UK: Cyclists may be forced to ring their bells



cfsmtb

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Apr 11, 2003
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fyi - from the UK. While the need for awareness and improved education *should* have a higher priority, it's probably only a matter of time before another pollie has a brainfart & suggests a return to flag wavers walking ahead of the vehicle. Or worse. :D

*********

UK: Cyclists may be forced to ring their bells
By Jonathan Owen. Published: 10 September 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece

Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continually as they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their approach.

Although existing legislation makes bells a mandatory part of any new bike sold, people can remove them or choose not to use them. Under the proposals, cyclists would have to ensure their bikes carried working bells and would have to ring them every time they saw a pedestrian. Refusal to obey would be subject to on-the-spot fines or, in a worst-case scenario, two years in jail or a £2,500 fine.

Opponents of the plans accuse the government of a nanny state mentality. Graeme Obree, a world record-holding cyclist, called the proposal a "pointless exercise in red tape" and described the idea as "crazy". But officials have defended the plans, saying they are preparing for new rulings on cycling from the European Union later this year.

In a statement given to Parliament, Transport minister Stephen Ladyman pledged to hold a public consultation on the issue, saying "[this is] a sensible moment to review our current policies". Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, is also said to be thinking about making cyclists carry number-plates.

The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and cases of people going through red lights or riding on pavements, according to today's Sunday Telegraph. A dozen pedestrians have died in collisions with cyclists in the past five years, while 148 cyclists died on the roads last year alone - the highest total for six years.

Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continually as they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their approach.

Although existing legislation makes bells a mandatory part of any new bike sold, people can remove them or choose not to use them. Under the proposals, cyclists would have to ensure their bikes carried working bells and would have to ring them every time they saw a pedestrian. Refusal to obey would be subject to on-the-spot fines or, in a worst-case scenario, two years in jail or a £2,500 fine.

Opponents of the plans accuse the government of a nanny state mentality. Graeme Obree, a world record-holding cyclist, called the proposal a "pointless exercise in red tape" and described the idea as "crazy". But officials have defended the plans, saying they are preparing for new rulings on cycling from the European Union later this year.

In a statement given to Parliament, Transport minister Stephen Ladyman pledged to hold a public consultation on the issue, saying "[this is] a sensible moment to review our current policies". Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, is also said to be thinking about making cyclists carry number-plates.

The moves come amid concerns over accidents caused by cyclists and cases of people going through red lights or riding on pavements, according to today's Sunday Telegraph. A dozen pedestrians have died in collisions with cyclists in the past five years, while 148 cyclists died on the roads last year alone - the highest total for six years.
 
cfsmtb wrote:
> fyi - from the UK. While the need for awareness and improved education
> *should* have a higher priority, it's probably only a matter of time
> before another pollie has a brainfart & suggests a return to flag
> wavers walking ahead of the vehicle. Or worse. :D
>
> *********


I often find a bell is totally useless - a well shouted 'OI' is often more
effective, but often I have to stop, dismount, & tell the offenders they are on
a cyclist only path, before they start thinking about moving on. And on shared
pedestrian/bikeways, nothing works anyway, tourists are on another planet &
workers on their way into work won't move at any cost.

--
Karen

"Sometimes I think I have a Guardian Idiot - a little invisible spirit just
behind my shoulder, looking out for me ... only he's an imbecile" - Jake Stonebender
 
cfsmtb said:
fyi - from the UK. While the need for awareness and improved education *should* have a higher priority, it's probably only a matter of time before another pollie has a brainfart & suggests a return to flag wavers walking ahead of the vehicle. Or worse. :D

*********

UK: Cyclists may be forced to ring their bells
By Jonathan Owen. Published: 10 September 2006
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece
...
In a statement given to Parliament, Transport minister Stephen Ladyman pledged to hold a public consultation on the issue, saying "[this is] a sensible moment to review our current policies". Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, is also said to be thinking about making cyclists carry number-plates.
A climbdown from that position (as much as a politician can climb down) is published in the letters section of the Independent.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/letters/article1219693.ece
Road map to peace between cyclists, drivers and pedestrians

Sir: The negative response that James Daley has received for his backing of cyclists jumping red lights, including from cyclists themselves, indicates that it is in fact a minority of cyclists who are engaged in this activity ("I will go on breaking this extreme law", 15 August).

