tyres built for speeeeed

[bobbyOCR]

Now, I have accepted that conti's attack/force and GP 4 seasons have very **** RR, which isn't great, cause they are extremely uncomfortable.

Now, I want to find a very quick set of tyres (to be run with latex tubes) and have heard a few suggestions including Veloflex Corsa, Vittoria Open Corsa Evo-CX, the bloody ubiquitous Pro2Race and conti GP 4000.

These are to be used purely in races, and I have no experience with how puncture-resistant any of these are (My current tyres, GP 4 seasons, seem to be immune to punctures. I still have 2 spare and I have clocked nearly 16000km on my current set) and would love to hear of any experiences.

 

[sogood]

Bobby, have you checked out Conti GP4000S?

http://www.conti-online.com/generat...cle/themes/tires/race/gp4000s/gp4000s_en.html

PBK already has it listed, just no stock yet.

 

[kleng]

Bobby, have you checked out Conti GP4000S?

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/tires/race/gp4000s/gp4000s_en.html

PBK already has it listed, just no stock yet.

or

Michelin Pro 2 Race "Special Edition" these are not the ordinary version
http://www.highonbikes.com/product.asp?P_ID=547&strPageHistory=search&strKeywords=michelin&numPageStartPosition=1&strSearchCriteria=any&PT_ID=all
according to michelin 30% more grip with a significantly lower rolling resistance.
I've done about 3000k without any puctures, so far

or

Zipp Tangente
http://www.zipp.com/OnlineStore/Tires/tabid/55/CategoryID/1/List/1/Level/1/ProductID/117/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName%2cProductName

I've tried both of these tires with Vittoria latex tubes (these are lighter than the Michelin latex), the Zipp are probably the fastest, but the Michelin
are much more comfortable so I prefer them.

 

[bobbyOCR]

Thanks for the suggestion of the GP4000 S, they look extremely similar to Schwalbe's Ultremo. I know about the Pro2Race SE, but they don't appeal that much. I hate the blue, and my bike currently has a black/yellow/green/phonak-y colour scheme developing. The Zipp tyres are just very expensive vittorias.

 

[TadThomas]

I'm a big fan of the Tufo CS3 Clincher-Tublulars. They'll take up to about 220 psi although I usually run them around 175. They're light too...I think in the neighborhood of 235 g. They don't require tubes or rim tape. I was first turned onto them about 18 months ago and can't stand to use any other tire at this point. Just my two cents worth.

 

[branded]

Thanks for the suggestion of the GP4000 S, they look extremely similar to Schwalbe's Ultremo. I know about the Pro2Race SE, but they don't appeal that much. I hate the blue, and my bike currently has a black/yellow/green/phonak-y colour scheme developing. The Zipp tyres are just very expensive vittorias.

The bunch I train with ride mostly either Conti Ultra Gator Skins (most popular) or Mich Pro2Race (some now on Conti GP4000). Reason is that over many years these have proven to be the most reliable/most puncture resistant riding a mixture of city & country roads, while still giving good performance.

I use Pro2Race and (roughly) puncture about every 3-4,000km - the Pro2Race are much more puncture resistant than the old ProRace tyres in my experience. To be fair the Ultra Gator Skins seem to be even better, my mates rarely puncture with these.

Given you are after a race tyre, my experience is the Pro2Race is a much better performer than either the Gator Skins or GP4000. Rolling resistance is noticeably less (obvious rolling downhill on bunch rides), and handling/grip also seem much better (usually much quicker on the twisty bits).

A comment about handling - I used to think that max tyre pressure must be best, so always stuffed about 120psi into both tyres. But recently actually read the inflation pressure v weight graph on the Michelin tyre packaging. So measured my on-bike weight distribution (was about 45%/55% front/back) and reading off the graph have been using 105/115psi front/back. What a difference!
Much more comfortable ride, but most noticeably the front wheel is far more sure-footed cornering. The lower pressure allows it to much better follow the road contours. At 40kmh + it now feels stuck to the road, before it would often feel chattery/loose.
Haven't noticed a great difference in rolling resistance either, but not sure I can feel this anyway. Still rolling better than my mates on Gator Skins.

