Uh-oh - shield your eyes, children (helmet content).

[SMS]

[email protected] wrote:

> One of these people yelled so that all could hear "Look they're not
> wearing helmets!" I would like to have interviewed the rider whom we
> heard for his estimate of the situation. I think it would have boiled
> down to "anyone who descends faster than I is crazy while slower ones
> are slugs, and helmets make all this safe.

They must be newbies. I've been up on the west side of La Honda road,
and when we saw someone descending at a high rate of speed with no
helmet, someone simply said "look, it's Jobst."

For many years I led rides for WW, and many of the leaders, including
myself, fought the evil helmet forces, threatening to stop leading rides
if they made helmets mandatory. We prevailed for several years.
Eventually it was a choice between shutting down the club because
liability insurance would be impossible to obtain without requiring
helmets, unless the dues went up so much that no one would join anyway.

As I've gotten older, I have less patience for all the **** involved
with these clubs, and the problems they cause in places like Woodside
and Portola Valley.

 

[_]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:

>>
>> Let's get to the nub.
>>
>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?

> Yes, let's. If you were here in person, you wouldn't dare speak to me
> in the terms you have.

You don't know me. Yes I would.

>
> So I'm going to say to you yet again - mind your own business.
>

Why won't you answer the question? If you were to do so, we could all draw
our own conclusions about your parenting skills.

 

[Tim McTeague]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sandy Leurre writes:
>
>>>> Where's L. Ron Hubbard when we need him?
>
>>> Dead.
>
>> Still dead!?
>
> Yes, but to make up for that we have Tom Cruise. How's your e-meter?
>
> Jobst Brandt

Read the news. A new book on Cruise says that his daughter is the product
of frozen sperm from L. Ron Hubbard. Also, Will Smith just finished a new
movie and gave the obligatory wrap gifts to the crew. He gave coupons for
free personality evaluation from Scientology. Gotta get rid of the alien
Thetans somehow.

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/01/07/2008-01-07_tellall_has_tom_cruise_in_overdrive.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/01/09/2008-01-09_will_smith_boosting_scientology.html

Tim McTeague

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jan 10, 3:00 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > One of these people yelled so that all could hear "Look they're not
> > wearing helmets!"  I would like to have interviewed the rider whom we
> > heard for his estimate of the situation.  I think it would have boiled
> > down to "anyone who descends faster than I is crazy while slower ones
> > are slugs, and helmets make all this safe.
>
> They must be newbies. I've been up on the west side of La Honda road,
> and when we saw someone descending at a high rate of speed with no
> helmet, someone simply said "look, it's Jobst."


Did you feel a blast of hot air as he came into view?


<snipped>

 

[SMS]

Jay Beattie wrote:
> On Jan 9, 3:44 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Jan 9, 5:31 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> The helmet zealots who shout across a busy downtown intersection at a
>>>> passing rider "Where's your helmet!" gives a bit of background to
>>>> these MHL folk. You don't see or hear someone shouting across
>>>> intersections "Smoking kills!" when a person smoking a cigarette walks
>>>> down the avenue,
>>> Where have you ever seen someone shouting that?
>> Austin, Texas.
>>
>>> It sounds like maybe a
>>> brainwashed school child would say something like that, but not an adult.
>> Childish, brainwashed adult.
>>
>> Fear sells.
>
> I yell "lower your cholesterol!"

Sometimes I use "Your mother rides aluminum."

 

[Wayne Pein]

Wayne wrote:

> Original poster mentioned Austin, Texas
>
> I would like everyone to know that while it may be against the law to
> ride a bicycle without a helmet in many parts of Texas one can ride a
> motorcycle without one legally. This has nothing to do with safety
> and everything to do with the political process.
>
> This was emphasized to me years ago when I saw presidential candidate
> John Kerry staging a photo-op riding a bike (with a helmet) and later
> another riding a Harley (without one).
>
> Wayne
>

Maybe he really needs one on a bicycle, and body armor too!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/
nation/president/2004-05-02-kerry-bike_x.htm

vs.

http://www.captionmachine.com/archives/2004/10/20/is-that-ponch/

Wayne Pein

 

[_]

On 10 Jan 2008 03:27:58 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

> Jay Taylor writes:
>
>>>>>>> Well, no...
>
>>>>>> Exactly.  So have a big, steaming mug of STFU until you do.
>
>>>>> Goodness.
>
>>>> Either you are confused, or you are not a logical person.
>
>>> Neither.
>
>> Let's get to the nub.
>
>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/dm4pp
>
> On a ride with my son. Is that good enough?
>
> Jobst Brandt

Who's taller?

