Tyre recommendations



C

Christo

Guest
Hi there,

I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms ,
the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture resistant.

I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better than
the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty pricey.

I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If so,
how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped out to
save $100.

I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.

I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may have.
I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off either.

For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and bike
paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).

Cheers,
Christo.
 
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:28:13 +1100, Christo wrote:

> I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
> Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms ,
> the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
> in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture resistant.


I also found the 25mm Michelins on my OCR3 very puncture-prone. I replaced
them with cheap 23mm Continentals (Grand Prix S IIRC, about $30 each from
my LBS), and have had very few since, although I don't ride that bike much
anymore.

It's not that all Michelins are bad, though - I've also found the Pro Race,
which I ride a lot, to get very few punctures too.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
 
"Christo" <[email protected]> writes:

> I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
> Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
> visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better than
> the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty pricey.


I find 100 bucks a tire expensive but I guess that's a question of how
much you value performance.

> I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
> including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If so,
> how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped out to
> save $100.


Not dealt with them myself but plenty in a.b have. Pretty solid outfit
from what I've seen here.

> I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
> any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.


Nope, that'll be fine.

> I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may have.
> I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off either.


I use a Continental Gatorskin on the rear which costs about 45 bucks and
a Schwalbe Stelvio Plus on the front which is about 70 bucks.

The Conti is the most puncture resistant tire I've used and is pretty
hard wearing. It's a bit ordinary in the wet grip wise though.

I use the Schwalbe on the front as it's a much grippier tire and that
improves my braking. It's not quite as durable as the Conti but it's
performs great.

300 a week virtually all road. St Kilda Road most days so plenty bogan
droppings.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
 
Christo wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
> Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms ,
> the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
> in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture resistant.
>
> I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
> Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
> visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better than
> the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty pricey.
>
> I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
> including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If so,
> how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped out to
> save $100.
>
> I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
> any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.
>
> I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may have.
> I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off either.
>
> For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and bike
> paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).
>
> Cheers,
> Christo.
>
>


I had no probs with the Michelins that came on my OCR2. I had one
puncture in a year and then the rubber wore through so I replaced them
with GP3000s.

DaveB
 
Christo said:
Hi there,

I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms ,
the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture resistant.

I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better than
the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty pricey.

I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If so,
how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped out to
save $100.

I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.

I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may have.
I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off either.

For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and bike
paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).

Cheers,
Christo.
Christo I've had no problems with probikekit. The longest I've had to wait for delivery was 2 1/2 weeks, but I've had stuff delivered inside a week. $39.08 for the GP4000 at PBK +18.99 delivery, although if you want black ones they are currently out of stock....bless you ebay for coming to the rescue. I've had no punctures in my GP4000's in 3700km...well I'm not counting the slash.

There was a tyre thread last week, just scroll down the page.

No problems putting a 23mm on.
 
"DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christo wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which
>> runs Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after
>> 2200kms , the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my
>> 3rd puncture in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more
>> puncture resistant.
>>
>> I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
>> Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
>> visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better
>> than the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty
>> pricey.
>>
>> I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
>> including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If
>> so, how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped
>> out to save $100.
>>
>> I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's)
>> without any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.
>>
>> I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may
>> have. I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off
>> either.
>>
>> For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and
>> bike paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Christo.

>
> I had no probs with the Michelins that came on my OCR2. I had one puncture
> in a year and then the rubber wore through so I replaced them with
> GP3000s.
>
> DaveB


700*23c Michelin Carbon was recommended to me as a good training tyre with
puncture resistance and longevity. Sells for about $65 per tyre if I
recall...... See Reviews in www.roadbikereview.com.
 
On 2006-01-11, Christo (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Hi there,
>
> I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
> Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms ,
> the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
> in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture resistant.


Heh. I was happy with the stock tires, but not the Rubino Pro folding
tires I replaced them with a month or two ago.

> I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
> Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
> visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better than
> the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty pricey.
>
> I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
> including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If so,
> how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped out to
> save $100.


Yep, we all shop at probikekit -- of all things, don't buy tires in
..au -- for the price of one tire here, you can get 2 tires + shipping
from probikekit. Get a few extra toys while at it to make the
shipping go further. Dunno why tires in particular are so much more
expensive here.

> I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
> any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.


Yep, I'm running them with no troubles.

