UK should be closer to France than the US

[Rafiki]

Sorry if this is old ground... but I'm new to the forum, and can't be arsed reading through loads of what has been said... just been through a few reams...and this is in vogue, but hasn't been said.

From my angle, the people of the UK are a good deal closer to the culture and mentality of the people of mainland Europe than they are to the people in the USA. The US approach seems to be to live to work... Europeans work to live... and enjoy their leisure. I prefer the Euro approach. Euro business is morally more justified: more concerns about working conditions, morality etc. Europeans are more concerned about green issues. And European sportsmen are less prone to use drugs...

This is what brassed me off about the Iraq War. The Franco-German hesitance was totally justified: Iraq seemed to be motivated by the little boy wanting to avenge his dad getting his rear end kicked... as well as wanting the US to have a mega oil reserve to draw upon for their ecologically unsound economy once the barbaric Saudi regime goes into a state of disrepair. If we stuck by our Euro allies, then the Euro bond would have been stronger. As it is, the rather right wing leader of our leftish government would have maintained popularity and stopped the country being seen as the US poodle.

Finally, as the Chinese have bought up most of the US debt... and lets face it, the US economy is a total joke... then if they start to call in the debt... Yay! the first world will shake... and I'd much prefer our economy to be intertwined with Europe than the shaky economics of 'spending our way out of difficulty'. If I tried the 'spending my way out of difficulty' approach at home I think the banks would take the ****.

Rant out of the way. More of a Euro-centric approach from the UK preferred!!!

 

[wilmar13]

This is what brassed me off about the Iraq War. The Franco-German hesitance was totally justified: Iraq seemed to be motivated by the little boy wanting to avenge his dad getting his rear end kicked... as well as wanting the US to have a mega oil reserve to draw upon for their ecologically unsound economy once the barbaric Saudi regime goes into a state of disrepair.

You are free to rant all the anti US stuff you want but just have your facts straight first. GB Sr. never got his ass kicked, he was much smarter (or at least his admin. was) and turned around after they had removed Iraq from Kuwait and pretty much neutered Sadaam. They knew there was no way to win a march on Baghdad as it is just too f*cked up there. Now return to your rant and feel free to pick on GB Jr. all you want...

 

[FredC]

Sorry if this is old ground... but I'm new to the forum, and can't be arsed reading through loads of what has been said... just been through a few reams...and this is in vogue, but hasn't been said.

From my angle, the people of the UK are a good deal closer to the culture and mentality of the people of mainland Europe than they are to the people in the USA. The US approach seems to be to live to work... Europeans work to live... and enjoy their leisure. I prefer the Euro approach. Euro business is morally more justified: more concerns about working conditions, morality etc. Europeans are more concerned about green issues. And European sportsmen are less prone to use drugs...

This is what brassed me off about the Iraq War. The Franco-German hesitance was totally justified: Iraq seemed to be motivated by the little boy wanting to avenge his dad getting his rear end kicked... as well as wanting the US to have a mega oil reserve to draw upon for their ecologically unsound economy once the barbaric Saudi regime goes into a state of disrepair. If we stuck by our Euro allies, then the Euro bond would have been stronger. As it is, the rather right wing leader of our leftish government would have maintained popularity and stopped the country being seen as the US poodle.

Finally, as the Chinese have bought up most of the US debt... and lets face it, the US economy is a total joke... then if they start to call in the debt... Yay! the first world will shake... and I'd much prefer our economy to be intertwined with Europe than the shaky economics of 'spending our way out of difficulty'. If I tried the 'spending my way out of difficulty' approach at home I think the banks would take the ****.

Rant out of the way. More of a Euro-centric approach from the UK preferred!!!

Good post Rafiki, good stuff, another tool in our box along with Darkboong to add to our armoury. Darkboong also a local to us Dentdale, Ribblehead Viaduct. A jest nu yud like it here. No one liners, use as much width as you like.

 

[el Ingles]

You are free to rant all the anti US stuff you want but just have your facts straight first. GB Sr. never got his ass kicked, he was much smarter (or at least his admin. was) and turned around after they had removed Iraq from Kuwait and pretty much neutered Sadaam. They knew there was no way to win a march on Baghdad as it is just too f*cked up there. Now return to your rant and feel free to pick on GB Jr. all you want...

