The French cycling federation already have a database of DNA tests.... its only for French riders thou.... they are way ahead of every other nation in this respect....davidbod said:
Ullrich has gone underground and refused internal T-Mobile DNA tests....
- Thread starter whiteboytrash
- Start date
With the GTs and the ProTour going their separate ways, I don't see why the GTs do not just make an entry requirement that riders have to provide DNA samples and permission to use them for doping investigations. It does not look like the UCI is going to lead the way.whiteboytrash said:
Geesh, just how traumatic can a DNA test be? Certainly not physical trauma. Maybe it's the potential trauma of a positive result bursting one's protective bubble that enables one to believe one's own innocence?davidbod said:
I vaguely recall reading about such self-protection, around the time of the OJ Simpson case in the US. According to the threory, someone like OJ really believes they did not do it, the protection is so strong.
For those who can read German a good article on why two German sports lawyers wouldn't advise a client to either make public pronouncements or submit to DNA testsJRMDC said:
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/sport/archiv/19.07.2006/2666256.asp
JRMDC said:
Yes it all looks like excuses for not taking a DNA test. Makes you wonder considering a simple DNA sample would prove one way or another definitively without doubt whether either were involved in Operation Puerto. I think this is why they will be labelled as guilty until they provide their DNA sample.
One other interesting thing I read yesterday was that there appears to be a link between Dr. Fuentes and Dr. Cecini who is Ullrich's medical advisor. If memory serves I think Cecini was also Tyler's Dr.
I think Cecchini probably now uses the same business model as Dr. Ferrari. He provides the advice and instructions but no longer provides the drugs himself. For that his clients go to Fuentes or another similar operation. I don't think any clients of Ferrari were caught up in this scandal, so they must be using another operation. If we are lucky the other Spanish operation is under surveillance as we speak. Perhaps fear of this is what has led some riders and teams to forego some of their Tour preparation.davidbod said:
At first I thought that the evidence against Basso was weak and he would slip the noose, but now that his lawyer has started up with the B.S. about DNA testing not being 100% accurate and other excuses for not trying to prove 'Birillo''s blood is not Basso's, I think Basso is done for. The same goes for Ullrich.
Thanks. Babelfish didn't do to bad a job of translating this time. An important argument is that JU's blood could have gotten to Spain through other means than direct delivery in Jan's body, someone could have gotten a hold of a sample and taken it there, and the test does not defend against that. A positive test in that circumstance would be extremely difficult to defend in the court of public opinion, were JU to be actually innocent.bauerfan said:
Against that particular point, one could ask why an amount of blood, not a sample but a full unit of transfusion, would exist in Germany to begin with. There is a difference between getting a trace of DNA into a crime scene and getting an entire bag of blood, the latter requres the blood to be bagged already. (Does JU keep frozen blood in case of emergency trauma surgery? The possibilities are endless, speculation can really go out of control...
)
JRMDC said:Thanks. Babelfish didn't do to bad a job of translating this time. An important argument is that JU's blood could have gotten to Spain through other means than direct delivery in Jan's body, someone could have gotten a hold of a sample and taken it there, and the test does not defend against that. A positive test in that circumstance would be extremely difficult to defend in the court of public opinion, were JU to be actually innocent.
Against that particular point, one could ask why an amount of blood, not a sample but a full unit of transfusion, would exist in Germany to begin with. There is a difference between getting a trace of DNA into a crime scene and getting an entire bag of blood, the latter requres the blood to be bagged already. (Does JU keep frozen blood in case of emergency trauma surgery? The possibilities are endless, speculation can really go out of control...
That's a pretty weak arguement. The odds of a stray sample being at Fuente's lab and being there under innocent circumsatnces is extrememly remote. Balance that against an immediate and unequivocale proof of innocense by simply providing a DNA sample, and it seems rediculous not to simply provide the DNA sample.
I've been saying for a while now that it only makes sense to me (from a public opinion viewpoint) that they would do the test. I think they're all hiding behind technicalities...which I think just tends to make "fans" that much more suspicious.davidbod said:
Lance has done the same thing (in my opinion).