> I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may have.
> I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off either.


Most people here swear by the GP4000s.

> For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and bike
> paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).


Yep, you'll be right on the 23s.

--
TimC
> So, what do *you* do for a living?

I sit in a chair, pressing small plastic rectangles with my fingers
while peering at many tiny, colored dots. -- Peter Manders
 
"Christo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi there,
>
> I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
> Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms

,
> the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
> in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture

resistant.
>
> I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
> Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
> visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better

than
> the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty

pricey.
>
> I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
> including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If

so,
> how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped out

to
> save $100.
>
> I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
> any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.
>
> I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may

have.
> I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off either.
>
> For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and bike
> paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).
>
> Cheers,
> Christo.
>
>

The best investment I ever made to reduce punctures was forking out $80 or
so for a decent track pump and then keeping the pressures at 110 psi. I was
in Canberra at the time and commuting 18km each way to and from work along a
combination of bike paths and roads. I used to get flats pretty regularly
and got to the stage where I had 3 flats in a week and someone suggested
that I get a track pump. I started checking tyre pressures every morning
(takes less than 2 minutes) and then did about 4000km before getting my next
puncture (tyres were pretty thin by this stage anyway).

Gags
 
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:46:54 +1100, Gags wrote:

> The best investment I ever made to reduce punctures was forking out $80 or
> so for a decent track pump and then keeping the pressures at 110 psi. I was
> in Canberra at the time and commuting 18km each way to and from work along a
> combination of bike paths and roads. I used to get flats pretty regularly
> and got to the stage where I had 3 flats in a week and someone suggested
> that I get a track pump. I started checking tyre pressures every morning
> (takes less than 2 minutes) and then did about 4000km before getting my next
> puncture (tyres were pretty thin by this stage anyway).


Were you getting pinch flats, or just more single ones?

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
 
Tires/Tyres can be a pain to find what suits you, your weight and the pressures you can get into them, BUT the most important thing Ive found is not the tyres, not the tubes, not the rims BUT the RIM TAPE....


I was getting heaps of pinch flats on my 700x23s , one after the other, always had correct pressures ( at least 110psi) and never a piercing in site .. I was using a variety of tyres, Rubino Pro, Cefira Speeds, Conti's, Mich...etc...pumped on a track pump and always, always at rec. pressure....

but no matter the RIM TAPE was my problem, it was too narrow and moved under the tube inside the rim, exposing the tube to spoke flanges and , with heaps of revolutions it was a statistical certainty that a bump would hit a spot where the flange could "pinch"the tube..and voila it happened heaps....

So I checked the rim tapes on all my wheels and found that those I'd had fitted in various bike shops were all too narrow and those I had done myself were actually fine, well seated and never going to move to cause a pinch....well I pondered this and asked a friend in an LBS "why is it so?"....

He said it has been very common over the past year or too as a major supplier of rim tapes bought in a huge shipment of narrow tapes and sold them off cheap to all and sundry, not realising they were pretty useless...and not telling the LBS's either...who thought they got a good deal too....but flooded the market with narrow tape which found its way into most repairers workshops...

anyway , if you have had a lot of flats and cant find a thorn, glass, or metal piece as the culprit, check your rim tapes, you'll find it probably too narrow...you'll need at least 17mm rim tape for road wheels to be secure...

you could ride singles and take your chances too I guess....

My current config as follows, and no flats for yonks...all folding 700x23 tyres and standard tubes BUT 17mm min rim tape...

Racing Bike : Maxxis Columbierres $70 each - run at 130psi and are bullet proof
Training Bike : Cefira Speed ( Made in Thailand specced by Ex- Vittoria engineers) $45 each, run at 110 psi , but can ably handle 120psi and are great value, last ages and ride superbly well ( use the Cefira Criteriums too on spare wheels, but they are a bit lighter and a bit more fragile, so dont expect miles from the beyond about 2000Klm before they show serious signs of use.)
 
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:47:46 +1100, rooman wrote:

> Tires/Tyres can be a pain to find what suits you, your weight and the
> pressures you can get into them, BUT the most important thing Ive found
> is not the tyres, not the tubes, not the rims BUT the RIM TAPE....


Good point. I'd forgotten that the OCR3's wheels come with nasty,
stiff, narrow plastic rim tape, similar to the stuff used to bind up
large boxes.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
 
Christo said:
Hi there,

I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms ,
the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture resistant.