 

[A Muzi]

>>>>>>>> Well, no...
>>>>>>> Exactly. So have a big, steaming mug of STFU until you do.
>>>>>> Goodness.
>>>>> Either you are confused, or you are not a logical person.
>>>> Neither.

>> Jay Taylor writes:
>>> Let's get to the nub.
>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?

> [email protected] wrote:
>> http://tinyurl.com/dm4pp
>> On a ride with my son. Is that good enough?

_ wrote:
> Who's taller?

Chalo.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Jay Beattie]

On Jan 10, 3:59 pm, _ <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:26:44 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Jan 10, 1:43 am, _ <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>
> >>>> Let's get to the nub.
>
> >>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
> >>> Yes, let's.  If you were here in person, you wouldn't dare speak to me
> >>> in the terms you have.
>
> >> You don't know me.  Yes I would.
>
> > Actually, you wouldn't.  But you may feel free to contact me off-group
> > so that we can meet up.  I'd love to see you swallow some of your big
> > talk.
>
> There's no big talk here.  All I was doing was applauding your recognition
> of risk compensation, and drawing the obvious conclusion.  You somehow seem
> to find that a reflection on your parenting skills.  Now if you had not
> also drawn this conclusion, then perhaps they could be improved.
>
> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet?  

I do. It's the law in Oregon. When my son hits 16, he can make his
own decision.

I have caught my 12 year old son without a helmet, and as far as I can
tell, he rides about the same and doesn't risk compensate. I don't
bust his chops too much, and I emphasize the legal requirement to wear
a helmet rather than how dangerous cycling is. I do bust him hard for
not following traffic laws or not paying attention to cars -- which is
far more important than wearing a helment because no helmet is going
to save you from being squashed by an SUV.

Now, with skiing, he definitely risk compensates. He likes to ski
through the trees on the steep elf trails, and I know he would not do
that without his helmet because he has told me so. But I am not going
to tell him to dump his helmet and stay out of the woods, because I
don't want to be the nervous parent and because he is at risk for
focal head injury with all the crazed snowboarders hucking out of
everywhere all the time. I do worry a little about rotational injury
since ski helmets have far more mass than bicycle helmets, and head
snap back is common in ski falls, particularly off jumps. I would
like to see the epidemiology on that before getting worried, though.
-- Jay Beattie.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Andrew Muzi wrote:
> [snip]
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/dm4pp
>>> On a ride with my son. Is that good enough?
>
> _ wrote:
>> Who's taller?
>
> Chalo.

No, Peter Cole.

Check out the head tube length:
<http://sheldonbrown.com/bike-screensaver1024x768/images/petercoleDSCN4970.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

 

[Ed Pirrero]

On Jan 10, 3:59 pm, _ <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:26:44 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Jan 10, 1:43 am, _ <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>
> >>>> Let's get to the nub.
>
> >>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
> >>> Yes, let's. If you were here in person, you wouldn't dare speak to me
> >>> in the terms you have.
>
> >> You don't know me. Yes I would.
>
> > Actually, you wouldn't. But you may feel free to contact me off-group
> > so that we can meet up. I'd love to see you swallow some of your big
> > talk.
>
> There's no big talk here.

Except for your original quip. Which you wouldn't have the guts to
say to me in person.

I notice you haven't e-mailed me.

Big internet talk has zero value. It's easy to hide behind your
monitor and make snide commentary, so I'll treat your "concern" with
all the consideration it deserves.

E.P.

 

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> Andrew Muzi wrote:
> >
> >> jtaylor wrote:
> >>
> >> Who's taller?
> >
> > Chalo.
>
> No, Peter Cole.
>
> Check out the head tube length:
> <http://sheldonbrown.com/bike-screensaver1024x768/images/petercoleDSCN...>.

Peter is a good couple of inches taller than me, and around 100 pounds
lighter. Some of my bikes have that size frame (27"/68cm), but I
don't hang out quite that much seatpost.

On the other hand, I use way more spokes.

Chalo

 

[_]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:26:07 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:

> On Jan 10, 3:59 pm, _ <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:26:44 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>> On Jan 10, 1:43 am, _ <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Let's get to the nub.
>>
>>>>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
>>>>> Yes, let's. If you were here in person, you wouldn't dare speak to me
>>>>> in the terms you have.
>>
>>>> You don't know me. Yes I would.
>>
>>> Actually, you wouldn't. But you may feel free to contact me off-group
>>> so that we can meet up. I'd love to see you swallow some of your big
>>> talk.
>>
>> There's no big talk here.
>
> Except for your original quip.