I don´t like that the USA , under Bush´s religious crusade , wants to rule the world , ¿ but why do they get so upset because we don´t love them for it ?

 

[zapper]

I don´t like that the USA , under Bush´s religious crusade , wants to rule the world , ¿ but why do they get so upset because we don´t love them for it ?

Americans don't get upset if you don't looooove them...They only get upset when you want to visit and take advantage of American hospitality then talk **** about the country....carry on...

 

[limerickman]

Sorry if this is old ground... but I'm new to the forum, and can't be arsed reading through loads of what has been said... just been through a few reams...and this is in vogue, but hasn't been said.

From my angle, the people of the UK are a good deal closer to the culture and mentality of the people of mainland Europe than they are to the people in the USA. The US approach seems to be to live to work... Europeans work to live... and enjoy their leisure. I prefer the Euro approach. Euro business is morally more justified: more concerns about working conditions, morality etc. Europeans are more concerned about green issues. And European sportsmen are less prone to use drugs...

This is what brassed me off about the Iraq War. The Franco-German hesitance was totally justified: Iraq seemed to be motivated by the little boy wanting to avenge his dad getting his rear end kicked... as well as wanting the US to have a mega oil reserve to draw upon for their ecologically unsound economy once the barbaric Saudi regime goes into a state of disrepair. If we stuck by our Euro allies, then the Euro bond would have been stronger. As it is, the rather right wing leader of our leftish government would have maintained popularity and stopped the country being seen as the US poodle.

Finally, as the Chinese have bought up most of the US debt... and lets face it, the US economy is a total joke... then if they start to call in the debt... Yay! the first world will shake... and I'd much prefer our economy to be intertwined with Europe than the shaky economics of 'spending our way out of difficulty'. If I tried the 'spending my way out of difficulty' approach at home I think the banks would take the ****.

Rant out of the way. More of a Euro-centric approach from the UK preferred!!!

Total agree with you.
On this side of the Irish Sea, they have a saying "closer to Berlin or closer to Boston ?".
The political parties here try to create an economic template that incorporates the best of Europe and the best of the USA, in economic terms.

Warren Buffet - the sage of Omaha - has recently said that his own country in economic terms is facing a very very serious situation.
Buffet is normally correct when it comes to these judgements.

 

[wilmar13]

I don´t like that the USA , under Bush´s religious crusade , wants to rule the world , ¿ but why do they get so upset because we don´t love them for it ?

Well please don't flame me for this as I am not saying it is correct but one thing you must understand about many Americans: it is ingrained in us from birth that if we don't do something no one will and it will have catastrophic consequences. It was beat into my head in school how we were very isolationist before WWI and even upon the start very against getting involved, as a result millions of people lost their lives, again not learning our lesson we did not want to get involved in the worlds problems and it led to death on a massive scale with WW2, of course after this the US began to stick its nose into everything. Right or wrong we are raised with the responsibility and try to prevent problems before they get too big... not that it is the correct thing to do. Please don't think that 90% of Americans want to "take over the world". Perhaps enforce our values onto others in a naive attempt to prevent greater damage would be more accurate. Of course this isn't the real reason that the US invaded Iraq, but it is part of the reason that many Americans support the facade of a justified war.

 

[zapper]

Warren Buffet - the sage of Omaha - has recently said that his own country in economic terms is facing a very very serious situation.
Buffet is normally correct when it comes to these judgements.

What does this have to do with this thread? Why don't you just copy and paste this to your signature and you won't have to type it so many times....

 

[jaguar75]

Sorry if this is old ground... but I'm new to the forum, and can't be arsed reading through loads of what has been said... just been through a few reams...and this is in vogue, but hasn't been said.

Since you are new to the forum and come running out of the gate blazing away I should warn you that most of the folks that routinely post in here are strongly convicted in their beliefs but most will admit when a point is valid and I have actually looked at some things differently since going back and forth with the European clans that post regularly...that having been said...the gloves are off....