Interesting comments from another rider. I think this shows that not everyone is doping, and the that the riders also think refusing to take the DNA test is not acceptable.
Aldag on Ullrich: "Sometimes we wondered"
What goes on behind closed doors? Even teammates and friends don't always know. Rolf Aldag rode with Jan Ullrich for ten years, and often shared a room with him. But not always, and roommates don't spend all their time together. "Jan often had a single room. And when he shared a double room with a teammate, he would have had time" to use doping products or procedures, Aldag said in an interview on www.sport1.de. "He would often be alone for an hour with a helper in his room. And his roommate wouldn't kick the door in, of course, he would just disappear. Sometimes we wondered what was up when we saw strangers hanging around the hallway."
What does Aldag think of Ullrich's explanations so far? "Not much. Jan must do the DNA test. Then if he was found innocent he could say, 'See!' What he is doing now is not acceptable."
Aldag also speculated over a possible role of Rudy Pevenage in a doping scheme. "Pevenage was always linked very closely to Jan and their ties became even stronger after the change to Coast at the end of 2002. Pevenage bound himself more and more to Jan. And as the pressure increased with the expected battle with Ivan Basso for the Tour victory, perhaps Pevenage lost his nerve. How shall Jan have gotten in contact with the Spaniards? He can't speak the language and would have needed someone to act as middleman."
Courtesy of Susan Westemeyer
Aldag on Ullrich: "Sometimes we wondered"
What goes on behind closed doors? Even teammates and friends don't always know. Rolf Aldag rode with Jan Ullrich for ten years, and often shared a room with him. But not always, and roommates don't spend all their time together. "Jan often had a single room. And when he shared a double room with a teammate, he would have had time" to use doping products or procedures, Aldag said in an interview on www.sport1.de. "He would often be alone for an hour with a helper in his room. And his roommate wouldn't kick the door in, of course, he would just disappear. Sometimes we wondered what was up when we saw strangers hanging around the hallway."
What does Aldag think of Ullrich's explanations so far? "Not much. Jan must do the DNA test. Then if he was found innocent he could say, 'See!' What he is doing now is not acceptable."
Aldag also speculated over a possible role of Rudy Pevenage in a doping scheme. "Pevenage was always linked very closely to Jan and their ties became even stronger after the change to Coast at the end of 2002. Pevenage bound himself more and more to Jan. And as the pressure increased with the expected battle with Ivan Basso for the Tour victory, perhaps Pevenage lost his nerve. How shall Jan have gotten in contact with the Spaniards? He can't speak the language and would have needed someone to act as middleman."
Courtesy of Susan Westemeyer
The cyclim team has no own spokesperson, the company is controlling the whole team (at TM it was always like that)musette said:
I would suggest Aldag should have spoken when he was a rider... not now where he is doing PR for TM (the company). I like Rolf a lot but...davidbod said:
Anyway he is not the only one, politicians are also demanding a DNA test from Jan, Monthy Python becomes real..
This thing is totally out of control (at least in Germany).
The interview with Aldag has been withdrawn due to 'misunderstandings'.http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul20news4davidbod said:
I'm getting really worried about the way the German press are hounding Ulle after the what happened to Pantani when the Italian press did the same with him.
Btw, Fuentes is in court today. Doubt we'll have any new revelations however.
If you read Matt Rendell's latest book "The death of Marco Pantani" he details how Pantani was diagnosed with a severe mental illness and was asked by his doctors to stop riding. The book also shows some of his paintings... weird and really out there… he even did one of Lance Armstrong ! Great book if you can get hold of it and only released a few weeks ago...Bro Deal said:
Ullrich's laywers moved quickly on that one ! I think the comment was out of order. Ullrich a star rider like Armstrong. Of course they had their own rooms. Of course they closed the door ! I mean Jesus, everytime you close a door does it mean you are attaching a testosterone patch to your scrotum ?!
alibat said:
