Ullrich Faces Uncertain Future

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Cucycln, May 9, 2003.

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  1. Cucycln

    Cucycln Guest

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  2. > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    >
    > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    >
    USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous. He could be a good
    backup to Heras.
     
  3. Bart

    Bart Guest

    Lefevere has been poaching again, and this time Jan should know what to do.
     
  4. Cucycln

    Cucycln Guest

    "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >
    > > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    > >
    > > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    > >
    > USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous. He could be a good backup to
    > Heras.
    >
    No the USPS...couldn't I think he would be like the last one they released... I think it was a
    drug test. Ullrich has a history of coke....not good. He should of went with CSC...with his buddy
    Bjarne Riis...not he wanted $$$$$$ now, but that would have come with success at CSC. Now he's
    alone in the cold.
     
  5. "CuCycln" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    > > >
    > > > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    > > >
    > > USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous.
    He
    > > could be a good backup to Heras.
    > >
    > No the USPS...couldn't I think he would be like the last one they released... I think it was a
    > drug test. Ullrich has a history of coke....not good.

    Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.

    He also isn't worth much to USPS - they have somenone who is more capable of winning the
    TdF than he.

    Ullrich is worth much more to another team - that is why he will end up on another team - another
    team will be willing to pay him more $$$.

    Cost/benefit analysis is what the managers of those teams do when considering moves like this.
    Obviously, fans can be much less businesslike.
     
  6. Brad W.

    Brad W. New Member

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    Also, keep in mind that he has had surprisingly good results this year -- one win already, good finish as Liege, etc. It is very likely that another team will be more willing to pick him up now, knowing that he isn't fat and out of shape, than at the start of the season.
     
  7. Cucycln

    Cucycln Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "CuCycln" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    > > > >
    > > > > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    > > > >
    > > > USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous.
    > He
    > > > could be a good backup to Heras.
    > > >
    > > No the USPS...couldn't I think he would be like the last one they released... I think it was a
    > > drug test. Ullrich has a history of coke....not good.

    >
    >
    >
    > Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.
    My mistake.................
    >
    > He also isn't worth much to USPS - they have somenone who is more capable
    of
    > winning the TdF than he.
    >
    > Ullrich is worth much more to another team - that is why he will end up on another team - another
    > team will be willing to pay him more $$$.
    >
    > Cost/benefit analysis is what the managers of those teams do when considering moves like this.
    > Obviously, fans can be much less
    businesslike.
     
  8. Hawke

    Hawke Guest

  9. Ronald

    Ronald Guest

    > USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous. He could be a good backup to
    > Heras.

    Ullrich can't go to USPS, he's addicted to the feel of the 8 speed Campagnolo shifters and USPS
    use Shimano.

    "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >
    > > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    > >
    > > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    > >
    > USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous. He could be a good backup to
    > Heras.
     
  10. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:TjSua.15824
    > Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.

    <Snip>
    >

    > He also isn't worth much to USPS - they have somenone who is more capable
    of
    > winning the TdF than he.
    >
    > Ullrich is worth much more to another team - that is why he will end up on another team - another
    > team will be willing to pay him more $$$.
    >

    According to Jan, it's not about the money ;-)

    > Cost/benefit analysis is what the managers of those teams do when considering moves like this.
    > Obviously, fans can be much less
    businesslike.
    >

    It makes sense only in one way - I don't think Ulrich considers himself to be a contender in the
    Tour. If he signed a one year deal with USPS, he'd a least get a chance to ride the TdF, maybe get a
    podium finish. Mostly, he'd get a chance to ride himself into shape and not worry about his
    paycheck. For Ulrich, this season is really preparation for next year. In return, USPS gets a strong
    rider to help Lance fend off ONCE, and maybe get some more help in the Vuelta. The (unrealistic)
    pressure to win in the GC would not be there for Jan and he might even get a stage win along the
    way. It would only work if Jan was willing to accept that role.
     
  11. "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Lefevere has been poaching again, and this time Jan should know what to
    do.

    They need each other.

    Jan need a stable team.

    QuickStep needs some positive publicity. They were all set to dominate the Classics, then Lotto/Domo
    came in and stole the show. What a turn of events. With the firepower Lefevere had at his disposal
    on paper, who would have foreseen this?
     
  12. Cucycln

    Cucycln Guest

    "Hawke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "CuCycln" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-dc&prov=reuters&type=lgns
    > >
    > > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    > >
    > > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    >
    > No Problem!
    >
    > Jan will live to ride another day. He has looked remarkably good so far, while Lance has looked
    > unremarkable.
    >
    > Hawke
    >
    Armstrong has been that bad...oh unless you consider finishing 10 in a race bad. I think Jan has
    finished worse. But one thing that Armstrong has the Jan doesn't...