From my angle, the people of the UK are a good deal closer to the culture and mentality of the people of mainland Europe than they are to the people in the USA. The US approach seems to be to live to work... Europeans work to live... and enjoy their leisure. I prefer the Euro approach. Euro business is morally more justified: more concerns about working conditions, morality etc. Europeans are more concerned about green issues. And European sportsmen are less prone to use drugs...

Hmm..how do you assume this...the US culture is comprised of many European cultures and traditions of such exist very strongly within those sub cultures...My heratige is Irish...I live in a state that is French to the core. There are many Parish's where the people there speak only Cajun French...Look at N.Y., California...There are places that have names like China Town, Little Italy...ETC...These places did not get these names because they were cute. Don't pretend to know the culture of an entire nation when you know nothing of the nation.

Europeans work to live... and enjoy their leisure.

This is never more apparent when These pleasure nations call upon the US to remove the next sadistic leader that keeps popping up from time to time in your lax war torn nations. Yes, thats right Rafiki, you have to claim them too.
Maybe if you were less leisurely you would be able to tak out your own trash.

Euro business is morally more justified: more concerns about working conditions, morality etc.

WHAT!!! You might want to educate yourself more before you post Rafiki...Look up these terms...Unions, Affirmative Action, AFL/CIO, NAACP, ACLU, TEAMSTERS, TWU, etc....

Finally, as the Chinese have bought up most of the US debt... and lets face it, the US economy is a total joke... then if they start to call in the debt... Yay! the first world will shake... and I'd much prefer our economy to be intertwined with Europe than the shaky economics of 'spending our way out of difficulty'. If I tried the 'spending my way out of difficulty' approach at home I think the banks would take the ****.

Oh...MY...GOD!!! Were you born yesterday...The US economy is a joke...Dude the US. economy is the bedrock by which all other markets survive...if the US economy fails the world financial market will self destruct...plain and simple...you will see anarchy at its finest...I will also say that Just as everyone else is dependant on the US so we are on them...World trade is makes the world go round. Just because the Euro is worth slightly more than the dollar does not give you the right to pull out your rusty soap box and start bashing the US's recession. Because when the European economy crashes again and the US is called for a bailout as it always is time and time again you will again be our best friends until you are back on your feet and standing on your soapbox etc, etc, etc...

This is what brassed me off about the Iraq War. The Franco-German hesitance was totally justified: Iraq seemed to be motivated by the little boy wanting to avenge his dad getting his rear end kicked... as well as wanting the US to have a mega oil reserve to draw upon for their ecologically unsound economy once the barbaric Saudi regime goes into a state of disrepair.

Another great display of your mis-informed argument. I am sick and tired of hearing the oil argument...The middle east is the 3rd largest supplier of oil to this country...Venezuela and Mexico are #1 and #2. Russia is #4...gee don't you think that if we really were after the oil we would attack Mexico or Venezuela?...Don't you think their resistance would be a little more futile...come on man wake up and actually come up with your own thoughts instead of reading your political newspapers and following the masses of stupid chants.

 

[FredC]

Since you are new to the forum and come running out of the gate blazing away I should warn you that most of the folks that routinely post in here are strongly convicted in their beliefs but most will admit when a point is valid and I have actually looked at some things differently since going back and forth with the European clans that post regularly...that having been said...the gloves are off....

Admit valid points? You're not including Zapper, are you? Lissen up. That extreme weather topic. Do you know it was so bad here in the fall last year that the wind blew all the leaves of the trees, and they've only just come back.

 

[jaguar75]

That extreme weather topic. Do you know it was so bad here in the fall last year that the wind blew all the leaves of the trees, and they've only just come back.

LOL...isn't that what usually happens when winter arrives. Trees shed their leaves? Correct me if I am wrong...

 

[FredC]

LOL...isn't that what usually happens when winter arrives. Trees shed their leaves? Correct me if I am wrong...

Dunno, I'm only one.

 

[Rafiki]

Hmm..how do you assume this...the US culture is comprised of many European cultures and traditions of such exist very strongly within those sub cultures...