But James is wrong to rely on the argument that compared with the damage to the environment caused by cars, a little red light jumping by cyclists harms no one. In fact, it is amongst pedestrians that concern about red light jumping is palpable.

The best way to ensure a culture of co-operation and civility on our roads is not Daley's line that one group should unilaterally disobey the Highway Code, but to encourage all road users to stick to the rules equally. This applies to cyclists going through red lights and riding on the pavement, but also to motor vehicles parking in cycle lanes or monopolising the "advance stop" space for cyclists at junctions.

James is horrified that I may be considering a cycle registration scheme in response to red light jumping. Initial assessments from Transport for London show that a bike registration scheme would face a number of practical problems, and could discourage cycling, whereas my aim is to carry on increasing the numbers of cyclists. Given that such a scheme would have to be at least partly self-financing, the cost of registering cycles would also have to be passed on to cyclists, again discouraging cycling. A registration scheme could therefore only ever be seen as a difficult last resort.

What this means is that responsible cyclists and cycling organisations - and dare I say it cycling columnists - need to work with me to persuade the minority of cyclists who do not currently obey the rules of the road to take a responsible approach as part of an overall campaign to get all road users to do the same.

KEN LIVINGSTONE

MAYOR OF LONDON, CITY HALL, LONDON SE1
 
Duracell Bunny said:
cfsmtb wrote:
> fyi - from the UK. While the need for awareness and improved education
> *should* have a higher priority, it's probably only a matter of time
> before another pollie has a brainfart & suggests a return to flag
> wavers walking ahead of the vehicle. Or worse. :D
>
> *********


I often find a bell is totally useless - a well shouted 'OI' is often more
effective, but often I have to stop, dismount, & tell the offenders they are on
a cyclist only path, before they start thinking about moving on. And on shared
pedestrian/bikeways, nothing works anyway, tourists are on another planet &
workers on their way into work won't move at any cost.

--
Karen

"Sometimes I think I have a Guardian Idiot - a little invisible spirit just
behind my shoulder, looking out for me ... only he's an imbecile" - Jake Stonebender


How many times do we pass peds with earphones plugged in? Or chatting away to a companion? Any external noise is 9/10times disregarded. Ring your bell as much as you like, it's not going to make much difference to the majority of peds who aren't listening.
 
cfsmtb said:
fyi - from the UK.
...
Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost continually as they cycle along under government plans to force them not only to have bicycle bells fitted, but to use them to warn pedestrians of their approach.

Could we please have a lot of cyclists commuting past the houses of parliament all day long, ringing their bells? :) Some cyclists should also carry and use air zounds. Perhaps we need a bicycle bell that rings as the wheel goes around. Something a bit like a piece of cardboard pegged to the fork and sticking through the spokes, but a bit more in keeping with the dignity of an adult cyclist. With four bells you could even make it play Westminster Chimes, an appropriate choice for a London cyclist.


One of the nice things about cycling is that it is so quiet and peaceful compared to motor vehicles.
 
cfsmtb wrote:
> fyi - from the UK. While the need for awareness and improved education
> *should* have a higher priority, it's probably only a matter of time
> before another pollie has a brainfart & suggests a return to flag
> wavers walking ahead of the vehicle. Or worse. :D
>
> *********
>
> UK: Cyclists may be forced to ring their bells
> By Jonathan Owen. Published: 10 September 2006
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece
>
> Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost
> continually


No problem. I knew that underground mine car warning hooter would just
come in handy. Fit pulse motor to winding handle and momentary contact
button on handlebars and they will curl up in little balls out of the
road each time.
 