    A team. a strong Team.
     
  13. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Lefevere has been poaching again, and this time Jan should know what to
    > do.
    >
    >
    >
    > They need each other.
    >
    > Jan need a stable team.
    >
    > QuickStep needs some positive publicity. They were all set to dominate the Classics, then
    > Lotto/Domo came in and stole the show. What a turn of events. With the firepower Lefevere had at
    > his disposal on paper, who would have foreseen this?
    >
    >

    Not to mention Jan and VDB seem to get on pretty well (re: VDBs helping Ullrich during the 1999
    Vuelta). They could be a lethal combo, if in shape.
     
  14. "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:TjSua.15824
    > > Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.
    >
    > <Snip>
    > >
    >
    >
    > > He also isn't worth much to USPS - they have somenone who is more
    capable
    > of
    > > winning the TdF than he.
    > >
    > > Ullrich is worth much more to another team - that is why he will end up
    on
    > > another team - another team will be willing to pay him more $$$.
    > >
    >
    > According to Jan, it's not about the money ;-)
    >
    > > Cost/benefit analysis is what the managers of those teams do when considering moves like this.
    > > Obviously, fans can be much less
    > businesslike.
    > >
    >
    > It makes sense only in one way - I don't think Ulrich considers himself to be a contender in the
    > Tour. If he signed a one year deal with USPS, he'd a least get a chance to ride the TdF, maybe get
    > a podium finish. Mostly,
    he'd
    > get a chance to ride himself into shape and not worry about his paycheck.

    <snip>

    You're thinking like a fan, not a businessman. It is those in the business who will make the
    determination of who will end up with Jan.

    The value of Jan, as with any racer, is the publicity that he will generate for the team. That's
    what the sponsor pays for.

    USPS will not really get much additional publicity with Jan. They've got the 4-time Tour
    Winner on board.

    QuickStep (mentioned by Bart as courting Jan) may receive a tenfold increase in publicity if they
    had Jan on the squad.

    Teams like QuickStep will pay much, much more for Jan because he is worth much more to them.

    This scenario will be false only if you believe Jan when he says it's not about the $$$.

    BTW, Jan is a contender for the Tour. He's never finished worse than 2nd. If something happens to
    Armstrong, he's the next in line.
     
  15. Kendall

    Kendall Guest

    "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:TjSua.15824
    > > Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.
    >
    > <Snip>
    > >
    >
    >
    > > He also isn't worth much to USPS - they have somenone who is more
    capable
    > of
    > > winning the TdF than he.
    > >
    > > Ullrich is worth much more to another team - that is why he will end up
    on
    > > another team - another team will be willing to pay him more $$$.
    > >
    >
    > According to Jan, it's not about the money ;-)
    >
    > > Cost/benefit analysis is what the managers of those teams do when considering moves like this.
    > > Obviously, fans can be much less
    > businesslike.
    > >
    >
    > It makes sense only in one way - I don't think Ulrich considers himself to be a contender in the
    > Tour. If he signed a one year deal with USPS, he'd a least get a chance to ride the TdF, maybe get
    > a podium finish. Mostly,
    he'd
    > get a chance to ride himself into shape and not worry about his paycheck. For Ulrich, this season
    > is really preparation for next year. In return, USPS gets a strong rider to help Lance fend off
    > ONCE, and maybe get some more help in the Vuelta. The (unrealistic) pressure to win in the GC
    would
    > not be there for Jan and he might even get a stage win along the way. It would only work if Jan
    > was willing to accept that role.
    >

    I think USPS may have more trouble fending off Telecom than Once.

    Kendall
     
  16. Chris II

    Chris II Guest

    "CuCycln" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Hawke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> "CuCycln" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> > http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-dc&prov=reuters&type=lgns
    >> >
    >> > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    >> >
    >> > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    >>
    >> No Problem!
    >>
    >> Jan will live to ride another day. He has looked remarkably good so far, while Lance has looked
    >> unremarkable.
    >>
    >> Hawke
    >>
    > Armstrong has been that bad...oh unless you consider finishing 10 in a race bad. I think Jan has
    > finished worse. But one thing that Armstrong has the Jan doesn't...
    >
    > A team. a strong Team.
    >
    >
    not only a string team but a team that understands you HAVE TO PAY you riders.(Maybe Coast thinks
    they are a D3 team like saturn and doesn't have to pay their riders)
     
