Types of CF

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Kenny Lee, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Kenny Lee

    Kenny Lee Guest

    Does anyone know the differences in CF? Several people in our group have gone and purchased CF bike
    frames made by Giant. On a C40 the CF is encased in clear coat to protect the CF. On the Giant
    frames there isn't any clear coat. The Giant bikes has what appears to be a pattern of woven
    man-made material but the surface is smooth to the touch similiar to 'hard' plastic. When first
    noticing this difference several of us asked our 'insider' who works at Giant to take us on a tour
    of their CF frame manufacturing plant. He tells us even he doesn't have acess to this area. Hearing
    this just makes me more curious. Can anyone enlighten me?

    Thanks, Kenny Lee
     
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  2. In article <[email protected]>,
    Kenny Lee <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Does anyone know the differences in CF? Several people in our group have gone and purchased CF
    > bike frames made by Giant. On a C40 the CF is encased in clear coat to protect the CF. On the
    > Giant frames there isn't any clear coat. The Giant bikes has what appears to be a pattern of woven
    > man-made material but the surface is smooth to the touch similiar to 'hard' plastic. When first
    > noticing this difference several of us asked our 'insider' who works at Giant to take us on a tour
    > of their CF frame manufacturing plant. He tells us even he doesn't have acess to this area.
    > Hearing this just makes me more curious. Can anyone enlighten me?
    >
    > Thanks, Kenny Lee

    Carbon Fibre is basically fibreglass matting, except the heavy glass in the mat has been replaced
    with very light carbon fibres.

    Basic CF technology involves laying up the matting in layers, and then pouring the (clear) epoxy
    over the matting. It hardens, forming a composite consisting of a hard resin holding the strong
    carbon in place. The hard plastic you feel is basically just what it looks like.

    There are complications: better parts are vacuum-formed, and you often have to build up parts one
    layer at a time, but the basic composition of CF matting encased in hard resin never changes.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  3. Pete Russell

    Pete Russell Guest

    Well almost right what you see on the giant is most likely just the outermost layer which is a woven
    layer or cloth the inner layers are very likely unidirectional or all the fibers running in one
    direction this is placed at various angles to achieve the strength in the desired direction on the
    trek's all the layers are unidirectional the carbon fiber is also most likely prepreg this has the
    resin already in the fiber so each layer you put down is fully wet out and you don't have any dry
    spots or voids there could be any number of layers depending on the strength required and the
    thickness of the individual ply's this is then vacuum bagged or compressed to compact the layers.

    Pete

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Kenny Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Does anyone know the differences in CF? Several people in our group have gone and purchased CF
    > > bike frames made by Giant. On a C40 the CF is encased in clear coat to protect the CF. On the
    > > Giant frames there isn't any clear coat. The Giant bikes has what appears to be a pattern of
    > > woven man-made material but the surface is smooth to the touch similiar to 'hard' plastic. When
    > > first noticing this difference several of us asked our 'insider' who works at Giant to take us
    > > on a tour of their CF frame manufacturing plant. He tells us even he doesn't have acess to this
    > > area. Hearing this just makes me more curious. Can anyone enlighten
    me?
    > >
    > > Thanks, Kenny Lee
    >
    > Carbon Fibre is basically fibreglass matting, except the heavy glass in the mat has been replaced
    > with very light carbon fibres.
    >
    > Basic CF technology involves laying up the matting in layers, and then pouring the (clear) epoxy
    > over the matting. It hardens, forming a composite consisting of a hard resin holding the strong
    > carbon in place. The hard plastic you feel is basically just what it looks like.
    >
    > There are complications: better parts are vacuum-formed, and you often have to build up parts one
    > layer at a time, but the basic composition of CF matting encased in hard resin never changes.
    >
    > --
    > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  4. both very good answers

    "Pete Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    Well almost right what you see on the giant is most likely just the outermost layer which is a woven
    layer or cloth the inner layers are very likely unidirectional or all the fibers running in one
    direction this is placed at various angles to achieve the strength in the desired direction on the
    trek's all the layers are unidirectional the carbon fiber is also most likely prepreg this has the
    resin already in the fiber so each layer you put down is fully wet out and you don't have any dry
    spots or voids there could be any number of layers depending on the strength required and the
    thickness of the individual ply's this is then vacuum bagged or compressed to compact the layers.

    Pete

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Kenny Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Does anyone know the differences in CF? Several people in our group have gone and purchased CF
    > > bike frames made by Giant. On a C40 the CF is encased in clear coat to protect the CF. On the
    > > Giant frames there isn't any clear coat. The Giant bikes has what appears to be a pattern of
    > > woven man-made material but the surface is smooth to the touch similiar to 'hard' plastic. When
    > > first noticing this difference several of us asked our 'insider' who works at Giant to take us
    > > on a tour of their CF frame manufacturing plant. He tells us even he doesn't have acess to this
    > > area. Hearing this just makes me more curious. Can anyone enlighten
    me?
    > >
    > > Thanks, Kenny Lee
    >
    > Carbon Fibre is basically fibreglass matting, except the heavy glass in the mat has been replaced
    > with very light carbon fibres.
    >
    > Basic CF technology involves laying up the matting in layers, and then pouring the (clear) epoxy
    > over the matting. It hardens, forming a composite consisting of a hard resin holding the strong
    > carbon in place. The hard plastic you feel is basically just what it looks like.
    >
    > There are complications: better parts are vacuum-formed, and you often have to build up parts one
    > layer at a time, but the basic composition of CF matting encased in hard resin never changes.
    >
    > --
    > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  5. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    ajames54 <[email protected]> wrote in message <snip>
    > >There are complications: better parts are vacuum-formed, and you often have to build up parts one
    > >layer at a time, but the basic composition of CF matting encased in hard resin never changes.
    >
    >
    > Anyway there are a couple of different ways to make the parts, and even the entire bike none of
    > them are particularly secret or difficult to understand. The methods can all be found in a good
    > library and the materials can be purchased in most major metropolitan areas ... Hell if you had a
    > two or three thousand bucks lying around you could set yourself up in your garage! Giant may have
    > some sort of clean room policy in effect but that is about the only reason I can see for
    > restricting access ...well other than the fact that tourists are a PITA.

    Heck, if you want to try it yourself, STFW: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/carbon_fiber.htm

    As to the original poster's description of the appearance of some frames, there's also the
    possibility of the carbon-fiber being interwoven with another material, such as Kevlar. This will
    yield a distinctive black/gold weave. Carbon/kevlar fabric is available from a couple sources:
    http://www.shopmaninc.com/hybrids.html among them.

    Jeff
     
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