I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better than
the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty pricey.

I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If so,
how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped out to
save $100.

I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.

I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may have.
I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off either.

For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and bike
paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).

Cheers,
Christo.
ProbikeKit rooooooooocks.... I should have kept a track of the amont of money I have saved, buying from them, excellent, quick, shipping.
 
MikeyOz said:
ProbikeKit rooooooooocks.... I should have kept a track of the amont of money I have saved, buying from them, excellent, quick, shipping.
Ahhh, so thats how its done. Keep track of how much has been saved, not how much I've spent. I guess that way I still have more money to spend on bits and pieces because i have saved so much :D

Ash
 
Christo <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
> Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms ,
> the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd puncture
> in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture resistant.


Continental Gatorskins. I do 250km per week, all tar/pavement. The only
punctures I've had are from nails or screws. I haven't yet had glass
penetrate them, but maybe I've been lucky. Best deal I've seen is from
probikekit at around $30 each but you need to order other stuff to
making the shipping cost worthwhile. They seem to last too, I'm on about
3000km on the current pair and I expect they'll go another 2000.

--
..dt
 
rooman wrote:
> Tires/Tyres can be a pain to find what suits you, your weight and the
> pressures you can get into them, BUT the most important thing Ive found
> is not the tyres, not the tubes, not the rims BUT the RIM TAPE....
>
>
> I was getting heaps of pinch flats on my 700x23s , one after the other,
> always had correct pressures ( at least 110psi) and never a piercing in
> site .. I was using a variety of tyres, Rubino Pro, Cefira Speeds,
> Conti's, Mich...etc...pumped on a track pump and always, always at rec.
> pressure....
>
> but no matter the RIM TAPE was my problem, it was too narrow and moved
> under the tube inside the rim, exposing the tube to spoke flanges and ,
> with heaps of revolutions it was a statistical certainty that a bump
> would hit a spot where the flange could "pinch"the tube..and voila it
> happened heaps....


rim, flange ... hehhehehe

> So I checked the rim tapes on all my wheels and found that those I'd
> had fitted in various bike shops were all too narrow and those I had
> done myself were actually fine, well seated and never going to move to
> cause a pinch....well I pondered this and asked a friend in an LBS "why
> is it so?"....


I've had no pinch flats that I can recall in the last 2 years (some
35,000km or so, at least) using Zefal rim tape and a combination of the
following tyres :

As a general rule, I turf a tyre when it's had 2 punctures or it's worn
square (rear) and the handling of the bike is noticably compromised.

Bontrager race-x-lite - these were great, I chewed the rear out to the
canvas in 3,300km, the front has done 6000 and is still ok - *no*
punctures with these at all (until the rear wore through .. but that's
a given!)

Conti gatorskins - mixed experience with these - the rears chew out
pretty quickly and they're slippery. Ok for commuting I guess. I got
a lot of punctures with these despite the claim of super puncture
resistance. I won't use these again, but would fit them on a commuter
if I wasn't interested in racing or riding in the wet.

Maxxis Detonator - cheap and *nasty* these tyres belong on a bike that
never gets ridden, or a bin.

Michelin Eriulum (these replaced the megamium? basically the same tyre
I think) - not all that impressed, slippery. Not on my bike again,
ever.

Michelin Carbon - they wear ok, but I found them distressingly slippery
in the wet. Ok in the dry though. Not on my bike again, ever.

Vittoria Rubino Pro - I have one on my wet weather (trek 1400) bike on
the front, it's done ~8,000km, no puntures, grippy and fast rolling. I
like these tyres a lot. I used them for the Warny in 2004. Lovely
tyres. These rock.

I've used the older Michelin Pro-races but I only got around
1,500-2000km out of them before they were worn to the belts, the
rubino's in my experience are just as fast and grippy, and last 2-3
times longer. Maybe the PR2 is better? I haven't used them, can't
comment.

My current tyres on my bikes are :
Bontrager race-lites on the Madone "****** one". Haven't used these
before, they've got about 1,000km on them so far. A little wet riding
and they felt ok, but they have tread, so I'm not sure they're that
good a cornering tyre. I have a pair of race-x-lite SC's ready for
road season sitting in the box of spares. I've done two crits on these
and they're not bad for fast cornering, but they're not as nice as the
race-x-lites were.