Terryc wrote:
> cfsmtb wrote:
>> fyi - from the UK. While the need for awareness and improved education
>> *should* have a higher priority, it's probably only a matter of time
>> before another pollie has a brainfart & suggests a return to flag
>> wavers walking ahead of the vehicle. Or worse. :D
>>
>> *********
>>
>> UK: Cyclists may be forced to ring their bells
>> By Jonathan Owen. Published: 10 September 2006
>> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece
>>
>> Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost
>> continually

>
> No problem. I knew that underground mine car warning hooter would just
> come in handy. Fit pulse motor to winding handle and momentary contact
> button on handlebars and they will curl up in little balls out of the
> road each time.
>


I wonder if I can get my Klaxon to work off dry batteries - it's rated at
something like 125dB, just what's needed to clear pedestrians :)

Of course I'd need to take it off my ute first!

--
Karen

"Sometimes I think I have a Guardian Idiot - a little invisible spirit just
behind my shoulder, looking out for me ... only he's an imbecile" - Jake Stonebender
 
Duracell Bunny said:
I often find a bell is totally useless - a well shouted 'OI' is often more
effective....
This is my preferred method using 'Rider' instead, though I find it hard to not sound aggressive yet loud.
 
ghostgum wrote:

<Snip>

> One of the nice things about cycling is that it is so quiet and
> peaceful compared to motor vehicles.


Agreed!

Completely insensible!
 
Duracell Bunny wrote:

>> No problem. I knew that underground mine car warning hooter would just
>> come in handy. Fit pulse motor to winding handle and momentary contact
>> button on handlebars and they will curl up in little balls out of the
>> road each time.
>>

>
> I wonder if I can get my Klaxon to work off dry batteries - it's rated
> at something like 125dB, just what's needed to clear pedestrians :)
>
> Of course I'd need to take it off my ute first!


That's the spirit. so long as they keep it the usual general "warning
device" phrase, we are in. {:). Of course, I'd just sling a SLA or wet
cell on the back rack. Hmm, must wonder off to supercheapautos to see
what they are flogging them for and the power consumption.

OTOH, I have rugged telephone extension bell, which if I could hook it
up to those spacy noise toys would be rather interesting (just have to
avoid the noises they've put in car alarms though).




>
 
wayneo wrote:
> Also people get annoyed when you ring bells at them.


Doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. I get the same reaction when I
ride off the path around them.

The idea of the hooter is to "freeze" them on the spot so you can safely
ride past. I find 50% of bell ringing suddenly results in you being dead
smack onto a living bike rack.
 
ghostgum said:
Could we please have a lot of cyclists commuting past the houses of parliament all day long, ringing their bells? :) Some cyclists should also carry and use air zounds. Perhaps we need a bicycle bell that rings as the wheel goes around. Something a bit like a piece of cardboard pegged to the fork and sticking through the spokes, but a bit more in keeping with the dignity of an adult cyclist. With four bells you could even make it play Westminster Chimes, an appropriate choice for a London cyclist.

If this issue is ever broached here in Aus, I'll be there with twin overhead AirZounds .. :D
 
warrwych wrote:
> Duracell Bunny Wrote:
> > cfsmtb wrote:
> > ... And on
> > shared
> > pedestrian/bikeways, nothing works anyway, tourists are on another
> > planet &
> > workers on their way into work won't move at any cost.

>
> How many times do we pass peds with earphones plugged in? Or chatting
> away to a companion? Any external noise is 9/10times disregarded. Ring
> your bell as much as you like, it's not going to make much difference
> to the majority of peds who aren't listening.


How many times do we pass other cyclists with earphones plugged in?

What's good for the goose...


BTH
 
<SNIP>
>
> How many times do we pass other cyclists with earphones plugged in?
>
> What's good for the goose...
>
>
>

Not often in my experience.
 
"BT Humble" wrote:
> warrwych wrote:
>> How many times do we pass peds with earphones plugged in? Or chatting
>> away to a companion? Any external noise is 9/10times disregarded. Ring
>> your bell as much as you like, it's not going to make much difference
>> to the majority of peds who aren't listening.

>
> How many times do we pass other cyclists with earphones plugged in?
>
> What's good for the goose...


Have you ever done this yourself?

I have just recently joined the younger set and bought myself an mp3 player.
I've been reluctant to use it while cycling, due to alleged safety risks,
not being able to hear the traffic etc. But I ride with a rear view mirror
and I find that I get much better info about what's behind, and where, from
a regular scan of the mirror. So I gave the mp3 a try the other day.