Lastly, this is some info on RR and puncture resistance, see graphs at the bottom of the page -
http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html

The RR figures are at 30kmh, the Pro2Race are using 15W less than the Conti GPs etc. Big difference if these are correct. Matches my experience outlined above, can't comment on the Vittorias etc.
Note the puncture resistance column, again suggests the Pro2Race is the best of the lower RR tyres.

 

[Jono L]

I've heard very good thigns abut Scwalbe Ultremo's, they certainly look fast.

 

[alienator]

Thanks for the suggestion of the GP4000 S, they look extremely similar to Schwalbe's Ultremo. I know about the Pro2Race SE, but they don't appeal that much. I hate the blue, and my bike currently has a black/yellow/green/phonak-y colour scheme developing. The Zipp tyres are just very expensive vittorias.

Similar, except the vectran belt in the Ultremos is much more dense than the GP4000. Frankly, I wasn't impressed at all with the GP4000 and its puncture resistance. The Ultremo feels fast, but I can't quantify it's rolling resistance. It does corner well, even in the wet. Very confident feeling tire.

 

[BikingBrian]

A comment about handling - I used to think that max tyre pressure must be best, so always stuffed about 120psi into both tyres. But recently actually read the inflation pressure v weight graph on the Michelin tyre packaging. So measured my on-bike weight distribution (was about 45%/55% front/back) and reading off the graph have been using 105/115psi front/back. What a difference!
Much more comfortable ride, but most noticeably the front wheel is far more sure-footed cornering. The lower pressure allows it to much better follow the road contours. At 40kmh + it now feels stuck to the road, before it would often feel chattery/loose.
Haven't noticed a great difference in rolling resistance either, but not sure I can feel this anyway. Still rolling better than my mates on Gator Skins.

Lastly, this is some info on RR and puncture resistance, see graphs at the bottom of the page -
http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html

The RR figures are at 30kmh, the Pro2Race are using 15W less than the Conti GPs etc. Big difference if these are correct. Matches my experience outlined above, can't comment on the Vittorias etc.
Note the puncture resistance column, again suggests the Pro2Race is the best of the lower RR tyres.

+1Yes! It's sad how few people never get this simple fact: tyres need to be run at the correct pressure for the best performance. Too low means susceptibility to pinch flats; too high and rr becomes much greater with a concurrent drop in comfort.
As for rr, Michelin and Vittoria tyres tend to test out near the top in most tests. (see German "Tour" magazine tyre tests). I can also confirm by my own experience, Vittoria (spef the Corsa Open CX) are very soft tyres, excellent grip, but wear quite fast.
Finally, this season I put on a pair of Michelin Pro Grips....also excellent (perhaps not as much as the Vittorias), though they do wear a bit fast if you use them for training. I do, but that is because I value my skin when doing fast downhill corners and sprints!

 

[mikesbytes]

Bobby, there isn't a lot of difference between the tyres you have put on your shopping list, each seems to have its pros and cons.

Your lighter weight than an Adult means that you are going to get a little better wear rate, so probably not as much a consideration.

A question for someone else about the GP4000's, I hear that the sidewalls go before the tread sometiime. If Bobby is just going to use if for racing, then is he going to get a shorter life out of 4000's over the other brands due to sidewall limitations? or is this sidewall issue simply distance based?

One thing to consider is U17 gearing rules, the 22mm tyres give you slightly less gearing than the 23mm tyres, which could be a minor disadvantage, or could be used to your advantage by using the 22mm tyres in combination with a different cluster/chaing ring combination. I read this on one of the club sites, I think it was one of the Sydney sites. If I remember, I'll post you a link.

 

[sogood]

A question for someone else about the GP4000's, I hear that the sidewalls go before the tread sometiime. If Bobby is just going to use if for racing, then is he going to get a shorter life out of 4000's over the other brands due to sidewall limitations? or is this sidewall issue simply distance based?

Well, the side wall issue isn't related to normal wear on hard cornering. You would have long met the tarmac before you corner off the side wall. Those side wall issues relates to scraping with the gutter or similar situations. Yes, I have a bulge on one of my GP4000 (rear tyre) and I know exactly what caused it. Keeping an eye on it but it seemed to be pretty stable at the moment.

