typical low-carb meals - what us wrong with this

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Tcomeau, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge any
    anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so dangerous
    about this.

    1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
    veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and vinaigrette
    dressing you want

    2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
    veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
    vinaigrette dressing you want

    Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.

    The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and grains
    and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?

    TC
     
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  2. markd

    markd Guest

    Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb source
    with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high btw? Why
    not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's energy
    requirements?

    >Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
    >any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
    >dangerous about this.
    >
    >1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
    > veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and vinaigrette
    > dressing you want
    >
    >2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
    > veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
    > vinaigrette dressing you want
    >
    >Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.
    >
    >The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
    >grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?
    >
    >TC
     
  3. What's wrong? There's no carbs!

    --
    Frank W. Marrs III Georgia Institute of Technology
    [email protected] <omit "spamguard" to
    email> "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
    > any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
    > dangerous about this.
    >
    > 1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
    > veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
    > vinaigrette dressing you want
    >
    > 2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
    > veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
    > vinaigrette dressing you want
    >
    > Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.
    >
    > The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
    > grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?
    >
    > TC
     
  4. Mirek Fidler

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    > Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    > multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
    > source with an gi/gl = < the
    carrets
    > and peas, both high btw? Why not a moderate carb diet
    > which falls
    within
    > one's energy requirements?

    Let me think... hm.... hm.... what about calories? :)

    Mirek
     
  5. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    >Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    >multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb source
    >with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high btw? Why
    >not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's energy
    >requirements?
    >

    Why add grains in place of much more nutrient dense
    plant foods?

    I don't get you extremists.

    Susan
     
  6. markd

    markd Guest

    The first principle in weight control is to get the energy
    balance in hand, source of the calories doesn't matter. One
    could take any item in the original low carb example and
    reduce it by x calories and add the same x from carb sources
    and the energy balance is intact. Grains are plant foods
    too. The energy concentration of the peas and corn in the
    low carb example are quite similar in energy concentration,
    as measured by gi/gl, to multigraim bread and brown rice.
    Extreme with regard to what?

    >>Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    >>multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
    >>source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high
    >>btw? Why not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's
    >>energy requirements?
    >>
    >
    >Why add grains in place of much more nutrient dense
    >plant foods?
    >
    >I don't get you extremists.
    >
    >Susan
     
  7. markd

    markd Guest

    The other carb sources were to be in place of the peas and
    corn, as mentioned, energy requirements are not to be
    exceeded; thus calories are considered.

    >> Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    >> multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
    >> source with an gi/gl = < the
    >carrets
    >> and peas, both high btw? Why not a moderate carb diet
    >> which falls
    >within
    >> one's energy requirements?
    >
    >Let me think... hm.... hm.... what about calories? :)
    >
    >Mirek
     
  8. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    >The energy concentration of the peas and corn in the low
    >carb example are quite similar in energy concentration, as
    >measured by gi/gl, to multigraim bread and brown rice.
    >Extreme with regard to what?

    Extreme in the belief that it's important to include grains,
    that the meal was deficient without them.

    I'd dump peas and corn for colorful leafies, myself. More
    nutritional bang for the buck, which matters more the
    less one eats.

    Susan
     
  9. markd

    markd Guest

    Of course nothing of the kind was said; nothing about
    important or deficient. The original provided a menu with
    peas and corn as a side, the multigrain bread and brown rice
    are comperable in every way, including nutrition. So again,
    extreme with regard to what? With regard to weight control,
    the concern of the original post menu example, caleries from
    a carb source is just fine as long as the energy balance is
    met and no more. Now you mention nutrition as an additional
    point, we can add it to the energy balance, both easily
    achieved while including a substantual part of food intake
    from carb sources, including those in the leafy greens whose
    color is appealing.

    >Extreme in the belief that it's important to include
    >grains, that the meal was deficient without them.
    >
    >I'd dump peas and corn for colorful leafies, myself. More
    >nutritional bang for the buck, which matters more the less
    >one eats.
    >
    >Susan
     
  10. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    There are as many carbs as one may need unless of course you
    plan to run a marathon. Lots of carbs. You do realize that
    there really is no *essential* carbohydrate, don't you?

