U.K. is a "banana republic"!

[Carrera]

Hmmm, recent events have only confirmed my theories. I refer to the extradition of bankers David Bermingham, Gary Mulgrew and Giles Darby to the U.S.A. to face trial over alleged fraud.
Could you imagine a case whereby the U.S. only has to whistle and a French or German citizen loses the right to be tried in his or her own country and winds up being extradited to America? Whether these folks happen to be guilty or not is besides the point. The fact is, it appears to be the case that Britons can be extradited to the U.S. to be tried in a possible kangaroo court, while for an American to be extradited is unthinkable.
It's the same situation with regard to democratic procedure. Have you noticed how many policies (welfare to work) introduced by whatever puppet government we wind up with over here orignate from the U.S.A. or is advised by the U.S.A.? I mean, you only have to see images of John Prescot at some U.S. conference taking a look at "how things are done over there".
I've got nothing against an alliance with the U.S.A. as such but what I object to is this loss of sovereignty. The fact is, issues such as going to war, democratic process, legal issues and defence are simply being decided in the U.S.A. To my mind, that's a banana republic. I think only Ireland seems to have escaped this situation by joining the E.U.

 

[John Knees]

As I understand it we have ratified the extradition treaty, the Yanks have not. Simple solution, instead of going cap-in-hand to the Yanks, go back on our word (plenty of precedents for this under Improved New Labour) and de-ratify.

Failing that, use the magic mushroom - European Human Rights law.

An apalling aspect of this is the legislation which is being used. Anti-terrorism law was developed for dealing with terrorists, and is being used here in an utterly corrupt manner, much as it was against Mr. Hoffman at Brighton.

Apply another test - if this were Euan Blair and a couple of his mates - what then? Silly me - of course they'd be extradited.

Nice to know our local hospital is under threat of closure/downgrading, when a certain Mr. Hamza is likely to have £ 10,000 worth of "essential surgery".

Sorry, going for weep.

 

[Carrera]

Too many people are unaware of what's going on. With Europe Blair has simply agreed to throw open the labour market and let everyone use the NHS or work over here. With America, Bush simply has to whistle and Blair sells human rights down the river or wages war on another country in the Middle East.
Blair is terrific at doing what other countries want him to do but useless at representing the interests of the people who voted him in.
Even more crazy is the idea of scrapping E.U. human rights law - which Blair or Cameron shouldn't be allowed to do. It seems pretty obvious to me Blair ran a campaign to try and turn people against human rights. He did this by over-emphasising the rights of criminals or hijackers so he could then sell the public his anti-European human rights agenda. People swallowed it too. Amazing they now want rid of human rights legislation.
Yet other countries who signed the human rights bill do manage to deport criminal elements or kick out hijackers. I don't buy this nonsense that Blair can't deport hijackers e.t.c. because of Europe.
The thing is we need human rights and those rights exist for our protection and that's why Europe has them. They protect our right to a trial, free speech, labour rights and other essential freedoms.
I think Blair is a con man and I think the way those businessmen have been sold out is disgraceful. They could have been accused of any fictitious crime. I mean, who's next George Galloway?

As I understand it we have ratified the extradition treaty, the Yanks have not. Simple solution, instead of going cap-in-hand to the Yanks, go back on our word (plenty of precedents for this under Improved New Labour) and de-ratify.

Failing that, use the magic mushroom - European Human Rights law.

An apalling aspect of this is the legislation which is being used. Anti-terrorism law was developed for dealing with terrorists, and is being used here in an utterly corrupt manner, much as it was against Mr. Hoffman at Brighton.

Apply another test - if this were Euan Blair and a couple of his mates - what then? Silly me - of course they'd be extradited.

Nice to know our local hospital is under threat of closure/downgrading, when a certain Mr. Hamza is likely to have £ 10,000 worth of "essential surgery".

Sorry, going for weep.

 

[darkboong]

Too many people are unaware of what's going on. With Europe Blair has simply agreed to throw open the labour market and let everyone use the NHS or work over here.

That cuts both ways as far as EU citizens goes, despite what you and the Daily Mail says. For example some people pop over to France for treatment because they reckon they get better treatment than they do in the NHS .

With America, Bush simply has to whistle and Blair sells human rights down the river or wages war on another country in the Middle East.

It is no secret that the UK Government has largely been a pawn of the US since WWII. There are plenty of precedents as far as Military procurement
goes, TSR.2 / F111 / MRCA / Polaris / Trident / JSF (which the US GAO has
slated for being over priced, under performing and unwarranted). There have
been a few disagreements over foreign policy but largely the UK has gone
along with the US's wishes.

I suspect that the majority of the Euroskeptic noise is raised in order to show loyalty to our US keepers. The recent legislation changes have largely followed the US. I can't see the point in voting for a Euroskeptic, they represent the interests of the US Administration better than they represent the interests of any European citizen. There is a double play going on of course, and that is the European Commission occasionally breaks it's own rules to satisfy a whim of Emperor George too. The WTO wrangles are instructive.

Blair is terrific at doing what other countries want him to do but useless at representing the interests of the people who voted him in.

All Blair cares about is always getting "his" way, money, taking the **** with the perks and setting up his retirement fund and making friends in high places. Pretty much the same as any politician that has been at the helm for too long.

Even more crazy is the idea of scrapping E.U. human rights law - which Blair or Cameron shouldn't be allowed to do. It seems pretty obvious to me Blair ran a campaign to try and turn people against human rights.

The Daily Mail, Sun, Mirror and Evening Standard have helped him a great deal in that case... I'm with you, EU Human Rights Law is there to protect the little man, and it is clearly hindering the big men because suddenly they want it axed for their convenience - against the advice and better judgement of the Legal profession.

I don't buy this nonsense that Blair can't deport hijackers e.t.c. because of Europe.

Me either. Europe has been an over-used scapegoat for governments and ministers for as long as I can remember. The tabloids have largely supported the politicians in this, which is sad because it means that the press has effectively rendered itself irrelevant.

The thing is we need human rights and those rights exist for our protection and that's why Europe has them. They protect our right to a trial, free speech, labour rights and other essential freedoms.

Hear hear !

I think Blair is a con man and I think the way those businessmen have been sold out is disgraceful.

Quite frankly the majority of businessmen are con-men. White-collar crime is endemic. I was more concerned by the Gary McKinnon case. The man didn't even "hack" the systems, those systems were not even secured by passwords... There was another case of a man who typed in a URL just out of curiosity to check the security of a website (something that could easily happen quite legitimately as it happens). He made a donation to the site and left a note saying what he had found. He is currently serving time for hacking the system - despite the fact that he did not cause any damage, seek out any unauthorised information on the system, or indeed do anything other than try a valid URL on the webserver - that *SHOULD* have been blocked by the System Administrator. If anything the Sys Admin should be behind bars for criminal negligence. So much for TB's UK justice.

Top tip for you : if you find a security flaw online, keep stumm and deny everything. If you notify the operator or authorities you are very likely to end up with a conviction.

They could have been accused of any fictitious crime. I mean, who's next George Galloway?

I think that George flew to the US before he was cuffed last time around. After his Big Brother escapades I'm wondering if we should change the rules of BB. Vote to keep the buggers in, not to kick them out, most of the occupants appear to be better kept off the streets.