Ullrich has gone underground and refused internal T-Mobile DNA tests....

[helmutRoole2]

I totally despise what they are doing ("they" being whoever is orchestrating the media frenzy...

It's me. I'm orchestrating it. I stand on a big hill and yell at the journalist below.

"You, over there with the laptop! I need more **** on Ulrich, pronto!"

Anyway, back in 1998 I watched Oscar Camezind win the world professional road race. At the time, his style on the bike, his demeanor, I thought, what a class rider. Then came the EPO positive and his retirement without comment and again I thought, what a class rider. Was I surprised he was doping? Nope. Did it make him less of a cyclist? Not in mind.

The thing that pisses me off is when these hillbillies like Landis and Hamilton and Herras go to their graves swearing they never did PEDs when it seems so obvious that they did. I'm still holding judgement on Landis, but I'm leaning towards doper unless I see some convincing evidence like an explanation for the exogenous testosterone floating around in his blood stream.

 

[foxvi]

I really find the reaction / reporting of the German press astounding. They behave like little lambs being led to the slaughter --

The German press is dreadful but most other jouro's around the world just copy whats put in front of them. Its sensational and they are just lazy, cant be bothered to check facts. The UK cycling press has not questioned any of the accusations around OPuerto and blindly report about the raids this week. No questioning at all. Cyclehereos seems to be the only journo who has actually read and analysed the Opuerto report. (Does anyone know if the report was ever translated into English as I would like a read!)

This morning when I read about DNA collection at Ulle's house not legal in my mind. In Germany and I am sure others will correct me, DNA evidence is only used in major crimes, like murder and rape.

And think about it if the german authorities wanted a blood sample and could do so legally, surely they only need to ask TMO? And also Ulle has a police record when he bashed his car in 2002, again if legal could they not compare his blood sample from that date?

 

[cyclingheroes]

TMO is not allowed to give Ullrichs blood sample to the police. It's forbidden by the privacy act.

But don't worry there are more good journos, it just isn't easy to get it published....

I really find the reaction / reporting of the German press astounding. They behave like little lambs being led to the slaughter --

The German press is dreadful but most other jouro's around the world just copy whats put in front of them. Its sensational and they are just lazy, cant be bothered to check facts. The UK cycling press has not questioned any of the accusations around OPuerto and blindly report about the raids this week. No questioning at all. Cyclehereos seems to be the only journo who has actually read and analysed the Opuerto report. (Does anyone know if the report was ever translated into English as I would like a read!)

This morning when I read about DNA collection at Ulle's house not legal in my mind. In Germany and I am sure others will correct me, DNA evidence is only used in major crimes, like murder and rape.

And think about it if the german authorities wanted a blood sample and could do so legally, surely they only need to ask TMO? And also Ulle has a police record when he bashed his car in 2002, again if legal could they not compare his blood sample from that date?

 

[JohnO]

TMO is not allowed to give Ullrichs blood sample to the police. It's forbidden by the privacy act.

But don't worry there are more good journos, it just isn't easy to get it published....

But they don't forbid the federal swat team from taking samples that may or may not be from Jan.

Wonder if the guys raiding Jan's house were wearing scuba gear... Where's **** Pound when you need him?

 

[cyclingheroes]

But they don't forbid the federal swat team from taking samples that may or may not be from Jan.

Wonder if the guys raiding Jan's house were wearing scuba gear... Where's **** Pound when you need him?

Pound ? We need him as much as McQuaid....

 

[limerickman]

It's all heavily over reacting by the state prosecution. Jan is the most wanted man after Bin Laden at the moment (at least in Germany). It's a witch hunt i've never seen before and to be honest, after this action i don't even care anymore if Jan doped or not! What is with the other athletes on the list, are they treated like this? Why aren't their any investigations against the UCI & co, it's the system which is rotten! Every few years an athlete is confronted with a witch hunt (Pantani!) and the system is not questioned, not at all. The show must go on and with punishing atlethe X we showed we did something. I am angry

CH - thanks for clarifying the German situation re. reporting "offences" to the authorities.
So a private citizen can make an allegation and the bodies of the state can move.
It's different here (and in the USA/Britain) that is why I was surprised at the raid.
But you've given us the answer.