Rubino Pro (F)/Michelin "el cheapo" (can't remember the name of it, gum
sidewall, red strip, black rubber) (R) on the Trek 1400. As above, the
Rubino has been on the front for about 8,000km and hasn't punctured at
all, and is fast and grippy. It's getting a bit worn now, but I reckon
it'll go another 1000 or so. the Miche on the back is on a shimano
R550 wheel (place your bets!) while I retension my new 105/open pro
rear wheel. It's not raced, but it's grippy enough, slow tyre ... but
thus far (500km?) no problems.
 
Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:

> Maxxis Detonator - cheap and *nasty* these tyres belong on a bike that
> never gets ridden, or a bin.


Ah, thanks for the reminder. I need to throw a pair out. Virtually
unworn but after punctures at least every 2 days, off they came. Think
I'll cut them up before throwing them out so some unfortunate soul
doesn't rescue them from the bin and try use them. Won't even use them
on the mag trainer, I suspect they'd manage to puncture there too. ;)

> Bontrager race-lites on the Madone "****** one". Haven't used these
> before, they've got about 1,000km on them so far. A little wet riding


:( I killed my rear race-lite on my 2300 after 1000km with a huge screw.
Tried to keep using it but the damage on the inside surface of the tyre
was enough to abraid the tube after 50km or so. Seemed an okay tyre up
until then


--
..dt
 
dtmeister wrote:
> Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Maxxis Detonator - cheap and *nasty* these tyres belong on a bike that
> > never gets ridden, or a bin.

>
> Ah, thanks for the reminder. I need to throw a pair out. Virtually
> unworn but after punctures at least every 2 days, off they came. Think
> I'll cut them up before throwing them out so some unfortunate soul
> doesn't rescue them from the bin and try use them. Won't even use them
> on the mag trainer, I suspect they'd manage to puncture there too. ;)


I use old Megamiums on the spinner - they're quiet(relatively) and it
doesn't matter that they're slippery and chewed flat (it'll happen
anyway :) )
 
essendon93 said:
Christo I've had no problems with probikekit. The longest I've had to wait for delivery was 2 1/2 weeks, but I've had stuff delivered inside a week. $39.08 for the GP4000 at PBK +18.99 delivery, although if you want black ones they are currently out of stock....bless you ebay for coming to the rescue. I've had no punctures in my GP4000's in 3700km...well I'm not counting the slash.

There was a tyre thread last week, just scroll down the page.

No problems putting a 23mm on.
PBK currently has a promotion of another 5% off ending Saturday - promotion code X090106

I have Rubino Pro on the fixed gear commuter - only 1000K but has stood up well so far to the extra skidding and the crappy surface of the bike path. I rate them better than Conti GP3000's.
 
"Christo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi there,
>
> I've recently got back into cycling and bought a new Giant OCR3 which runs
> Michelin 700*25 tyres on it. Whilst the bike itself is fine after 2200kms
> , the tyres have been a let down literally. I've just copped my 3rd
> puncture in 11 days (6th or 7th overall) and want something more puncture
> resistant.
>
> I've seen the Continental GP4000's reviewed in the latest Bicycling
> Australia mag. They reckon they are resistant to puncture and showed no
> visible signs of damage after 1500kms of use. They'd have to be better
> than the Michelins I've got now. However at $100 each RRP, they're pretty
> pricey.


An Australian company/online store; www.cyclebits.com has them for $59.95
each plus shipping.

Declaring interest: Company run by President of my cycling club.

Cheers

Beanzy

>
> I see that http://www.probikekit.com/ has them at about half that price,
> including shipping. Has anyone shopped through their website before? If
> so, how were they? I'd be willing to wait a few weeks to get them shipped
> out to save $100.
>
> I'm assuming I can run 700*23 tyres on my bikes rims (Alex DA22's) without
> any problems. Feel free to correct me if not the case.
>
> I'd also appreciate any other recommendations on tyres that people may
> have. I don't mind paying for quality, but don't wanna be ripped off
> either.
>
> For the record, I do about 200kms per week, on a mixture of roads and bike
> paths (mostly sealed, although occasionally gravel).
>
> Cheers,
> Christo.
>
 
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the responses and advice. I think I might get a pair ordered
in and try them out.

For the record, I have a good floor pump and keep the pressure up in my
current tyres and still get the punctures. Never had a pinch flat, just
punctures from glass and metal pieces.

Cheers,
Christo.