UCI Lawyer says Armstrong should be cleared of EPO accusation!!
- Thread starter bobke
- Start date
JRMDC said:
Yes, if the identity of the sample was in dispute, the existing sample can be tested through DNA.
In fact, Amrstrong when confronted with the six separate positive results never questioned that the samples tested were not rendered by him.
But if there was an issue about the identity of the donor - a DNA test carried out on LA and cross referenced to the sample, could easily be done.
And it wouldn't contaminate the sample for other tests such as synthetic EPO test.
JRMDC said:
the samples are urine samples - not blood samples which were tested.
Six separate samples from different TDF stages were found to contain synthetic EPO.
JRMDC said:
It is a mess - I agree with you.
rejobako said:
The scientists at Chatenay-Malabry themselves have stated that sythetic EPO cannot be added to urine.
I do know that there were extensive scientific statements from other independent scientists to this effect who were not connected to C-M.
UCI is livid that this news has been leaked as they are still waiting for definitive version of report from the lawyer Mr Vrijman
http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=4195
http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=4195
wolfix said:
Yep, I recall reading a very long treatise on this issue when the story broke initially.
The reason why EPO cannot be added retrospectively is because the sample
and it's constituent parts would react to the addition, thereby rendering the sample untestable, as far as I recall.
It also stated that synthetic EPO cannot materialise of it's own volition in a sample : EPO can only be present in the sample if it was ingested by the donor giving the sample.
I will try to dig out the treatise
This whole issue points out more then just a drug related problem. It shows how Armstrong has been attacked in ways that other cyclists have not.
He gets attacked for just riding one race a year when other TDF contenders do the same thing.
He gets attacked for speaking his innocence in drug using when he was constantly the subject of media attacks and rumours.
He gets attacked for puting together a team [DC] that has done nothing but put on a clinic at the TDF. Indurain/Hinault/Merxkx should have been so lucky.
He gets attacked for discrediting cycling when the sport has done that to itsellf over the years.
He gets attacked as a doper when allegations are made. And yet we worship the ground of Merckx.... He was a fraud. Armstrong is attacked when other recent TDF winners have been convicted..... Delgado, Fignon, and Merckx.
The reason he has gotten attacked is because he is an American. There may be some resentment with some of the American ideals he brought with him, but the riders can thank Lemond and his American ideals for the bigger money they are making.
He gets attacked for just riding one race a year when other TDF contenders do the same thing.
He gets attacked for speaking his innocence in drug using when he was constantly the subject of media attacks and rumours.
He gets attacked for puting together a team [DC] that has done nothing but put on a clinic at the TDF. Indurain/Hinault/Merxkx should have been so lucky.
He gets attacked for discrediting cycling when the sport has done that to itsellf over the years.
He gets attacked as a doper when allegations are made. And yet we worship the ground of Merckx.... He was a fraud. Armstrong is attacked when other recent TDF winners have been convicted..... Delgado, Fignon, and Merckx.
The reason he has gotten attacked is because he is an American. There may be some resentment with some of the American ideals he brought with him, but the riders can thank Lemond and his American ideals for the bigger money they are making.
limerickman said:
Thanks, Lim. Since asking the question, I reviewed some of the literature as well, and it's interesting, at least until my eyes glazed over. I found some information to verify what you stated. I also saw several times an indication that would make the chain of custody important again -- apparently naturally occurring enzymes in the body can register in the synthetic EPO band, and that the patterns to distinguish the two can be distorted if the samples are not properly stored. If Vrijman established gaps in the chain of custody, this is much more than a circumstantial "aquittal".
In any case, I look forward to reviewing Vrijman's original report when it might become available on-line somewhere. If anyone gets wind of it, please let me know.
wolfix said:
...........his problems started when he wrote his book and made claims which were, frankly, implausible.
If he had kept his mouth shut - no one would have confronted him.
His problems have nothing to do with his nationality.
American riders - and especially successful American riders - were always widely respected here in Europe.
I can tell you that Andy Hampsten was widely respected.
Greg leMond who kicked every European cyclist around for the best part of a decade is thoroughly respected.