The first "quip" I made was the observation that a concerned parent, which
I assumed you were, would draw the obvious conclusion. You seem to have
reacted in a way that begs the question you are avoiding:

Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet while cycling.

> Which you wouldn't have the guts to
> say to me in person.

"Guts" are not the issue here - what is being asked is:

Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet while cycling.

>
> I notice you haven't e-mailed me.
>

My choice. I have no problem with others listening.

 

[Ed Pirrero]

On Jan 11, 4:28 am, _ <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:26:07 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Jan 10, 3:59 pm, _ <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:26:44 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >>> On Jan 10, 1:43 am, _ <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Let's get to the nub.
>
> >>>>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
> >>>>> Yes, let's.  If you were here in person, you wouldn't dare speak to me
> >>>>> in the terms you have.
>
> >>>> You don't know me.  Yes I would.
>
> >>> Actually, you wouldn't.  But you may feel free to contact me off-group
> >>> so that we can meet up.  I'd love to see you swallow some of your big
> >>> talk.
>
> >> There's no big talk here.
>
> > Except for your original quip.  
>
> The first "quip" I made was the observation that a concerned parent...

You didn't use the word "that".

Your re-spin is pathetic and laughable.

> > Which you wouldn't have the guts to
> > say to me in person.
>
> "Guts" are not the issue here ...

Of course they are. You dare say something via computer, safe at home
that you would never dare say to my face.

You are a coward.

> > I notice you haven't e-mailed me.
>
> My choice.  

Of course it's your choice. You chose to be an asshole where you
thought you ccould get away with it. That's OK, headers tell a story,
and I can do a little digging later on tonight. You really should
have shut up while you were behind.


E.P.

 

[SMS]

[email protected] wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/dm4pp
>
> On a ride with my son. Is that good enough?

OMG. Steel, non-compact frames with downtube shifters, and quill stems.
What would the bozos at Trek and Specialized think?

2270M and no triple crankset either. Impressive.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jan 11, 11:12 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >http://tinyurl.com/dm4pp
>
> > On a ride with my son.  Is that good enough?
>
> OMG. Steel, non-compact frames with downtube shifters, and quill stems.

You do know that Brandt favors threadless headsets and has had a new,
threadless fork made for his bike, right?


> What would the bozos at Trek and Specialized think?
>
> 2270M and no triple crankset either. Impressive.

 

[_]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:43:10 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:

> On Jan 11, 4:28 am, _ <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:26:07 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>> On Jan 10, 3:59 pm, _ <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:26:44 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 10, 1:43 am, _ <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> Let's get to the nub.
>>
>>>>>>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
>>>>>>> Yes, let's.  If you were here in person, you wouldn't dare speak to me
>>>>>>> in the terms you have.
>>
>>>>>> You don't know me.  Yes I would.
>>
>>>>> Actually, you wouldn't.  But you may feel free to contact me off-group
>>>>> so that we can meet up.  I'd love to see you swallow some of your big
>>>>> talk.
>>
>>>> There's no big talk here.
>>
>>> Except for your original quip.  
>>
>> The first "quip" I made was the observation that a concerned parent...
>
> You didn't use the word "that".
>
> Your re-spin is pathetic and laughable.
>
>>> Which you wouldn't have the guts to
>>> say to me in person.
>>
>> "Guts" are not the issue here ...
>
> Of course they are. You dare say something via computer, safe at home
> that you would never dare say to my face.
>

Just exactly what do you think I said that has made you so upset?

 

[Ed Pirrero]

On Jan 11, 10:19 am, _ <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:43:10 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Jan 11, 4:28 am, _ <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:26:07 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >>> On Jan 10, 3:59 pm, _ <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:26:44 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >>>>> On Jan 10, 1:43 am, _ <[email protected]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> Let's get to the nub.
>
> >>>>>>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
> >>>>>>> Yes, let's.  If you were here in person, you wouldn't dare speakto me
> >>>>>>> in the terms you have.
>
> >>>>>> You don't know me.  Yes I would.
>
> >>>>> Actually, you wouldn't.  But you may feel free to contact me off-group
> >>>>> so that we can meet up.  I'd love to see you swallow some of your big
> >>>>> talk.
>
> >>>> There's no big talk here.
>
> >>> Except for your original quip.  
>
> >> The first "quip" I made was the observation that a concerned parent...
>
> > You didn't use the word "that".
>
> > Your re-spin is pathetic and laughable.
>
> >>> Which you wouldn't have the guts to
> >>> say to me in person.
>
> >> "Guts" are not the issue here ...
>
> > Of course they are.  You dare say something via computer, safe at home
> > that you would never dare say to my face.
>
> Just exactly what do you think I said that has made you so upset?