I set off with the volume at 12 (out of 20), a moderate level. I soon found
I needed to crank it up to about 15 to hear the music over the wind noise
and traffic. I could quite clearly hear all passing traffic, level-crossing
bells and other noises, and had a chat to a fellow rider along the way. It
is certainly no worse then someone in their padded cell with the radio
turned up, and no-one would dare to suggest that is unsafe.

So use your earphones while riding if you like it, just make judicious use
of the volume. On a lot of my riding I cycle with club members and one of
the greatest virtues is to be able to have a chat as we ride through the
countryside, so the mp3 will probably be reserved for solo travelling,
especially any longer tours I do this way.
--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
 
--
Frank
[email protected]
Drop DACKS to reply
"JayWoo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Duracell Bunny Wrote:
> >
> > I often find a bell is totally useless - a well shouted 'OI' is often
> > more
> > effective.... This is my preferred method using 'Rider' instead, though

I find it
> hard to not sound aggressive yet loud.
>
>
> --
> JayWoo


I found a loudish (without yelling) "ding ding - bicycle noises" accompanied
by a smile when people turn around works wonders - they smile back and move
out of the way. My bike bell just seems to prompt people to ignore me. I
wonder if that's because of the perception of cyclists who think they own
the shared path? Much like the perception many cyclists express toward
motorists who think they own the road. I know if someone honks their horn at
me on the road all it does is sloooow meee dooooown... I wonder if bicycle
bells do the same to some pedestrians.

me
 
--
Frank
[email protected]
Drop DACKS to reply
"Terryc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:450509da$0$4668$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au.
...
> cfsmtb wrote:
> > fyi - from the UK. While the need for awareness and improved education
> > *should* have a higher priority, it's probably only a matter of time
> > before another pollie has a brainfart & suggests a return to flag
> > wavers walking ahead of the vehicle. Or worse. :D
> >
> > *********
> >
> > UK: Cyclists may be forced to ring their bells
> > By Jonathan Owen. Published: 10 September 2006
> > http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1433446.ece
> >
> > Cyclists in busy urban areas may have to sound a bell almost
> > continually

>
> No problem. I knew that underground mine car warning hooter would just
> come in handy. Fit pulse motor to winding handle and momentary contact
> button on handlebars and they will curl up in little balls out of the
> road each time.


Just thought: When I was cycling through Germany last year a number of
pedestrians told me off for NOT ringing my bell as I approached. Coming from
the Oz culture, where bells seem to be seen as insulting (to peds) and
demeaning (to cyclists) I carried some of that attitude with me. It took me
a day or two to learn differently. It's surely no hassle to let people know
you're there.

me
 
Plodder wrote:

> Just thought: When I was cycling through Germany last year a number of
> pedestrians told me off for NOT ringing my bell as I approached. Coming from
> the Oz culture, where bells seem to be seen as insulting (to peds) and
> demeaning (to cyclists) I carried some of that attitude with me. It took me
> a day or two to learn differently. It's surely no hassle to let people know
> you're there.


When in Rome, do,,,,,,,,

When in Australia, don't bother. As I said in another post;

ring bell well back, ignore/not noticed,
ring bell closer, ignored/not noticed
ring bell behind, AAARK 50% jump in front, 50% stay still, abuse
don't ring bell = abuse
ride well clear and go around only equals abuse from idiots poms who
still think you should ring your bell.

Bells sux, investigate airhorn {:)
 
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:19:10 +0800
Plodder <[email protected]> wrote:
> the shared path? Much like the perception many cyclists express toward
> motorists who think they own the road. I know if someone honks their horn at
> me on the road all it does is sloooow meee dooooown... I wonder if bicycle
> bells do the same to some pedestrians.


I feel they are a bit premeptory myself, when I ring the bell I feel a
bit like I'm saying 'move over inferior life form'. I don't know if
the peds think that or not.

Sometimes I ring, sometimes I call "excuse me", I always say "thank
you" when they move over. Only problem I've had is guessing which
side they will move to, some seem to keep left, others seem to cross
the whole path to keep right!

Zebee
 

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