Greg won single, stage and grand tour races by the bucketful.
I hated leMond cycling because he beat my idol Sean Kelly at Chamberey in 1989 but I never accused LeMond of cheating. LeMond was clean - and he was known to have been clean.
That's why many European fans accept leMond and his achievements.
But writing the book saying he was clean did not bring the press out against him. The press was the ones who brought the subject up constantly. Then he wrote the book. Of course he would address this subject in the book. His doping was the main thing the press wrote about him.
When this was happening I questioned the mainly French press. How they could attack an individual who was winning their race and yet they glorified RV..... The also attacked Fignon who did not deserve attacks. And now history shows he was the last of the French hope in modern cycling in th epast 20 years.
When this was happening I questioned the mainly French press. How they could attack an individual who was winning their race and yet they glorified RV..... The also attacked Fignon who did not deserve attacks. And now history shows he was the last of the French hope in modern cycling in th epast 20 years.
rejobako said:
Yeah the treatise I read was appended to the EPO test, it's roll out and the consultative process.
Basically a WADA accredited lab developed the EPO test following it's own extensive clinical and scientific trials.
WADA was approached by the lab in question - who offered the test to WADA in it's (WADA's) war against doping.
WADA allowed an 18 -24 month period in which any sporting federation could consult the clinical test trial results and could then conduct their own research and challenge the validity of the test trial results and to challenge the chain of custody methodology employed by WADA.
WADA incorporated all of the concerns raised through this consultative phase and even refined the test some more in order to ensure the accuracy of the results and ensure the integrity of the chain of custody.
The final clinical trials of the EPO tests took place in 2004 - in order to be validated/verified in time for the Athens Olympics.
When the final clinical trials were completed and the the chain of custody and the results process were verified, only then did WADA announce the imposition of this test upon samples retained by constituent sporting federations in July 2004.
This required all sporting organisations who intended to participate in Athens to adopt the WADA protocols.
wolfix said:
This poster certainly never glorified Virenque.
Virenque was a cheat.
Agreed about Fignon.
I think that the image that will always be with me of Fignon is when he is laying on the ground on the last stage of the TDF. He was desperately trying to hold on to his narrow lead against Lemond in that final stage which was a short TT. As the splits were given to him along the route he could feel his victory slipping out of his hands and he was giving everything he had. The two things that struck me were the speed of Lemond's TT and the broken Fignon laying on the ground. I wonder if the French and the French media refused to forgive Fignon for his failure - and to an American no less.wolfix said:
In those days the French were used to having a lot of winners. These days they cannot afford to spurn anyone - even a doper. They had to embrace Viranque because he was all they had. Now they have to enbrace any top ten performer, like Cesar, because it is all they have. But your comment about their hypocricy regarding doping is well taken.
saluki said:
..........all the French had was Virenque.
Profound.
I think that Jalabert would dispute that.
It's not a mess. An independent investigator wrote a 135 page report exonerating Lance completely and probably leading to indictments if not censure of the French lab, **** Pound and others.limerickman said:
Here is Lance's statement:
A statement from Lance Armstrong:
"Today the independent investigator appointed by the UCI announced the results of his work in a 130-page report. I want to thank him and his staff for all their hard work and diligence in this process. I have not had an opportunity to study the report yet, but I wanted to let you know my preliminary reactions to the report.
Although I am not surprised by the report’s findings, I am pleased that they confirm what I have been saying since this witch-hunt began: **** Pound, WADA, the French laboratory, the French Ministry of Sport, L’Equipe, and the Tour de France organizers (ASO) have been out to discredit and target me without any basis and falsely accused me of taking performance enhancing drugs in 1999. Today’s comprehensive report makes it clear that there is no truth to that accusation.
The report confirms my innocence, but also finds that Mr. Pound along with the French lab and the French ministry have ignored the rules and broken the law. They have also refused to cooperate with the investigation in an effort to conceal the full scope of their wrongdoing. I have now retired, but for the sake of all athletes still competing who deserve a level playing field and a fair system of drug testing, the time has come to take action against these kinds of attacks before they destroy the credibility of WADA and, in turn, the international anti-doping system.”
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