We'll talk soon, I'm sure. I'll explain it carefully to you at that
time.

E.P.

 

[Tom Sherman]

J. Taylor wrote:
> On 10 Jan 2008 03:27:58 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Jay Taylor writes:
>>
>>>>>>>> Well, no...
>>>>>>> Exactly. So have a big, steaming mug of STFU until you do.
>>>>>> Goodness.
>>>>> Either you are confused, or you are not a logical person.
>>>> Neither.
>>> Let's get to the nub.
>>> Do you require your child to wear or to not wear a helmet when cycling?
>> http://tinyurl.com/dm4pp
>>
>> On a ride with my son. Is that good enough?
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
> Who's taller?

Jobst's yellow bicycle appears to have a slightly larger frame than
Olaf's silver bicycle, and Jobst has more seatpost exposed, so it
appears Jobst is taller. This photo (with the same bicycles and clothing
- same trip?) also indicates Jobst is slightly taller:
<http://www.sbraweb.org/photos/2001/jobst/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

 

[Cycle Carl]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jan 9, 7:12 am, Ozark Bicycle
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hmmm.....around here, ~95% of the people cycling already wear a helmet
>> (I'm not saying that is a good or bad thing, it just is a fact) absent
>> a MHL.
>
> If so, that would make your area extremely, extremely unusual. I've
> studied this issue for over a decade. I don't recall ever hearing of
> any area with 95% helmeted riders. I've _certainly_ never heard of
> 95% helmets in a place with no MHL.
>
> If anyone can provide formal survey results showing such a high
> percentage of cyclists voluntarily helmeted, I'd certainly be
> interested.
>
> For comparison: I've done some counts on my own in NE Ohio and in
> western PA. Ohio has no MHL. PA has a poorly enforced one for
> kids.
>
> On one long, solo day ride I did (including crossing the state border)
> I was counting helmeted percentages on all cyclists. The helmeted
> percentage was staying pretty stable at around 25% (IIRC) until I got
> onto a bike trail. There, the people who had driven to the trail,
> parked, and began riding had a much, much higher percentage in
> helmets. IIRC, that drove the final percentage helmeted up, close to
> 50%. (Note, those numbers are from memory. I'd have to dig deep in
> my files to find the exact numbers.)
>
> Here's a typical formal survey result:
> http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/156/7/656.pdf
> with about 14% of kids wearing helmets.
>
> When I counted, I was careful to count absolutely every person I saw
> on a bicycle. This included all the kids on quiet neighborhood
> streets, sidewalks, driveways, etc., not just dedicated recreational
> cyclists.
>
> One friend of mine is an ex-MHL-promoter. She'd done similar counts
> to mine, and had reached similar results. Of course, in those days,
> she interpreted the results as tragic.
>
>> I do wonder how a MHL (which I do not favor) would reduce the
>> "rider numbers" to any noticeable degree.
>
> Well, if (as in the source cited above) 86% of kids prefer not to wear
> a helmet, it's not difficult to see why every MHL studied for this
> effect has shown such a drop in rider numbers.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

An informal survey in the Palo Alto, CA area.

Helmeted: 240
Unhelmeted: 3

There is a MHL for kids, but none for adults.

I made the tally during a ride this morning. Because of the MHL for kids, I
did not count them (however, all were helmeted). I could easily be off by
10 or so in the total, but I'm confident that the unhelmeted count is
correct. I counted every rider I passed, in either direction. Since I
counted both directions and I rode out-and-back, it is possible that I
counted some people twice. There are no duplicates in the unhelmeted count,
for sure. A significant number of riders (*guess* 50) were wearing the kit
of a local club, which may have a helmet requirement on its rides.

For locals interested in details, I started in Los Altos, riding
Foothill/Junipero Serra, Alpine, Portola, Old La Honda, Skyline, Woodside
Rd, Whiskey Hill, Sandhill, Junipero Serra/Foothill.

Obviously this is a single, not so scientific sample. Perhaps others would
like to contribute so we get a better understanding. Or not.

--
Carl