policy seem at odds
    d) he points out that the Police were called 4 months after a crime was committed!

    2) He lists EquiGen and TestComp as illegal drugs

    3) Quote David French as claiming "the AIS turns a blind eye to doping"

    4) In conclusion he then---he ordains the entire mess clean!!! ---letting Dajka & French swing in the wind!

    Oh it's damning and sad--all at the same time.

    You must be so proud of your hormones, syringes and retired judges.

    No wonder LA gets away with it---everbody does!
     
  11. VeloFlash

    VeloFlash New Member

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    Not in the Anderson report. You are drawing your own opinion.
    Not in his terms of reference nor mentioned in the Report. The inquiry giving rise to the Report was conducted and reported after Mark French's CAS Hearing. Note the date of the Report, Flyer, 27 October 2004. French's Hearing and sanction occurred in June 2004.
    This is another Flyerism. I cannot see any reference to this claim in the Report nor wonder why this comparison would be raised.
    And goes into detail in Paras 99 and 100. His conclusion, nothing sinister, that the investigators initially treated it as a drugs in sport issue not a criminal matter. However, flyer sees it as sinister.
    Correct. However, he was relying on an opinion of Dr Barnes that Testicomp contained illegal PED substances as disclosed on the label. French's successful appeal was based upon that label disclosure being incorrect as independently lab tested.
    Report date again Flyer. French had been found to have breached the anti doping rules by CAS hearing in June 2004. French's father claimed after the Hearing award was made against his son that the AIS had a duty of care to ensure his son should not have been in a position to breach anti doping rules. This was based upon his son being found to have been in breach and not from any other claim.
    Was not in the terms of reference to form that opinion nor did he form that opinion. Flyer, why don't you read and digest the terms of reference. It was not for Anderson to report on matters other than Terms of Reference 4 and 5 which are:

    4. The adequacy of management and supervision of athletes at Australian
    Institute of Sport Del Monte during 2003 in respect of detection and
    prevention of doping offences.

    5. The appropriateness and effectiveness of steps taken by the Australian
    Sports Commission, Cycling Australia or any other relevant organisation
    following the discovery on 2 December 2003 at Australian Institute of Sport
    Del Monte of materials indicating that possible doping offences may have
    been committed.


    Flyer, can you explain how his report could have altered the outcome for French given Anderson's terms of reference? Dajka was not at issue here.
     
  12. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Bradley McGee & Baden Cooke bad cyclists???

    Hmmmmm??

    Me thinks their drugs might not be the same--but they can race with anyone anytime--except when fraud, doping and horse hormones get in the way.



     
  13. Ullefan

    Ullefan New Member

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    Excuse my ignorance, but who is this Mark French we talk about? :eek:
     
  14. mr tibbs

    mr tibbs New Member

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    i think all the top contenders are doping. they have to. it's just like america's football and baseball leagues. drugs get results get success get money--and everyone wants to be a winner. it comes down to this: if one guy does it he will win, so everyone else has to do it, too, just to compete.

    i wish it wasn't so.


    if you read my posts you'll gather i'm a jan fan, but i think he's doping, too. same with basso and lance.

    here's hoping that i'm wrong...:(
     
  15. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    From cyclingnews.com this morning:

    New "explosive" EPO driving TdF speed? UCI doc doubts it

    Could a new anemia drug called Cera from Swiss pharmaceutical giant Roche could be replacing EPO in the peloton? Recently, Roche announced that an extension of a continued Phase II trial, which was a year-long study of 61 patients, showed Cera could be used in one dose every four weeks to control hemoglobin levels in patients undergoing dialysis. Hemoglobin is the protein that binds with oxygen in red blood cells. Cera works by stimulating red blood cell production, which is lower than normal in anemia sufferers. Francaise des Jeux team doctor Gerard Guillame gave an interview to Le Figaro where he talked about a new type of "explosive" EPO that passes through the system in only 24 hours.

    Some new drug may be an easy answer for the reason for the record speed of this year's Tour de France, but Dr. Mario Zorzoli of the UCI is skeptical. "I wouldn't say that there's anything to suspect in this year's Tour", Zorzoli told Italian sports newspaper La Gazetta dello Sport. "It's actually the contrary. It's not that the riders [blood] parameters are at the limits; we've seen a general lowering of the values of many values, like haemoglobin, and haematocrit."

    Regarding the supposed existence of a new, explosive EPO and the UCI doctor said "We've heard of EPO of human origin, but that's nothing new. There's a new protein called Cera that attaches to the receptors of EPO and has the same effect. It's not on the [pharmaceutical] market yet and it's not on the banned list yet, but in any case, we have the means to detect [it]. We've even tested for it, but have not found any."

    Zorzoli concluded by debunking the idea of a new "explosive" EPO that passes through the system in 24 hours, saying "any kind of EPO, no matter how fast it passes through the system, changes other blood parameters. So it's detectable."

     
  16. mitosis

    mitosis New Member

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    The best of the best triathletes time trial in the early 40 kph's. The worst of the TdeF cyclist TT at just under 50.
     
  17. rejobako

    rejobako New Member

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    Armstrong sued him. Anderson counterclaimed and had no leg to stand on, so they concocted this business about "androstenin" and tried to make a quick buck by extorting $500,000. Armstrong told him to shove it.

    In the meantime, if Armstrong offered a monetary sum to settle, I am unaware of it; I'd appreciate a link to that, if you please, because it is typically an ethical violation for a party to provide details of settlement negotiations in pending litigation. However, presuming such an offer was made, it would be asinine for Armstrong to agree to pay a man money without ensuring that he will not "suddenly remember" additional revelations after the settlement check is cashed. Settlements of this kind are always accompanied by mutual releases and confidentiality/muzzle provisions. That doesn't necessarily mean the paying party has something to hide -- it often means he doesn't want to be badgered by the same scumbag when he runs out of money.

    You may well be more up to speed on the reported facts of the Anderson suit, but you have a lot to learn about how lawsuits are settled.
     
  18. Ted B

    Ted B New Member

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    Like (significant) usage of EPO, it is detectable by the simplest test of all, a hematocrit.
     
  19. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    So Frigo who tested positive in 2001 but was never caught again by testers was found 4 years later with a car full of the stuff !

    So he and his wife just like carrying it around France when a really big bike race just happened to be on ?


     
  20. Ted B

    Ted B New Member

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    My point is that EPO (and any other compound that stimulates RBC synthesis) works by raising one's hematocrit. If he's not failing a hematocrit screen, then it seems logical to assume he's not getting much out of it.
     
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