Most of the early Europeans who went to the Americas were outsiders in Europe... they went to the 'new land' cos they were outsiders in Europe... like the strict puritans and other outcasts. One problem the US has is cultural identity. There is no real cultural heritage: or, rather, the cultural heritage that there should have been has been brushed under the carpet.

Instead, a culture of the spectacle exists... hype and spectacle. The holywood mentatlity that creates a history through films that are totally inaccurate. Like U-571... it shows the US navy capturing the enigma code machine from a German submarine... The historical fact is that it was a UK sub that captured the enigma machine and sent it to Bletchley Park where it was useful in decoding the German messages... This aberation of history is repeated regularly... like it being the white settlers who earnt money by scalping native indians... but the movies show the barbarism the other way round...

 

[Rafiki]

Another great display of your mis-informed argument. I am sick and tired of hearing the oil argument...The middle east is the 3rd largest supplier of oil to this country...Venezuela and Mexico are #1 and #2. Russia is #4...gee don't you think that if we really were after the oil we would attack Mexico or Venezuela?...Don't you think their resistance would be a little more futile...come on man wake up and actually come up with your own thoughts instead of reading your political newspapers and following the masses of stupid chants.

The fact is the Bushes (including the first incarnation) have brushed up to the Sauds... even after 11 Sept twin towers allowing Saudi people out of the country before the investigation could begin... The Saud connection has been a big part of Republican foreign policy... whether that is for political or personal gain is immaterial. The fact is that the Saud supply of oil is a bit risky... the Iraq supply is ready for tapping into... And if the Saud/US influence is diminishing in the area the US want another source of influence...

 

[jaguar75]

Most of the early Europeans who went to the Americas were outsiders in Europe... they went to the 'new land' cos they were outsiders in Europe... like the strict puritans and other outcasts. One problem the US has is cultural identity. There is no real cultural heritage: or, rather, the cultural heritage that there should have been has been brushed under the carpet.

Instead, a culture of the spectacle exists... hype and spectacle. The holywood mentatlity that creates a history through films that are totally inaccurate. Like U-571... it shows the US navy capturing the enigma code machine from a German submarine... The historical fact is that it was a UK sub that captured the enigma machine and sent it to Bletchley Park where it was useful in decoding the German messages... This aberation of history is repeated regularly... like it being the white settlers who earnt money by scalping native indians... but the movies show the barbarism the other way round...

Man...I think you watch to many of those movies yourself...anyone knows that Hollywood is all about entertainment and some of the time loosely based on fact...Everyone who knows anything about history knows that the Brits got the enigma machine...its ENTERTAINMENT

You are coming up with some weak and frankly pathetic stuff dude and using a lot of fancy words.

The US was not founded by "outsideers" the US was founded by English protestants that needed a place to go to practice their religon and escape genocide by a muderous King Henry...I hardly call that "outcasts" It's more like survival...

And another thing...you have it all backwards...people don't come here because Europe kicks them out, as you would have it saound, people come here because unlike europe ANYONE has a chance to achieve wealth and prosperity. This nation may be a melting pot but it truely is the land of opportunity not the land of rejects as you see it.

 

[Rafiki]

WHAT!!! You might want to educate yourself more before you post Rafiki...Look up these terms...Unions, Affirmative Action, AFL/CIO, NAACP, ACLU, TEAMSTERS, TWU, etc....

From what we hear they are relatively weak... and need strengthening... Like the Teamsters being influenced by organised crime... and the lack of following basic environmental policies... What about Kyoto? Any nation being as environmentally barbaric as the US would respond... your plutocracy doesn't allow for such sensible moods... after all, the cult of big business, not least the car, is too important for the good of future generations...

The US economy is a joke...Dude the US. economy is the bedrock by which all other markets survive...if the US economy fails the world financial market will self destruct...plain and simple......Because when the European economy crashes again and the US is called for a bailout as it always is time and time again you will again be our best friends until you are back on your feet and standing on your soapbox etc, etc, etc...