As for the wear rate. I note that the midline thickness of the tyre is significantly greater on the GP4000 than the Corsa Open Cx. So it's no surprise in my mind that Corsa Cx's mileage is that much less. The other issue with Corsa Open Cx is that it has a fine diamond patterned tread. I wonder what would the effect on the grip be once that has worn through. Whereas on the GP4000, it's essentially a solid tread with no practical pattern. So as long as the rubber is there, the grip shouldn't vary that much, right?

 

[mikesbytes]

Well, the side wall issue isn't related to normal wear on hard cornering. You would have long met the tarmac before you corner off the side wall. Those side wall issues relates to scraping with the gutter or similar situations. Yes, I have a bulge on one of my GP4000 (rear tyre) and I know exactly what caused it. Keeping an eye on it but it seemed to be pretty stable at the moment.

As for the wear rate. I note that the midline thickness of the tyre is significantly greater on the GP4000 than the Corsa Open Cx. So it's no surprise in my mind that Corsa Cx's mileage is that much less. The other issue with Corsa Open Cx is that it has a fine diamond patterned tread. I wonder what would the effect on the grip be once that has worn through. Whereas on the GP4000, it's essentially a solid tread with no practical pattern. So as long as the rubber is there, the grip shouldn't vary that much, right?

I wasn't thinking so much about wear due to corning or the like, I was thinking that the sidewalls go off. Next time I see you I'll have a close look at your bubble, it may need some reinforcement.

Generally thinner rubber = lower rolling resistance, which is probably why the Corsa Open Cx is thinner.

Wouldn't worry about the diamond pattern wearing off, that will simply give you more rubber and more rubber = better grip, which is a + for pro race 2, as it has no groves of any sort and therefor has the maximum rubber on the road.

 

[sogood]

Sure, I'll show you the bulge when we catch up. It's pretty minor and shouldn't need any reinforcement... Famous last word.

 

[mikesbytes]

Sure, I'll show you the bulge when we catch up. It's pretty minor and shouldn't need any reinforcement... Famous last word.

BTW, you'll be pleased to know that I didn't puncture this morning.

 

[bobbyOCR]

OK there seems to be some confusion in the posts. I'm not interested in GP 4000, I am interested in the GP 4000S. There is a big difference.

@ the tyre pressure post by branded

Thanks, but I know. I run 90/95 psi in my GP 4 seasons for comfort and I find that it is also faster. I rarely go above 110 in any tyres.

thanks for the info about the Schwalbe Ultremo. If I hear that they also wear well they will start to become top candidate.

What of the Veloflex though? I know the Vittorias have the lowest rolling resistance, followed by the Michelins, that I know of, but veloflex tyres weren't tested so I don't know what they are like.

Just to get it straight again GP 4000 S, not GP 4000. They are a brand new tyre which is lighter, faster, grippier with more wear (so their marketing department states) than the GP 4000, and they only come in black.

 

[mikesbytes]

GP4000S sounds interesting, post a like Bobby.

 

[alienator]

thanks for the info about the Schwalbe Ultremo. If I hear that they also wear well they will start to become top candidate.

I've got a little over 1000 miles on mine, and they're showing zero cuts. No flats, and as I said before they roll real nice. So far, they be lookin' like at least 3000 mile tires. Factor into your reading that I'm 170lbs.

 

[sogood]

BTW, you'll be pleased to know that I didn't puncture this morning.

And you'll be interested to know that I had a flat at home. As I was wiping the tyre down after the ride, I saw an embedded glass chip. I tried to flick it out without letting the pressure down and guess what, the tyre went flat on me. My little dig appeared to cause that bit of extra penetration.

 

[supergrill]

I've got a little over 1000 miles on mine, and they're showing zero cuts. No flats, and as I said before they roll real nice. So far, they be lookin' like at least 3000 mile tires. Factor into your reading that I'm 170lbs.

A - Is your experience with the Ultremo with the clincher or tub version?

 

[bobbyOCR]

I've got a little over 1000 miles on mine, and they're showing zero cuts. No flats, and as I said before they roll real nice. So far, they be lookin' like at least 3000 mile tires. Factor into your reading that I'm 170lbs.

Thanks. It seems like the veloflex are 1000mile tyres at best. From what I hear Vittoria Evos are prone to punctures and the general feeling about the ultremos is that they are excellent tyres.