    TC

    "Frank W. Marrs III" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:<[email protected]>...
    > What's wrong? There's no carbs!
    >
    > --
    > Frank W. Marrs III Georgia Institute of Technology
    > [email protected] <omit "spamguard" to
    > email> "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
    > > any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
    > > dangerous about this.
    > >
    > > 1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
    > > veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
    > > vinaigrette dressing you want
    > >
    > > 2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
    > > veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
    > > vinaigrette dressing you want
    > >
    > > Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.
    > >
    > > The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
    > > grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?
    > >
    > > TC
     
  11. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    Why a side of grain or tubers? Why multi-grain bread? They
    are unnecessary to a healthy diet.

    I would have a pat of butter on the veggies or some olive
    oil on the stuffed green pepper though. Soooo good and
    satiating, and healthy.

    These meals are moderate carbs and they fall within one's
    energy requirements. Especially if one is not a world class
    athlete like the majority of americans.

    The point is that grains, tubers and sugars are too much for
    our lifestyles.

    TC

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]
    net.com>...
    > Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    > multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
    > source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high
    > btw? Why not a moderate carb diet which falls within one's
    > energy requirements?
    >
    >
    > >Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
    > >any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
    > >dangerous about this.
    > >
    > >1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
    > > veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
    > > vinaigrette dressing you want
    > >
    > >2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
    > > veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
    > > vinaigrette dressing you want
    > >
    > >Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.
    > >
    > >The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
    > >grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?
    > >
    > >TC
     
  12. Mirek Fidler

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    > There are as many carbs as one may need unless of course
    > you plan to run a marathon. Lots of carbs. You do realize
    > that there really is no

    Actually, I believe that for running marathon, fat (dietary
    and then body) is the energy source anyway:)

    Mirek
     
  13. Mirek Fidler

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    > The first principle in weight control is to get the energy
    > balance in hand, source of the calories doesn't matter.
    > One could take any item
    in

    So you do think that by replacing mentioned menu with
    refined sugar with same calories count would be ok ?

    Mirek
     
  14. Mirek Fidler

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    > Of course nothing of the kind was said; nothing about
    > important or deficient. The original provided a menu with
    > peas and corn as a side,
    the
    > multigrain bread and brown rice are comperable in every
    > way, including nutrition. So again, extreme with regard to
    > what? With regard to
    weight

    Well, thinking about it, we somewhat missed OP point...

    So again, do you think that the menu presented is dangerous
    to the health?

    What is so important about bread? And BTW, bread is either
    too high-GI (above 40), or it tastes really bad. I do not
    like low-GI bread and I do not want to eat high-GI one.

    Mirek
     
  15. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    Can you give us an example of your idea of the ideally
    balanced meal?

    TC

    "Frank W. Marrs III" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:<[email protected]>...
    > What's wrong? There's no carbs!
    >
    > --
    > Frank W. Marrs III Georgia Institute of Technology
    > [email protected] <omit "spamguard" to
    > email> "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
    > > any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
    > > dangerous about this.
    > >
    > > 1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
    > > veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
    > > vinaigrette dressing you want
    > >
    > > 2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
    > > veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
    > > vinaigrette dressing you want
    > >
    > > Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.
    > >
    > > The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
    > > grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?
    > >
    > > TC
     
  16. markd

    markd Guest

    "So again, do you think that the menu presented is dangerous
    to the health?"

    No, and the things mentioned that could be substituted were
    equally so. Do you think a diet that meets energy balance
    and nutrition goals and draws upon moderate use of all food
    sources is a threat to health? If one wants to include bread
    in one's diet, do it within those same goals, regardless of
    the gi of bread chosen. However, by definition the nutrition
    goal is better met with breads using whole grains and a
    concern for moderation naturally speaks to quantity of any
    single food. .
     
  17. markd

    markd Guest

    "Ok" is always with regard to some measure/goal. Where
    weight status alone is the hypothetical point with regard to
    energy balance, there is no problem. When nutrition and
    range of food sources is a goal, it would probably not be
    wise on a constant basis. One instance of replacing the
    carbs from peas and corn with sugar is no big deal in and of
    itself, a glass of lemonaid might be such a thing.

    > The first principle in weight control is to get the energy
    > balance in hand, source of the calories doesn't matter.
    > One could take any item
    in

    So you do think that by replacing mentioned menu with
    refined sugar with same calories count would be ok ?
     
  18. markd

    markd Guest

    Just to make the simple point that substutions can easily
    be made with those things you said should be excluded,
    because they are equivalent in carb status. Don't exceed
    calorie requirements, regardless of food sources and you
    will not gain weight, lower energy intake below that needed
    to maintain metabolism and you will lose weight.
    "necessary" to health is based on what? Any food you care
    to mention can easily be excluded without health problems,
    so that statement helps us not one bit. Eating many carb
    source foods increases the probability that the nutrition
    required for health will be there, including those in
    grains and tubers.