You cause more problems economically that you solve... like not allowing free trade when it suits... or allowing US multinationals to stagnate the economies of third world countries... If the bubble burst it would be the us stagnation that would follow... And as regards Europe bailing out the US.. that's a laugh. The last time that happened was after the US were trading in arms to the Nazis and the Allies... then joined in to join the Allies... and ended the war gaining massive debts... The joke is that now the US economy is massively overspent and is in a much worse state than the Euro economies... If/When China becomes the 'real' bedrock of the world economy... then the US will be reaping the reward they deserve.

 

[jaguar75]

From what we hear they are relatively weak... and need strengthening... Like the Teamsters being influenced by organised crime... and the lack of following basic environmental policies... What about Kyoto? Any nation being as environmentally barbaric as the US would respond... your plutocracy doesn't allow for such sensible moods... after all, the cult of big business, not least the car, is too important for the good of future generations...



You cause more problems economically that you solve... like not allowing free trade when it suits... or allowing US multinationals to stagnate the economies of third world countries... If the bubble burst it would be the us stagnation that would follow... And as regards Europe bailing out the US.. that's a laugh. The last time that happened was after the US were trading in arms to the Nazis and the Allies... then joined in to join the Allies... and ended the war gaining massive debts... The joke is that now the US economy is massively overspent and is in a much worse state than the Euro economies... If/When China becomes the 'real' bedrock of the world economy... then the US will be reaping the reward they deserve.

Dude...you are dangerous and you scare me...Please tell me you are not sitting in a room with all of the windows blacked out and a stockpile of weapons and explosives all about...

 

[Rafiki]

Dude...you are dangerous and you scare me...Please tell me you are not sitting in a room with all of the windows blacked out and a stockpile of weapons and explosives all about...

Lol! That's the first time I've been called dangerous!!! And you ought to realise, in the UK we don't have weapons and explosives as a routine... (We don't have that loopy gun lobby you have!!!)
I don't like the gung-ho approach of the US policy makers... and the immoral approach of many of the multinational companies that originate there.
Long live Gore Vidal!!!

 

[limerickman]

Oh...MY...GOD!!! Were you born yesterday...The US economy is a joke...Dude the US. economy is the bedrock by which all other markets survive...if the US economy fails the world financial market will self destruct...plain and simple...you will see anarchy at its finest...I will also say that Just as everyone else is dependant on the US so we are on them...World trade is makes the world go round. Just because the Euro is worth slightly more than the dollar does not give you the right to pull out your rusty soap box and start bashing the US's recession. Because when the European economy crashes again and the US is called for a bailout as it always is time and time again you will again be our best friends until you are back on your feet and standing on your soapbox etc, etc, etc...

You're mistaken, 75.

The fact of the matter is that the US economy and US "wealth" is actually owned by foreigners at present.
Currently foreign banks fund the asset base of the US economy and they also fund the supply of money which you people use to buy products which you cannot afford.

Your entire economy in terms of both personal expenditure and goverment debt and foreign trade debt, is funded through credit.
Credit that is supplied from outside of the USA.

In previous times, your country was able to rely upon the great manufacturing entities to bail your country out.
But companies in your country no longer manufacture.

Your economy is a service economy - eating out, financial services etc.
So consumer expenditure needs to continue to grow to keep your economy going.
How do you keep consumers spending, when they have no money ?
You offer them more credit and then pray that they will somehow generate enough money to repay what they owe.

I think the problem that you guys face is very serious and will come more tangible as your country's interest rates get higher.

 

[jaguar75]

Lol! That's the first time I've been called dangerous!!! And you ought to realise, in the UK we don't have weapons and explosives as a routine... (We don't have that loopy gun lobby you have!!!)
I don't like the gung-ho approach of the US policy makers... and the immoral approach of many of the multinational companies that originate there.
Long live Gore Vidal!!!

Well...if you were sitting in a blacked out room you probably would not have purchased the weapons legally in the first place.

Loopy gun lobby...you are funny...

(We don't have that loopy gun lobby you have!!!)

Ohh man you had to go there didn't you...

...and the immoral approach of many of the multinational companies that originate there. long live Gore Vidal!!!

Ok quit making blanket statements and support your answers with examples