  17. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:TjSua.15824
    > > > Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.
    > >
    > > <Snip>
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > > He also isn't worth much to USPS - they have somenone who is more
    > capable
    > > of
    > > > winning the TdF than he.
    > > >
    > > > Ullrich is worth much more to another team - that is why he will end
    up
    > on
    > > > another team - another team will be willing to pay him more $$$.
    > > >
    > >
    > > According to Jan, it's not about the money ;-)
    > >
    > > > Cost/benefit analysis is what the managers of those teams do when considering moves like this.
    > > > Obviously, fans can be much less
    > > businesslike.
    > > >
    > >
    > > It makes sense only in one way - I don't think Ulrich considers himself
    to
    > > be a contender in the Tour. If he signed a one year deal with USPS, he'd
    a
    > > least get a chance to ride the TdF, maybe get a podium finish. Mostly,
    > he'd
    > > get a chance to ride himself into shape and not worry about his
    paycheck.
    >
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    > You're thinking like a fan, not a businessman. It is those in the business who will make the
    > determination of who will end up with Jan.
    >

    I didn't say that it was likely. It's the only way that I could see Jan rationalizing a move to USPS

    > The value of Jan, as with any racer, is the publicity that he will
    generate
    > for the team. That's what the sponsor pays for.
    >
    > USPS will not really get much additional publicity with Jan. They've got
    the
    > 4-time Tour Winner on board.
    >
    > QuickStep (mentioned by Bart as courting Jan) may receive a tenfold
    increase
    > in publicity if they had Jan on the squad.
    >
    > Teams like QuickStep will pay much, much more for Jan because he is worth much more to them.
    >

    QuickStep is a great team for one day races and a few stages, but do you think they can support a GC
    contender?

    > This scenario will be false only if you believe Jan when he says it's not about the $$$.

    If it is about the money, I think we may see him go to a team that's on the bubble for the TdF. He
    really needs to be on a team built around supporting him in the grand tours. That's why I think if
    he goes elsewhere, he'll sign a deal to finish out this year and then look for a big score in 2004.

    >
    > BTW, Jan is a contender for the Tour. He's never finished worse than 2nd.
    If
    > something happens to Armstrong, he's the next in line.

    I think this depends on what team he's on. He's admitted that he doesn't have the base miles he
    would have from a "normal" year. If he has to do a lot of work on his own I think he will be
    susceptible to one or two bad days in the mountains. Beloki and others are now better riders, Jan is
    not as good as he was. It would not surprise me to see him fade in the last week of the tour and
    struggle to stay in the top ten.

    -T
     
  18. Kyle Legate

    Kyle Legate Guest

    Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
    >
    > Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.
    >
    A single proven instance does not define a history.
     
  19. > USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous. He could be a good backup to
    > Heras.

    I don't think it would make tactical sense for USPS to sign Jan this year, for one year only, and
    essentially help him back to the top in time to be in peak form next year as Lance's primary
    adversary if Lance, at that time, is going for #6. Talk about psyche games.

    After Jan's recent debacles, I'd think it would make sense to go for some stability, a longer-term
    contract with a proven team. Jan's already proved he's capable of coming back; I don't think we're
    looking at a Pantani-style mentality.

    If USPS wanted to sign Jan for a multi-year contract that goes beyond 2004, that might make sense.
    You could virtually guarantee Jan top-dog status and support at that time. But does anybody besides
    me question if USPS will even exist in the post-Lance days? Didn't I read that every rider on the
    team is signed up through 2004... and, thinking aloud here, if Lance did manage to win #5 & #6
    consecutively, is it really likely he'd keep going past that (aside from the usual hour-record
    attempt that's traditional prior to retirement)?

    PS: Lance winning #5 & #6 is anything but a foregone conclusion in my book. Sure, he's the obvious
    favorite for #5, but even a favorite can get a nasty virus or crash during the TDF. Keep in
    mind there are now two obvious contenders who would seize an opportunity were it to present
    itself (both Tyler and Jan). It's no longer a race in which there's only one dominant person
    and a large field of possibilities for the other two podium positions.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >
    > > Where's all those Ullrich fans that were here a week ago?
    > >
    > > In order to ride in the TDF...you have to be on a team...
    > >
    > USPS could use Jan, but can they trust him not to be adventurous. He could be a good backup to
    > Heras.
     
  20. "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
    > >
    > > Ullrich has a history of ecstacy, not coke.
    > >
    > A single proven instance does not define a history.

    Semantics.

    His partying last year (there's also the drunk driving) will be taken into consideration by any
    future employer. He's not the most disciplined.
     
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