    >Why a side of grain or tubers? Why multi-grain bread? They
    >are unnecessary to a healthy diet.
    >
    >I would have a pat of butter on the veggies or some olive
    >oil on the stuffed green pepper though. Soooo good and
    >satiating, and healthy.
    >
    >These meals are moderate carbs and they fall within one's
    >energy requirements. Especially if one is not a world class
    >athlete like the majority of americans.
    >
    >The point is that grains, tubers and sugars are too much
    >for our lifestyles.
    >
    >TC
    >
    >[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]
    >n et.com>...
    >> Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    >> multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
    >> source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both high
    >> btw? Why not a moderate carb diet which falls within
    >> one's energy requirements?
    >>
    >>
    >> >Here are a couple of typical low-carb meals. I challenge
    >> >any anti-atkins people to explain what is wrong and so
    >> >dangerous about this.
    >> >
    >> >1) 4 ounces of chicken, beef, fish, pork or lamb side of
    >> > veggies - carrots and peas all the salad and
    >> > vinaigrette dressing you want
    >> >
    >> >2) 4 ounces of bbq steak, ribs, or chicken mushroom and
    >> > veggie stuffed green pepper all the summer salad and
    >> > vinaigrette dressing you want
    >> >
    >> >Sounds downright dangerous doesn't it.
    >> >
    >> >The only thing being restricted is refined sugars and
    >> >grains and high-starch tubers. Scary, eh?
    >> >
    >> >TC
     
  19. Tintinet

    Tintinet Guest

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Why not a side of grain or tubers? Why not a side of
    > multigrain bread with butter? Why not any other carb
    > source with an gi/gl = < the carrets and peas, both
    > high btw?

    Actually, the carrot deal appears to be a mistake- go ahead
    and crunch'em!

    A recent issue of the newsletter Harvard Women's Health
    Watch ranked some foods by both GI and GL. For a baked
    potato, the calculation went like this: 37 (grams of
    carbohydrate in a serving) multiplied by 1.21 (GI) equals
    45. That's still high in a ranking of foods by glycemic
    load. Air-popped popcorn, though, went from a high GI of
    79 to a low GL of 4. Corn chips fell from 105 to a
    moderate GL of 16. Carrots dropped from Harvard's oddly
    high GI of 131 to a GL of 10. Remember, serving size
    counts: That's a cup of popcorn, an ounce of corn chips
    and a half cup of cooked carrots.

    And carrots' stock goes up even further. The widely used
    glycemic indexing of carrots at 92 (not to mention that
    131) was faulty, according to Australian researcher Dr.
    Jennie Brand-Miller, a leader in the field and author of
    "The Glucose Revolution." She told me by e-mail that a
    later, less publicized test put carrots' GI at 49, and very
    recent tests under her watch found boiled carrots to have a
    GI of 32 and carrot juice 43. That would give carrots a GL
    between 3 and 4.

    "I think the glycemic load is shaping up to be a valuable
    concept," said Brand-Miller. "A diet with a very high GL
    should be avoided. This means that the higher the
    carbohydrate content of your diet, the more important it is
    that the carbohydrate comes from low-GI sources."

    Though a proponent of GI and GL awareness — she's working to
    develop a program that would allow low-glycemic-index foods
    to be labeled as such — Brand-Miller cautions against taking
    it to extremes.

    "I don't think we should be necessarily aiming for a diet
    with the lowest GL," she said. "While the worst choice is a
    high-cholesterol, high-GI diet, the best choice is still
    being sorted out."

    Molly Martin is assistant editor of Pacific Northwest
    magazine. She can be reached by calling 206-464-8243, e-
    mailing [email protected] or writing her at Pacific
    Northwest magazine, The Seattle Times, P.O. Box 70,
    Seattle, WA 98111.
     
  20. Moosh:)

    Moosh:) Guest

    On 17 Mar 2004 07:08:27 -0800, [email protected] (tcomeau) posted:

    >Can you give us an example of your idea of the ideally
    >balanced meal?

    A varied, wholefood, eucaloric diet and you won't go far
    wrong. No point excluding any wholefoods unless they affect
    you badly (allergies etc). So long as you get essential
    micronutrients, and about 50g of balanced amino acids, then
    the rest is meant to be enjoyed.
     
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