Hard to know what to say to be perfectly honest.
This is very heavyhanded stuff raiding a riders home.
It adds insult to injury that he's on honeymoon when this raid took place.

It could be the case that the German authorities wish to be seen to be whiter than white.
Although this level of interference in JU's life is far more invasive than anything I have ever read about in any other sporting "enquiry", in any other country.
It's worse than Pantani's case if you ask me.

It still doesn't mean that the bag containing blood in Madrid belongs to JU.
Although even if there is no match, I wouldn't blame Jan if he walked away
from this sport.

 

[limerickman]

Where does Pevenage figure in all this?

I know he was fired by TMO.

But is it possible that Pevenage had some type of dealings with Fuentes?
When the story first broke, I put forward the suggestion that if Jan was extracting blood from his system (which is perfectly legal) that perhaps that blood could have found it's way to Fuentes via Pevenage, without JU's knowledge.
Just being devils advocate here.

 

[jhuskey]

Although even if there is no match, I wouldn't blame Jan if he walked away
from this sport.[/QUOTE]

IMO,this is the premise for all this hype. Get him out of the sport! A sad end to a brilliant career.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Although even if there is no match, I wouldn't blame Jan if he walked away
from this sport.
IMO,this is the premise for all this hype. Get him out of the sport! A sad end to a brilliant career.

Bingo!

@Lim: In Germany the problem is that after someone reports a crime thepolice HAVE to move in. It's their choice how to do that, but they have to do it by German law.

 

[Mosaik]

Where does Pevenage figure in all this?

I know he was fired by TMO.

But is it possible that Pevenage had some type of dealings with Fuentes?
When the story first broke, I put forward the suggestion that if Jan was extracting blood from his system (which is perfectly legal) that perhaps that blood could have found it's way to Fuentes via Pevenage, without JU's knowledge.
Just being devils advocate here.

If any of this happened WITHOUT Ullrich's knwledge, he would know NOW. Then why doesn't he just step forward and say so????
Mind you, a lot of people are wondering what Pevenage's role has been in this....

 

[cyclingheroes]

Because of the latest developments (the Ullrich raids and more..) i have split the Puerto article in 2 parts. The first part is online at www.cyclingheroes.info

 

[cyclingheroes]

In tomorrows Sunday edition of Bild state prosecuter Fred Apostel says that his case against Ullrich can take years. he says that Ullrich probebly won't allow him to use the DNA samples and that it can take 2 years just to get the permission to use the DNA samples in court.

http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/sport/aktuell/2006/09/17/ullrich-aufklaerung/ullrich-aufklaerung.html

 

[cyclingheroes]

Here we go again (yes it's becoming tiring...). The chief investigator in Switzerland (Herbert Ammann) said that they didn't took DNA of Jan during the raid. They had permission to take a DNA sample but they couldn't since Jan wasn't home....
http://radsportnews.net/2006/fuentes_1709.shtml

Edit: The original story from Focus:
http://focus.msn.de/sport/radsport/jan-ullrich_nid_35688.html

 

[jhuskey]

Here we go again (yes it's becoming tiring...). The chief investigator in Switzerland (Herbert Ammann) said that they didn't took DNA of Jan during the raid. They had permission to take a DNA sample but they couldn't since Jan wasn't home....
http://radsportnews.net/2006/fuentes_1709.shtml

Edit: The original story from Focus:
http://focus.msn.de/sport/radsport/jan-ullrich_nid_35688.html

And of course they didn't know he was gone. Two choices:

These people are stupid.
These people are corrupt.

 

[cyclingheroes]

And of course they didn't know he was gone. Two choices:

These people are stupid.
These people are corrupt.

Maybe it's forbidden to read newspapers for German- and Swiss cops??

 

[wolfix]

And of course they didn't know he was gone. Two choices:

These people are stupid.
These people are corrupt.

In the beinning of this mudlefuck,I was strongly against Jan stepping up and giving DNA on his own.....But now , if he is innocent, it might the thing to do.

But to throw another "bone in the fire", Maybe Jan has a plan. To me Jan has always been a guy that seems to be a little on the unmotivated side at times. What if he totally innocent and knows once all this is over, he has a major chance to re-coup major money in defamination litigation......[ I don't really believe this, but this case is approching Twilight Zone status as it is.}

 

[cyclingheroes]

Another sign of media ********. McQuaid in an interview with Dutch newspaper Telegraaf (also on Cyclingnews: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/sep06/sep17news): "The best example for this is Jan Ullrich. Between the Tour of Italy and the Tour de France, the Swiss Olympic Committee performed out-of-competition controls every week on him. All the results were negative. But if we believe the Fuentes dossiers, he was taking all these banned substances in that period." Intresting... because the Puerto dossier is made on the basis of papers which were confiscated by the Guardia Civil on May 23, before the end of the Giro. Seems that McQuaid doesn't care much about facts...

 

[limerickman]

Another sign of media ********. McQuaid in an interview with Dutch newspaper Telegraaf (also on Cyclingnews: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/sep06/sep17news): "The best example for this is Jan Ullrich. Between the Tour of Italy and the Tour de France, the Swiss Olympic Committee performed out-of-competition controls every week on him. All the results were negative. But if we believe the Fuentes dossiers, he was taking all these banned substances in that period." Intresting... because the Puerto dossier is made on the basis of papers which were confiscated by the Guardia Civil on May 23, before the end of the Giro. Seems that McQuaid doesn't care much about facts...

McQuaid's comments are strange to say the least.

Ullrich tested 33 times this season - all results negative.
The tests were done by the relevant anti-doping agencies.

In the meantime, OP cites a bag of blood in a Madrid lab - with the name Jan on it (on the bag).

Either way McQuaid's comments are ridiculous : he's either having a go at the testing authorities (on the basis that the 33 tests failed, because OP "links" JU to Fuentes) or he's trying to add weight to the "evidence" presented in OP against JU (and OP dosen't present anything with regard to JU).

I know Pat - I was trained by the guy for 5 years.
He was a good trainer. He should stick to what he's good at.
I do believe that the man is out of his depth - he should never have been made UCI President.

 

[foxvi]

Another sign of media ********. McQuaid in an interview with Dutch newspaper Telegraaf (also on Cyclingnews: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/sep06/sep17news): "The best example for this is Jan Ullrich. Between the Tour of Italy and the Tour de France, the Swiss Olympic Committee performed out-of-competition controls every week on him. All the results were negative. But if we believe the Fuentes dossiers, he was taking all these banned substances in that period." Intresting... because the Puerto dossier is made on the basis of papers which were confiscated by the Guardia Civil on May 23, before the end of the Giro. Seems that McQuaid doesn't care much about facts...

You know I think he may be back tracking: QUOTE 'But if we believe the Fuentes dossiers, he was taking all these banned substances in that period.' I think key words here 'but if we believe the Fuentes dossiers'. Is he at last questioning the report?

 

[cyclingheroes]

You know I think he may be back tracking: QUOTE 'But if we believe the Fuentes dossiers, he was taking all these banned substances in that period.' I think key words here 'but if we believe the Fuentes dossiers'. Is he at last questioning the report?

That's possible but he also might have made his statement to keep all his options open... I don't know... another possibility is that he didn't realize what he actually said (i have that feeling more often if i read McQuaids statements..).

Hmm i don't come any further than specultations.. any other thoughts about McQuaids remarks?